International Draft Close to Becoming a Reality?

[Vanimal46]

The CBA is up for renegotiation after this season. One of the things being discussed, and reportedly closer than ever before, is implementing an International Draft.

 

"Buster Olney reports that, as the proposal currently stands, the draft would begin in March of 2018. It would last ten rounds. The minimum age for draft-eligible players would be 18 years old by 2021. Signing bonuses would be pegged at an amount roughly corresponding to the current slots U.S., Canadian and Puerto Rican players receive when drafted today."

Craig Calcaterra is arguing against this idea, as this takes away their freedoms to negotiate on the free market. 

 

Your thoughts?

[Mike Sixel]

I hate the draft in sports, from a player's perspective it is bad, bad, bad.

 

I love the draft in sports, as it protects low revenue teams and probably helps bad teams.

 

I would like a hybrid, where bad teams get more money to sign potential players than good teams, and everyone can negotiate and do what they want. Say, the worst 5 teams get a pool of $15MM, the next 5 get $10MM, and the next 20 get $7MM. You get to choose to sign a couple guys for a ton of money, or sign a whole lot of good guys. The players get to choose where they live and work. (those numbers are made up, it would require thought). 

 

As for the current international system, it is rife with issues, and is so bad that even KLAW, who hates drafts more than I, thinks this might be a good thing.

[biggentleben]

 

I hate the draft in sports, from a player's perspective it is bad, bad, bad.

 

I love the draft in sports, as it protects low revenue teams and probably helps bad teams.

 

I would like a hybrid, where bad teams get more money to sign potential players than good teams, and everyone can negotiate and do what they want. Say, the worst 5 teams get a pool of $15MM, the next 5 get $10MM, and the next 20 get $7MM. You get to choose to sign a couple guys for a ton of money, or sign a whole lot of good guys. The players get to choose where they live and work. (those numbers are made up, it would require thought). 

 

As for the current international system, it is rife with issues, and is so bad that even KLAW, who hates drafts more than I, thinks this might be a good thing.

 

So you're a big fan of the current draft, I imagine?

[Mike Sixel]

No, not even a little....because they get to pick players. There is no freedom at all.

 

Did you really read that, because having a pool to spend on draft picks is not even close to having a pool to spend on free agents.

 

Sigh.

[biggentleben]

 

No, not even a little....because they get to pick players. There is no freedom at all.

 

Did you really read that, because having a pool to spend on draft picks is not even close to having a pool to spend on free agents.

 

Sigh.

 

If you truly think Jason Groome is a member of the Boston Red Sox because he was the 12th best player in the draft, I have some oceanside property here in South Dakota to sell you.

 

The way the money works early in the draft now does allow for exactly that to happen. It still forces that the team with the most money was Philadelphia, so for Groome to go to Boston, he had to be willing to take less money.

[Mike Sixel]

 

If you truly think Jason Groome is a member of the Boston Red Sox because he was the 12th best player in the draft, I have some oceanside property here in South Dakota to sell you.

 

The way the money works early in the draft now does allow for exactly that to happen. It still forces that the team with the most money was Philadelphia, so for Groome to go to Boston, he had to be willing to take less money.

 

He still didn't get to choose, and that's 1 player. What about the other 1000 players?

 

I don't like the draft for players. It is very much not even close to a free market. 

[biggentleben]

 

He still didn't get to choose, and that's 1 player. What about the other 1000 players?

 

I don't like the draft for players. It is very much not even close to a free market. 

 

He did choose. From many in the game, he did choose. They knew where he was going two days before the draft.

 

Free agency isn't a free market, either. If  30 of the top 40 guys want to play for the Twins, no way the Twins could afford all of them, so someone is going to be shifted out due to financial issues.

 

I would like to see draft picks trade-able, and I do think that would help with making the process better, but I personally don't see a "free market" option anywhere near viable and actually being much, much worse for balance of the sport.

[Vanimal46]

I'm on board with trading draft picks in the MLB and International Drafts. It'd be another avenue that rebuilding teams can explore to improve their team.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He did choose. From many in the game, he did choose. They knew where he was going two days before the draft.

