JO Berrios

[drivlikejehu]

Or he could blow out his arm. That's the trouble with young pitchers- you need a lot of them to compensate for inevitable injuries.

[TD Mac]

Excellent point and one I think the Twins have really tried to address the last few drafts. Though we've certainly been unfortunate in running into medical issues with Bashore, Tootle, Gibson and Hunt (brain?), I like that they've tried to add some top of the order and back of the bullpen type arms.

 

Boyd, Jones, Boer, Summers, and this year adding another 5-6 power arms is what really has me excited. Obviously they won't all make it, but we need to develop a few #1 and #2 pitchers as I don't ever see us being legitimate players in the FA market. Also glad to see we are looking to stretch some of those projectable arms into starting roles rather than relegating them to bullpen prospects as such an early stage of their careers. Despite Boer's difficulties this season, I think it's a sound philosophy, and one which allows a return to the pen if they aren't able to develop the pitches or psyche to be a starter.

[kab21]

2nd - does your list include any pitchers beside Dylan Bundy?

looked but .......no:cry:

 

 

Needling some with Berrios, would be very happy if he starts the season in Low A & pitches the whole year there.

If he dominates tho....want to see a promotion.

 

Hard to compare last yrs to this yrs, as this yrs got in a full half-season of ball

 

I just get tired of hearing criticism about how the Twins move prospects along slowly. They are conservative compared to most teams but the recent prospects haven't exactly been dominating any leagues and rarely have made the Twins look foolish when they were promoted.

 

I also think you are way too optimistic about what an 18/19 yr old #31 pick (in a weak draft) should be able to do in his first season of full season ball. He's not Dylan Bundy and he's not Jose Fernandez. He was an outstanding pick and I'm expecting good things next season but acting like he will just roll through A ball like he did in the GCL/Appy league is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[glunn]

John Sickels also wrote about him yesterday at minorleaguebaseball.com.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/8/19/3253639/minor-league-prospect-note-jose-berrios-rhp-minnesota-twins

 

Thanks for posting this link -- the article is very encouraging.

[drivlikejehu]

Excellent point and one I think the Twins have really tried to address the last few drafts. Though we've certainly been unfortunate in running into medical issues with Bashore, Tootle, Gibson and Hunt (brain?), I like that they've tried to add some top of the order and back of the bullpen type arms.

 

Boyd, Jones, Boer, Summers, and this year adding another 5-6 power arms is what really has me excited. Obviously they won't all make it, but we need to develop a few #1 and #2 pitchers as I don't ever see us being legitimate players in the FA market. Also glad to see we are looking to stretch some of those projectable arms into starting roles rather than relegating them to bullpen prospects as such an early stage of their careers. Despite Boer's difficulties this season, I think it's a sound philosophy, and one which allows a return to the pen if they aren't able to develop the pitches or psyche to be a starter.

 

Throwing hard isn't enough. And it's also a lot easier out of the bullpen. Boer has only average velocity as a starter, Summers below average, etc. The Twins lag in every respect behind almost all other organizations. It is a complete disaster zone and no one should think otherwise.

[darin617]

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

 

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

[TD Mac]

Throwing hard isn't enough. And it's also a lot easier out of the bullpen. Boer has only average velocity as a starter, Summers below average, etc. The Twins lag in every respect behind almost all other organizations. It is a complete disaster zone and no one should think otherwise.

 

I agree that based on the sample we've seen from Boer, he would appear to be better suited to the pen (as

might Summers - though I'd like to continue to see him worked as a starter as I don't think he's pitched himself out of a rotation possibility yet). However, I don't think that Boer getting the extra innings this year will stunt his growth as a reliever, so I don't think the Twins lost anything by working him as a starter

 

Id like to continue to see them move some of those power arms into starting assignments if they have the complimentary pitches to support starting

[kab21]

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

 

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

 

I challenge you (or anyone) to start naming names of Twins prospects that were unjustly held back. The Twins are conservative with promotions but they also haven't prospects that have dominated levels (other than appy league).

[diehardtwinsfan]

The real question that has not been asked yet is can he learn to pitch to contact instead of striking out most of the hitters?

 

I can't wait to see him make his MLB debut in 4 more seasons. You would hate to see the Twins rush a pitcher... So sad but probably true.

 

I challenge you (or anyone) to start naming names of Twins prospects that were unjustly held back. The Twins are conservative with promotions but they also haven't prospects that have dominated levels (other than appy league).

 

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

[Mauerzy4Prez]

Or he could blow out his arm. That's the trouble with young pitchers- you need a lot of them to compensate for inevitable injuries.

 

Really? I get being realistic and considering all possible scenarios, but we don't need to start putting bad karma on a guy that is already becoming one of the best pitching prospects in our system and is a teenager still.

[kab21]

 

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

 

the arb/super 2 game is a different discussion. I'm specifically talking about the ridiculous arguments that 'if Trout/Harper played for the Twins they would only be in A ball right now'. There seems to be this myth that the Twins don't promote fast enough thru the rk/A/AA levels. If some had their way any decent prospect would be promoted after a month of decent production similar to what the Mets did with so many prospects. Aside from a couple of college pitchers like Slowey/Garza/Gibson there have not been any prospects (that I can think of) that deserved to be fast tracked.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

 

the arb/super 2 game is a different discussion. I'm specifically talking about the ridiculous arguments that 'if Trout/Harper played for the Twins they would only be in A ball right now'. There seems to be this myth that the Twins don't promote fast enough thru the rk/A/AA levels. If some had their way any decent prospect would be promoted after a month of decent production similar to what the Mets did with so many prospects. Aside from a couple of college pitchers like Slowey/Garza/Gibson there have not been any prospects (that I can think of) that deserved to be fast tracked.

