Why hasn't Berrios been called back up?

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I'm convinced the twins are the only franchise that would let this happen. Nolasco and Milone getting starts over him right now is pure comedy.

Right again, scoob.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'd like to see Berrios show me a little more in Rochester before he gets the call.

 

He hasn't pitched a single no-hitter yet, much less any perfect games.

[DaveW]

I'd like to see Berrios show me a little more in Rochester before he gets the call.

 

He hasn't pitched a single no-hitter yet, much less any perfect games.

IALTO!

[Mr. Brooks]

Berrios should absolutely be up on August 2nd (or officially whichever day would be his next start after Aug 1). I have no problem with them waiting until they see what happens with their starters and the trade deadline. I think they could get a low-level minor leaguer for Tommy Milone. I think they'll just have to DFA Nolasco. Either way... something will happen and Berrios will be up.

There is always going to be an excuse. You yourself said he should be up 2 weeks ago, Seth. (It's time!)

 

The trade deadline is just another fabricated excuse. Are the Twins really shopping Tyler Duffey? If not, then Berrios should have taken his spot and Duffey can come back up when someone is moved.

 

After 8/1, if the Twins don't find a taker for Nolasco or Milone, the next fabricated excuse will be the 8/31 trade deadline.

 

After that deadline it will be that Rochester is in the playoffs and it would be good for their development to let Berrios help them get a taste of a championship.

 

After that it will be that his innings are getting high, and he just pitched a bunch of high stress innings in the playoffs and there is no point in risking an injury by piling on with meaningless September innings.

 

Next thing you know, it's spring training and Berrios doesn't "win" the tiny sample size practice games competition for the rotation. Or, it'll be, hey the Twins probably should have had him up last year, but since they didn't, it only makes good business sense to keep him down another 3 weeks and gain another year of control!

 

Enough with the excuses. There will ALWAYS be one that can be defended in a vacuum.

The well run organizations find room when top prospects are ready. They don't put some desperate hope for a slightly better C prospect ahead of the development of a top prospect.

[jorgenswest]

Whether he was up after the all star break or after the the trade deadline will make no difference in his development or future. I will wait until August 2 before joining the crowd calling for his return.

[kab21]

 

I'd like to see Berrios show me a little more in Rochester before he gets the call.

He hasn't pitched a single no-hitter yet, much less any perfect games.

Do you disagree that he struggled initially when sent back to Rochester?

Would you have promoted him after he pitched 3-4 great games or waited longer?

 

Right now we are in the wait longer period that I am comfortable with. I would not be upset about this and blasting management for mishandling if he was promoted last week or next week.

 

I will be upset if he stays in AAA for playoffs or something stupid. I was upset last year that he wasn't called up to pitch 2-3 innings/wk out of the bullpen and be part of the big league team. That move bought the team a year of control but I hate that part of the game.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I was upset last year that he wasn't called up to pitch 2-3 innings/wk out of the bullpen and be part of the big league team. That move bought the team a year of control but I hate that part of the game.

Actually it didn't buy another year of control, given the amount of time he spent in the minors this year. Actually could have had him up for part of August last year too and he wouldn't even be super 2 eligible right now.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

No but demoting the guy down to AAA certainly might...

 

I would be appalled if the Twins promoted Berrios right now.

 

Why?  Cause I'm hoping they are trying to shed as many of our crappy pitchers as possible, and it's hard to sell Milone as an MLB starter if he's AAA!

 

Now come August 2 and he's still not up, that's when I'll be mad.

I agree, as most others assume this too, but also think that Duffey should be the one swapped out for Berrios until someone is traded. Duffey likely isn't auditioning to be traded, so he is the guy to be sent down.

[Major League Ready]

 

I agree, as most others assume this too, but also think that Duffey should be the one swapped out for Berrios until someone is traded. Duffey likely isn't auditioning to be traded, so he is the guy to be sent down.

Getting demoted is a huge deal and demoting Duffey or anyone else a week before the deadline is the equivalent of telling Duffey and anyone else who is not a top prospect you don't give a damn about them.  They all earned their way to the ML level and it's probably safe to assume even the players who are not in danger of being demoted don't appreciate their teammates being treated that way.  If Antony wanted to prove he had no leadership aptitude whatsoever, this would be a great way to demonstrate said ineptitude to Jim Pohlad.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Getting demoted is a huge deal and demoting Duffey or anyone else a week before the deadline is the equivalent of telling Duffey and anyone else who is not a top prospect you don't give a damn about them. They all earned their way to the ML level and it's probably safe to assume even the players who are not in danger of being demoted don't appreciate their teammates being treated that way. If Antony wanted to prove he had no leadership aptitude whatsoever, this would be a great way to demonstrate said ineptitude to Jim Pohlad.