 

Free agency isn't a free market, either. If  30 of the top 40 guys want to play for the Twins, no way the Twins could afford all of them, so someone is going to be shifted out due to financial issues.

 

I would like to see draft picks trade-able, and I do think that would help with making the process better, but I personally don't see a "free market" option anywhere near viable and actually being much, much worse for balance of the sport.

 

Uh, the lack of the Twins being able to sign every player or not is no different than any other company having budgets.....

 

Why would it be less balanced, if you give more money to the worst teams? I'd argue it would be faster for the Twins to rebuild, if they could convince three elite players to come here, than to get 1, and a 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder.....but, the teams would be incented to have good minor league systems, to show players they move players quickly and train and develop them well, etc......

[kab21]

The stupid thing is that the only thing they need to do is to make a hard(er) cap for the bonus pool. Right now the penalty for exceeding the cap is a slap on the wrist.

[biggentleben]

 

Uh, the lack of the Twins being able to sign every player or not is no different than any other company having budgets.....

 

Why would it be less balanced, if you give more money to the worst teams? I'd argue it would be faster for the Twins to rebuild, if they could convince three elite players to come here, than to get 1, and a 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder.....but, the teams would be incented to have good minor league systems, to show players they move players quickly and train and develop them well, etc......

 

This isn't football or basketball. It is incredibly rare that a player comes from college, even, ready to play immediately. Yes, we've seen Bregman and Swanson this year, but that's by far the exception, not the norm. That's the college guys. High school guys and international guys take multiple years to get to the major leagues. I'm writing up the Braves top 100 prospect list right now. I just put a player in the top 20 of a very deep system that was signed for so little that I cannot find his signing bonus anywhere while the player who received the biggest bonus from the Braves that particular season has already failed out of the minor leagues, was released by the Braves this year, and no one picked him up.

 

Baseball is a very different market, which is why this a big difference than any other sport and why a free market system really screws up teams as bad as it helps them.

 

If it were football, where a big pool could allow the Cleveland Browns to get that QB they needed along with 3 linemen they prefer and suddenly they have an offense for their NFL team, that'd be different. The 76ers with a big budget purchasing two-three starters could become a playoff team the next season. Baseball doesn't have that ability in amateur acquisition.

[biggentleben]

 

The stupid thing is that the only thing they need to do is to make a hard(er) cap for the bonus pool. Right now the penalty for exceeding the cap is a slap on the wrist.

 

And even less this season, which is why you saw a record number go over this year. They'll likely have one year of penalty and then have a draft.

 

It is still 3 years without being able to exceed payment that basically takes you out of the running for anyone of decent talent level. This year's 2016 class saw no top 25 ranked player sign for an amount that a punished team could afford and only one player on the BA top 50 sign for a price that a punished team could afford.

[gunnarthor]

I generally agree with Mike and I like the pooling idea although as the Red Sox and Rangers showed, there will be some issues with that.

 

But I do think that the draft might help fix some of the chaos happening in the DR. 

[kab21]

 

I generally agree with Mike and I like the pooling idea although as the Red Sox and Rangers showed, there will be some issues with that.

 

But I do think that the draft might help fix some of the chaos happening in the DR. 

The bonus pool recommendations were completely ineffective as the Red Sox and Rangers showed. Why is a draft needed instead of a hard(er) cap?

[Mike Sixel]

BTW, I'm talking about EVERY player being in the pool, not just international players.....And, yes, a hard cap.

[dgwills]

 

The stupid thing is that the only thing they need to do is to make a hard(er) cap for the bonus pool. Right now the penalty for exceeding the cap is a slap on the wrist.

I'd agree with this. MLB teams made a mockery of the current system due to the lax rules, but that doesn't mean its a bad system. When dealing with 16 year old prospects there are a number of strategies teams could use. A draft would force every team to use the same strategy and allocate their resources according to those guidelines. Takes a lot away from the game.

If you were talking about older players I'd be more amenable to a draft format. Considering the realities of many Latin American countries though, it doesn't seem like a viable option.

[Mr. Brooks]

He still didn't get to choose, and that's 1 player. What about the other 1000 players?

