Examining the Twins Position Player-wise

[DocBauer]

Can we just get this out of the way? I know...you know...we ALL know the Twins need pitching help. Were it possible to drain internet ink wells dry and call out "Boy...more ink!" we'd all have soar throats, or at least tired fingers. This is about the state, status, and possibilities of the Twins in regard to position players. Though I do understand overlap as it pertains to potential trade moves, immediately, or, down the road.

 

But after two quality wins against the hated dirty-sox, (note no capital letters there), and the disappointing series against the Tribe, I've been doing some reflecting on the other side of the roster coin, so to speak. Maybe looking for positivity? Maybe just for fun? Maybe for perspective? Maybe all? But I think it's an important discussion being left out with all the angst about the pitching staff.

 

Just ONE POINT I'd like to make from my soapbox...for just a moment, if I could...and he'll, I started the thread so why not! Most of us, (note I didn't use the dreaded word "ALL") have been clamoring for the Twins to move on with the rebuild and play the youngsters. Well, positionally speaking, they are. And IMHO, I find it a bit absurd that many are clamoring for trades and devotions of said young players because they are not already performing as all star talents. Really? I mean...really??

 

Off my soapbox, without pulling or twisting anything...and I'm impressed considering a rash of recent, weird injuries, let's get on with our look-see at the roster, positionally speaking, shall we?

 

CATCHER:

 

Castro: pick all the nits you want to, (And I wish someone would explain that eufanism to me some day), but he has clearly provided some of the best overall game calling and catching we've seen in some time. He only just turned the ancient age of 30. His AVG is about what we expected, his OB is solid, he has some power, but he's here for his work behind the plate. He's here for at least 2 more years and he's definitely been an upgrade.

 

Giminez: A good guy, a good clubhouse guy. Solid behind the plate. His OB and OPS, as of now, are higher than Castro. He can fill in here and there. But when your backup catcher is perhaps the most easily replaceable player on your team, it's not such a bad thing.

 

Garver: Nobody has ever said Garver was the second coming of Mauer. But at 26, he is not really old for a prospect, especially for a catcher. By all reports he is solid behind the plate, has a good arm, and he's a quality hitter, especially for a catcher, with pop. Were it not for the signing of Giminez...probably a smart one at that...he might already be up. He also has positional flexibility to some degree, but may lack the posting entertainment of Giminez throwing in a pop-up role. But unless we are just missing something, he and his AAA OPS of .841 and good arm will be up eventually.

 

INFIELD:

 

Mauer: I don't know if it's time removed from concussions, new sunglasses or biopic replacement parts, but he suddenly looks like the Mauer of old these days. Most days at least. Let's hope it continues for now, and 2018, and bid him a loud ovation after 2018 because at age 34 right now, he's just not in long term plans. So let's get to the rest of the infield.

 

Vargas: Man, I just don't know. But has there even been a guy who has been jerked up and down, in and out, more than Vargas? Despite some SO numbers over his ML and milb numbers he has also shown the ability to hit, provide power and RIB, and even take some BB. Not even 27 until August, and seeing what he is capable of, what are the Twins afraid of here? That they might find a quality player who can hit, provide power and RIB? (Shudder)

 

Dozier: The "ancient" and sure to cease being a quality player very soon Dozier is only 30. He's a quality player. Prone to streaks, absolutely. But he's a nice player with a lot of ability. He's also the most easily replaceable player due to sudden depth in the system should a real and viable trade partner surface.

 

Polanco: He is only 23. 24 in July. Remember how he couldn't play AS? He's been excellent at SS. He's made numerous offensive contributions in addition to his defense and has been one of the toughest batters to SO. He's been a hitting machine most of his milb career. AS or 2B, this is a very talented young man. And I've read a few posts recently where he should be demoted, traded, replaced, etc. Really? This kid has an "it" factor. Can we give him more than his first full ML season to pass judgement?

 

Escobar and Adrianza: I include them together. Both super old at 28 and 27. Who on earth would want a versatile, solid, utility player with good defense at multiple positions who could hit, run, and in Escobar's case, hit with some power as well? Healthy, Escobar has been good to borderline outstanding whether you regard him as a utility player or starter. (Contextnjs important here). Adrianza has proven to be a find.