 

On that I agree with you.

[Mike Sixel]

We'll see with Sano and Rosario, I guess, and maybe Berrios - not sure who else should move quickly right now (well, maybe some pitchers that we KNOW will be relievers long term). There was a study (on the internet, by BP or someone) about 2 years ago that showed the Twins promoted players slower than most every other team, but I can't recall if the conclusion was that they were slower as a strategy, or that the players weren't worthy.

[old nurse]

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

??? Neshek appears to have been fast tracked. For Morneau and Bartlett, September call up from AA where they did not perform well, then they did well after midseason call ups after 1/2 season in AAA. Would you like to try again?

[kab21]

We'll see with Sano and Rosario, I guess, and maybe Berrios - not sure who else should move quickly right now (well, maybe some pitchers that we KNOW will be relievers long term). There was a study (on the internet, by BP or someone) about 2 years ago that showed the Twins promoted players slower than most every other team, but I can't recall if the conclusion was that they were slower as a strategy, or that the players weren't worthy.

 

Sano and Rosario are definitely two guys that could potentially be fast tracked but even though they are having good seasons they are not dominating their low A this year. I don't have any problem with Sano staying in Beloit all season despite 26 HR's and a .900 OPS.

 

One could actually argue that Arcia has been fastracked. He's 21 with an expectation that he'll be in the majors by July next season. We're looking at 500ish AB's in A ball and 500ish AB's in AA/AAA.

[Turd Furgeson]

 

In recent memory, there haven't been any. In the small market days, they definitely played the arb/super2 game... Guys like Neshek, Morneau, and Bartlett spent more time in the minors than one would have liked.... but that was quite some time ago.

 

the arb/super 2 game is a different discussion. I'm specifically talking about the ridiculous arguments that 'if Trout/Harper played for the Twins they would only be in A ball right now'. There seems to be this myth that the Twins don't promote fast enough thru the rk/A/AA levels. If some had their way any decent prospect would be promoted after a month of decent production similar to what the Mets did with so many prospects. Aside from a couple of college pitchers like Slowey/Garza/Gibson there have not been any prospects (that I can think of) that deserved to be fast tracked.

 

 

I definitely agree with this. A lot of people are very critical of the Twins promotion methods, but as you said we just haven't had the type of prospects that you aggressively promote. Arcia has been promoted fairly aggressively but there's a reason for that.

[diehardtwinsfan]

??? Neshek appears to have been fast tracked. For Morneau and Bartlett, September call up from AA where they did not perform well, then they did well after midseason call ups after 1/2 season in AAA. Would you like to try again?

 

Yes apparently the free Neshek slogans that people adopted were because Neshek was being fast tracked. The Twins were in desparate need of pen help while he was absolutely dominating AAA hitters and they took their time calling him up. Morneau and Bartlett didn't perform well in their September callups and went back to AAA where they dominated. In Bartletts case, he spent 3 years there posting an OPS of .887, .864, and .779 while playing above average defense at short. The Twins, instead of giving him an opportunity, signed Juan Castro and wondered why they couldn't get the offense going. At the same time Morneau spent a half year in AAA following his demotion where he only had an OPS of .992 while Dougie M blocked him with his .700 OPS. All of these players could have been up sooner...

 

that said, if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd have realized I was largely agreeing with the idea that the Twins are not holding guys back. I specifically mentioned these guys in terms of super 2 status, which is exactly why Neshek and Morneau were delayed (though I suspect but cannot prove there may have been other issues with Bartlett)...

[Twins Twerp]

What is the point of promoting fast? I can see the downside.

 

Downside: Have to pay a player when he gets to Majors faster and is arbitration eligible faster.

[PseudoSABR]

What is the point of promoting fast? I can see the downside.

 

Downside: Have to pay a player when he gets to Majors faster and is arbitration eligible faster.

Development. In lower stake games, it's easier to work on your game without worrying about results. Players like Dozier and Hendricks might be examples of players promoted too quickly...

[drjim]

We'll see with Sano and Rosario, I guess, and maybe Berrios - not sure who else should move quickly right now (well, maybe some pitchers that we KNOW will be relievers long term). There was a study (on the internet, by BP or someone) about 2 years ago that showed the Twins promoted players slower than most every other team, but I can't recall if the conclusion was that they were slower as a strategy, or that the players weren't worthy.

 

The other team that is often thought of as being slow to promote is the Rays. And they actually have stud prospects worthy of quicker promotions. I think overall that is pretty good company for the Twins to keep.

 

Overall I think the conservative approach is generally smarter for development, allows for steady progress and the ability to have sustained success at every level. This is especially true the last couple of years when the Twins have been terrible. There is little gained from a player being overmatched in the bigs.

[gunnarthor]

I still didn't see a Berrios adopt a prospect so, in today's BA hot sheet: "The Scoop: Few players from the 2012 draft have dominated in their pro debuts quite like Berrios. A supplemental first-round pick (32nd overall) out of Puerto Rico in June, Berrios has a 1.17 ERA and a sterling 49-4 K-BB mark across 30 2/3 innings between the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League and the Appy League. While Berrios is filling up the zone with strikes, he's also doing it with power, as he's shown a fastball in the low- to mid-90s that has reached as high as 98 mph. It's very early, but the Twins may have gotten a steal here."

[righty8383]

I've heard that Berrios's chang-up is average. But watch this video about 32 seconds in he throws what appears to be a change up. Tons of movement on that pitch.

[Twins Twerp]

I've heard that Berrios's chang-up is average. But watch this video about 32 seconds in he throws what appears to be a change up. Tons of movement on that pitch.

 

Nasty