 

I don't like the draft for players. It is very much not even close to a free market.

Nobody is forcing any player to sign with the team that drafts them.

They can sit out a year. Or, Japan, Korea and Mexico are options. As is independent leagues.

They have plenty of options if they aren't willing to put in 6 or 7 years of service time before they get full free agency.

[dxpavelka]

 

He still didn't get to choose, and that's 1 player. What about the other 1000 players?

 

I don't like the draft for players. It is very much not even close to a free market. 

Sports is not a free market entity.  If it were you 'd have a few big market teams as the only ones able to compete and eventually as the only ones to exist.  Baseball is the closest of the major sports to being a free market.  And look at what you have in the final 4:  3 huge markets and one relatively small one.  Totally in favor of an international draft but don't know why it would have to be a separate draft-just include them in the current draft.  Problem solved.

[gunnarthor]

One other thing to consider/concern would be exactly how much talent is out there in any individual year?   Not every draft is going to be as loaded as the 2011/2012 years were. There probably is some validity to concerns that certain teams would amass the best talent period if there aren't controls on how amateur players are selected.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sports is not a free market entity.  If it were you 'd have a few big market teams as the only ones able to compete and eventually as the only ones to exist.  Baseball is the closest of the major sports to being a free market.  And look at what you have in the final 4:  3 huge markets and one relatively small one.  Totally in favor of an international draft but don't know why it would have to be a separate draft-just include them in the current draft.  Problem solved.

 

What does this have to do with the proposal to change from a draft to a pool of money system?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Nobody is forcing any player to sign with the team that drafts them.
They can sit out a year. Or, Japan, Korea and Mexico are options. As is independent leagues.
They have plenty of options if they aren't willing to put in 6 or 7 years of service time before they get full free agency.

 

Is this an actual argument against giving players more freedom? I can't tell if serious.

[Mr. Brooks]

Is this an actual argument against giving players more freedom? I can't tell if serious.

I'm saying they have plenty of choices even with a draft.

MLB is a private organization. Nobody has a "right" to play in it.

There are many jobs out there that may require you to temporarily relocate to a city that wouldn't be your first choice.

At that point you make a decision, you accept it or find a new job. Nobody is restricting your freedom in any way.

Sure, you may have to take less money by turning it down and going to a different company, but that was still a choice.

 

If the league wants to eliminate the draft, fine, I have no problem with that.

But I don't see a problem with the draft either.

[Thrylos]

Re: the freedom of players: Players are free not to sign.

 

I do like the idea of a draft instead of the current IFA system for many reasons but there are things I would change.

Reasons I prefer a draft:

- The current proposal to get the age up to 18 is huge, because it will cut the middlemen and all kids will get the same exposure to all teams via MLB-led academies and the kids will learn the language as well, so they will get an education, drafted or not.  

- The goal has been so far to "hide" players from other teams and limit exposure, so you can sign them for small bonuses.  Some middlemen did that wholesale with certain teams.  Middlemen and not players get benefits from that situation.

- Puts every team on the same page, plus 2 more years of players to determine whether they are good enough or not

 

 

What I would change:

 

- One single draft (40 rounds are enough) for all amateur players like the NFL and NBA.  This way everyone will compete for the same money.

- Get rid of caps (got to give something to players)

- All picks are tradeable, including during the draft, like the NFL (fun to see teams  hoarding 20+ round picks and try to rebuild that way.)

 

Just some quick thoughts.  

 

 

[biggentleben]

Every single year there are first-round picks that don't sign with the team that drafts them, in spite of (often) a 7-figure signing bonus being offered. The current draft slotting system has drastically decreased that and actually allowed for more parity in the funds for teams (and we've seen more parity in the performance of small vs. large market teams in the time of the current CBA). Is it perfect? No. However, a complete free market system would essentially eliminate the existence of the Twins, along with any other team without the financial wherewithal to spend big after a massive pool of players.

 

Free market works until you see a new advantage found by teams. Most recently it's been the arbitration extension. They buy out a guy's arbitration years and then a year or two of free agency. That has led to drastically watered-down free agent markets and extreme prices on the trade market (see: Shelby Miller in the winter, relievers this summer). There will be a way for the market to find to exploit any system in place...