 

Gordon, Vielma and Goodrum: Prospects, so I'm bunching them together. Not the biggest fan of Gordon when drafted, despite pedigree because scouting numbers didn't have me overly excited, I have become a fan and believer. He had a really nice 2016, a tremendous ALF, and has shown huge ability and improvement in 2017 at AA. Everything from work ethic to production screams this kid is a budding player and top prospect. By all accounts Vielma is a wizard with the glove, will make some contact, will take a BB, and can run. What could he do/become With an extra whopper or two to bulk up even a little bit? Goodrum is a bit of a dark horse I admit, often forgot about these past few years. But after injury setbacks, he had a nice rise at AA in 2016. His first taste of AAA ball in 2017 is somewhat mediocre, but there is ability, speed and power and positional flexibility to think he could become what we hoped DanSan might become.

 

Remember just a couple years ago when the Twins had nobody to play the infield?

 

OUTFIELD:

 

Buxton: Don't you have to start here? Only 23 until December. Absolutely OOZES potential and ability. Fast tracked through the system despite missing games via injury. Just scratching his potential. Imagine where he could be in a year? Or two at most?

 

Kepler: Watching him, the ease in which he seems to do everything, especially concerning his initial learning curve, is there any doubt the 24yo Kepler doesn't have some of the best ability, smooth stroke, and potential of any of the young Twins?

 

Rosario: OK. Fine! He's wild. He's undisciplined and a bad ball hitter. (So we're Oliva and Puckett-just saying). He plays great defense with a great arm but makes some bad mistakes at times. Ummm....hes immensely talented, loves to play the game, and has tremendous potential. He's never going to be perfect. He may never be what Buxton and Kepler might be, but that doesn't mean he can't be very, very good.

 

Grossman: VASTLY improved with the glove, only 27 and finding himself, has pop, decent speed, can hit, work the count and take BB. An aberration? Perhaps. But I see a quality hitter just finding himself at age 26-27.

 

Granite, Palka and Wade: Granite "gets it". He understands his role and his ability. He knows and understands what he is and what he can do. And he dies it exceedingly well. Does it translate to the ML? I really think it might. But right now, I wouldn't jump him ahead of the very talented 3 starting for the Twins. I would not dismiss Palka too easily. His recent injury has set him back. But he's a solid athlete with the ability to potentially play 3 spots. Power is his calling card, but he's shown some ability as a hitter at all levels, with some ability to take BB. Wade needs time and some patience. He might even need the full season at AA, but I think comparisons to Lawton are not without merit.

 

So that's the positional player makeup as of now. Yes, there's a lot of talent and potential in the low minors that bear earnest watching. But from a positional player point of view, this is what we are looking at now and going immediately forward. And I would say it's exciting and enticing. TWO guys over 30, Mauer and Giminez. TWO guys at 30, Castro and Dozier.

 

What do you see? I'm optimistic. Are You? How do you see all of this fitting together?

[amjgt]

Enjoyed the article.

 

One critique is all of the abbreviations. And the autocorrect made it worse.

[DocBauer]

Sorry...just too much going on and too long of a day. I should have checked the auto correct better. Sincere apologies to all.

[Bill Brown69]

I love this. Positive spin for once. Fact is we can win the World Series with the lineup we have now. Give us a bit better pitching and a couple years seasoning and,,,,,,,,,,,,,, back to back????????????

[HitInAPinch]

So, Vargas can hit and makes great RIBs??  Where does the line start???    

[The Wise One]

Oliva and Puckett may have been free swingers but had a 9.7 and 12.3 % K rates.  They hit what was close. Rosario does not. 

[rdehring]

Thank you for saying what I have been thinking for some time. I have no problem going into next year with the exact same 13 players. Having Granite, Vielema, Garver at AAA working to force themselves onto the team is great depth.

 

Now, the pitching needs some work. Maybe one or two of the position players will need to be part of that solution.

[Blackjack]

I liked your comparison of Rosario to Oliva and Puckett!!! 

 

I hate to nitpick but you left out the big man at third and any possible replacements if he gets hurt. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see how all these young guys look 5 years from now!!!

[DocBauer]

I liked your comparison of Rosario to Oliva and Puckett!!! 