[Vanimal46]

I'd be interested to see how PBO's and GM's value draft picks if they do decide to trade them like the other big sports leagues do. Prospects are the highest valued currency to trade right now in the league. Would there be a time where a 1st round draft pick is valued more than prospects? 

For the Twins we've been talking about the potential of trading Dozier... Would he warrant multiple 1st round picks if that's the route the Twins decided to go?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Every single year there are first-round picks that don't sign with the team that drafts them, in spite of (often) a 7-figure signing bonus being offered. The current draft slotting system has drastically decreased that and actually allowed for more parity in the funds for teams (and we've seen more parity in the performance of small vs. large market teams in the time of the current CBA). Is it perfect? No. However, a complete free market system would essentially eliminate the existence of the Twins, along with any other team without the financial wherewithal to spend big after a massive pool of players.

 

Free market works until you see a new advantage found by teams. Most recently it's been the arbitration extension. They buy out a guy's arbitration years and then a year or two of free agency. That has led to drastically watered-down free agent markets and extreme prices on the trade market (see: Shelby Miller in the winter, relievers this summer). There will be a way for the market to find to exploit any system in place...

 

Just curious, where did I say totally free market?

 

I said pools, I said hard caps, I said no such thing as "totally free market".

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

Just curious, where did I say totally free market?

 

I said pools, I said hard caps, I said no such thing as "totally free market".

 

You didn't. The post directly above the post you quoted brought out the idea of no caps.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I hate the draft in sports, from a player's perspective it is bad, bad, bad.

 

I love the draft in sports, as it protects low revenue teams and probably helps bad teams.

 

Well put, and I completely agree.

[Seth Stohs]

I'm not against an international draft at all, but I would want to see the details before judging it. 

 

I do think it would help keep teams on an even playing field (yes, as much as the current mlb draft does due to loopholes). Don't forget that it was Houston who has done the most with their allotted funds in recent drafts. 

 

I'd be curious how the MLB 'academies' would be set up. Do people have to 'enroll' there and if they suddenly aren't viewed as a 'prospect' anymore, what happens? 

 

Which countries would be included, and which wouldn't be? No way Japan or Taiwan or Korea agree to being involved in this. Australia would probably, but I don't know.

 

I'd look at all of the international signings (that fit under the current rules) stack up. HOw many $2+ million signing bonuses? HOw many $1 million? How many $500K, etc? I'd use that to help set up the "slotting" amounts. I would want to make sure that the next system is better for players than it currently is. 

 

If there are ten rounds, like they mentioned, that's 300 draft players -99.9% of whom would certainly sign. I'd want to make sure that the 300th player drafted makes a good amount. I don't know if that's $100K like the MLB's tenth round slot. I would also make sure that it's a hard slot so that there aren't the shenanigans. There also needs to be an agreement on what to allow for players not drafted. Do they get $10K? Are they any amount from $1 to whatever the 300th player gets?

 

I do think there can be a way to do this that would be most fair. I don't think there is a perfect system. I know right now it is far from it. 

 

This is not an easy discussion by any means. 

[biggentleben]

I just put up a quick snippet at CTTP on this, but to expand on what I said there, I'm not sure what you do with the 301st player. Currently we have undrafted free agents in the majors all the time. I know the Braves are known in scouting circles for nabbing guys who are 18-19 in Latin America that were outside of the typical academy system and were initially missed. There are easily more than 300 players signed every July 2nd, so there could be gaming the system here as well.

 

I could absolutely see someone doing something like the Astros/Braves/Reds did in recent drafts by spreading money across a number of picks to get more talent rather than go after the one big guy, which then drops a #1 talent to the #2 or #3 team, and possibly throws off everyone's financials to make those guys work in their new norms.

 

For instance, let's say that in a 10-round draft, the #1 team has $10M to spend overall, but the #10 team has $5M to spend. Could you have a situation where a player says "I won't sign for less than $4.5M" to get to the #10 team and then that team takes a lot of low-signing guys the rest of the way?