 

I hate to nitpick but you left out the big man at third and any possible replacements if he gets hurt. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see how all these young guys look 5 years from now!!!

Sorry about that. I had problems connecting last night and lost a brief comment about how even Sano, for all his numbers and play, has room to improve and will do so. I probably should have given up and just waited to post until today. Lol

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Good positive article. I enjoyed your assessments. Thanks.

[Blackjack]

 

Sorry about that. I had problems connecting last night and lost a brief comment about how even Sano, for all his numbers and play, has room to improve and will do so. I probably should have given up and just waited to post until today. Lol

I don't know if anyone else has a problem replying but it seems like sometimes that the screen can't keep up with my typing -- and I'm not a very fast typist. Then you end up with more errors that you have to go back and correct.

 

Good positive article.

[drjim]

 

Sorry about that. I had problems connecting last night and lost a brief comment about how even Sano, for all his numbers and play, has room to improve and will do so. I probably should have given up and just waited to post until today. Lol

 

I agree on Sano. He is a (relatively) slight decrease in his k rate away from being on another level.

[kab21]

I am quite optimistic about the Twins offense and that increases my motivation to add pitching.

 

I will group this differently and in summary form

 

Potentially elite players (near elite already)

Sano - he is awesome. I predict the K rate to decrease a little but the the drop in BAPIP (down to .360's or so) will cancel out (or more) any statistical improvement.

 

Very good players already

Dozier

Kepler - potential to move up a tier

Grossman sneaks in here - productive hitter

 

Competent players with little upside

Castro - excellent addition this year

Mauer - overpaid but it doesn't bother me

Escobar - could be a starter and a great backup

 

Hitters with potential to fill out the Twins lineup - this is the group that needs a few more players to step forward

Buxton - can he hit?

Rosario - the next Jacque Jones - frustrating to watch but solid results overall

Vargas - Could be a .260/.340/.475/.815 30 HR DH - hasn't done it yet though

Polanco - struggling right now but he can hit and will be fine

 

The upper levels don't have impact hitting prospects but there are several guys that could fill holes if needed.

 

 

[Doomtints]

 

I am quite optimistic about the Twins offense and that increases my motivation to add pitching.

 

I will group this differently and in summary form

 

Potentially elite players (near elite already)

Sano - he is awesome. I predict the K rate to decrease a little but the the drop in BAPIP (down to .360's or so) will cancel out (or more) any statistical improvement.

 

Very good players already

Dozier

Kepler - potential to move up a tier

Grossman sneaks in here - productive hitter

 

Competent players with little upside

Castro - excellent addition this year

Mauer - overpaid but it doesn't bother me

Escobar - could be a starter and a great backup

 

Hitters with potential to fill out the Twins lineup - this is the group that needs a few more players to step forward

Buxton - can he hit?

Rosario - the next Jacque Jones - frustrating to watch but solid results overall

Vargas - Could be a .260/.340/.475/.815 30 HR DH - hasn't done it yet though

Polanco - struggling right now but he can hit and will be fine

 

The upper levels don't have impact hitting prospects but there are several guys that could fill holes if needed.

 

This might be over-analyzing. When you consider their ages, the Twins starting hitting right now is good enough, excepting Buxton and Polanco. They are thin when it comes to speed and could use another power bat.  The rest of the guys are good enough now and, excepting Mauer, Dozier, and Grossman, should get better. As you said, Polanco will get better and Buxton will probably be good enough someday.

 

Defensively they seem to have figured things out.  

I have complete trust in the Twins position players, they look a lot like the early 00s bunch.

[yarnivek1972]

Regarding a player who was jerked up and down and in and out. Yeah, Michael Cuddyer springs instantly to mind. He also endured multiple position changes at the MLB level. Didn't get 500 PA in a season until age 27. Guess what? Flourished when he finally was allowed to play everyday. Went from a high 90 OPS+ to about 120 for the rest of his career. Not bad considering most of the rest of his career was on the downside of 30.

 

But that's the Twins way.

[ashbury]

Castro: pick all the nits you want to, (And I wish someone would explain that eufanism to me some day),

Nits are the eggs and/or babies of lice. Being very small, it takes great attention to fine detail to remove them.

 

http://www.theloop.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/nitpick.jpg

[yarnivek1972]

Like the analysis in general.

[gunnarthor]

Yeah, our offensive nucleus is very good. I'd like to see Kepler and Buxton step up more but I think it'll happen. Not sure when.

[DocBauer]

Maybe it's time for this thread to die. Maybe not. But I've been reflecting again about the roster after the Cleveland series/sweep, including a game/win that had a winning lineup that felt like a getaway day with all the guys hurt or sick, recent trade conversations and a thread about Granite.

 

Again, I apologize for all the typos and such, but I was having some connection issues. But the content and intent remains true, this 13 man roster has been largely intact and productive, both offensively and defensively, throughout the season. And the best news may be how much better the young players are going to develop. I know the ML player roster is pretty much set at 13. But there are 20 players listed for 13 spots either on the ML roster, or excelling, or at least playing well, at AAA and AA and all but 1 at AAA or deserving or a soon promotion to AAA. I find this exciting to think about.

 

And if the Twins DO become buyers at some point this season, next off season at the latest, it would seem they have the depth to make such a move, positionally speaking at least. If Dozier were traded for a couple young players, either to be used in a trade or to bring back prospects to replace those we included in a trade, we have depth to replace him in the short term, and with Gordon and Vielma, in the long term. Same with Rosario. Now, I'm not anxious to move either guy, but I've just been reflecting the past couple of days on today and tomorrow, possible trade and depth options, and just felt mentioning it again.

[The Wise One]

 

This might be over-analyzing. When you consider their ages, the Twins starting hitting right now is good enough, excepting Buxton and Polanco. They are thin when it comes to speed and could use another power bat.  The rest of the guys are good enough now and, excepting Mauer, Dozier, and Grossman, should get better. As you said, Polanco will get better and Buxton will probably be good enough someday.

 

Defensively they seem to have figured things out.  

I have complete trust in the Twins position players, they look a lot like the early 00s bunch.

Twins hitting is good enough as a team to rank as middle of the pack

[The Wise One]

 

Maybe it's time for this thread to die. Maybe not. But I've been reflecting again about the roster after the Cleveland series/sweep, including a game/win that had a winning lineup that felt like a getaway day with all the guys hurt or sick, recent trade conversations and a thread about Granite.

Again, I apologize for all the typos and such, but I was having some connection issues. But the content and intent remains true, this 13 man roster has been largely intact and productive, both offensively and defensively, throughout the season. And the best news may be how much better the young players are going to develop. I know the ML player roster is pretty much set at 13. But there are 20 players listed for 13 spots either on the ML roster, or excelling, or at least playing well, at AAA and AA and all but 1 at AAA or deserving or a soon promotion to AAA. I find this exciting to think about.

And if the Twins DO become buyers at some point this season, next off season at the latest, it would seem they have the depth to make such a move, positionally speaking at least. If Dozier were traded for a couple young players, either to be used in a trade or to bring back prospects to replace those we included in a trade, we have depth to replace him in the short term, and with Gordon and Vielma, in the long term. Same with Rosario. Now, I'm not anxious to move either guy, but I've just been reflecting the past couple of days on today and tomorrow, possible trade and depth options, and just felt mentioning it again.

Positivity dies quickly on Twins Daily. Sorry I don't do GIFs and emojis so people can tell this is meant to be a joke.

[Doomtints]

 

Twins hitting is good enough as a team to rank as middle of the pack

 

And their defense is #2.

[Brandon]

While Mauer is a good hitter and defense is really good too. He is now what Mientkiewicz strived to be. His bat plays well off the bench and the lineup would be better served with another power threat in the lineup

[gunnarthor]

I don't mind someone else getting at-bats over Mauer but that someone shouldn't be Vargas. I'd rather have Mauer and his high on-base skills in the lineup.

[bluechipper]

What this lineup is missing is one more guy that the other team doesn't want to pitch to. Vargas and his .264 OBP isn't really that (I'm not sure if this is a fluke or what the reason is for the lack of BBs). 

[The Wise One]

 

And their defense is #2.

number 4 in DRS, Number 8 in UZR150.  Quality defense, ranking depends on metric used.