Did the players settle their revolt after the Neil Ramirez demotion yet, so close to "The Deadline"?

 

Even if your theory is true, and I'm not really sure what it is, Berrios could have been swapped for Duffey a week ago if teams can't demote players just a week before "The Deadline." (Or would the players have seen through such a simple trick to demote him two weeks before "THE DEADLINE"?)

[Mr. Brooks]

Getting demoted is a huge deal and demoting Duffey or anyone else a week before the deadline is the equivalent of telling Duffey and anyone else who is not a top prospect you don't give a damn about them. They all earned their way to the ML level and it's probably safe to assume even the players who are not in danger of being demoted don't appreciate their teammates being treated that way. If Antony wanted to prove he had no leadership aptitude whatsoever, this would be a great way to demonstrate said ineptitude to Jim Pohlad.

I'm sorry I'm not following what you are saying here.

You are saying that once someone makes the big leagues he can never be sent back down, no matter how poorly he plays?

 

Hasn't Berrios earned his way to the big leagues?

[Mr. Brooks]

Whether he was up after the all star break or after the the trade deadline will make no difference in his development or future. I will wait until August 2 before joining the crowd calling for his return.

So August 2, is the magical date when it DOES start to affect his development or future?

[Otto von Ballpark]

And if August 2 rolls around, and Nolasco and Milone are still on the team, do we shrug our shoulders and say "they had to wait to try moving them" or is it okay to ask if a MLB front office should be able to anticipate two of its players having zero value before the deadline? And not have to wait for the obvious confirmation?

 

If Nolasco's Twins career isn't enough, and Milone's season and earlier clearing waivers isn't enough, what threshold of poor performance and salary/circumstances would be enough to warrant not waiting through the deadline? Is it only players who are performing worse and paid more than Nolasco that could get bumped from their starting role prior to July 31?

[alarp33]

Getting demoted is a huge deal and demoting Duffey or anyone else a week before the deadline is the equivalent of telling Duffey and anyone else who is not a top prospect you don't give a damn about them.  They all earned their way to the ML level and it's probably safe to assume even the players who are not in danger of being demoted don't appreciate their teammates being treated that way.  If Antony wanted to prove he had no leadership aptitude whatsoever, this would be a great way to demonstrate said ineptitude to Jim Pohlad.

Huh? What exactly are they telling Berrios by keeping him in AAA for 30 starts?

[DaveW]

Duffey has a 5.71 ERA, I don't see how he has really "earned" anything, I think he may have a future with this club as a starter, but he shouldn't be standing in the way of Berrios. Then again, neither should Nolasco or Milone (both should be gone before Duffey is sent down)

 

Also, if they dont want to cut anyone right now, why not do the following:

Send Nolasco to the pen.

Recall Berrios

Send May to AAA to stretch out.

Am I missing something?

[Halsey Hall]

 

Dominating triple A. Not like our rotation is stellar, hoping he gets called up after either Santana, Gibson, or Nolasco is dealt.

You just answered your own question.

[Seth Stohs]

 

So your recent article titled "It's Time!" was actually written in the future?

Seriously, Nolasco and Milone (and probably Santana) are probably better candidates for August trade waivers than the upcoming deadline. Should the Twins just push Berrios back to September 1st too?

 

I'd have him up, but I can't blame the Twins for letting it play out. They're in no rush with the playoffs out of the realm of possibility. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

I'd have him up, but I can't blame the Twins for letting it play out. They're in no rush with the playoffs out of the realm of possibility. 

 

That's the entire reason that the lack of a call up is so egregious.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Getting demoted is a huge deal and demoting Duffey or anyone else a week before the deadline is the equivalent of telling Duffey and anyone else who is not a top prospect you don't give a damn about them.  They all earned their way to the ML level and it's probably safe to assume even the players who are not in danger of being demoted don't appreciate their teammates being treated that way.  If Antony wanted to prove he had no leadership aptitude whatsoever, this would be a great way to demonstrate said ineptitude to Jim Pohlad.

I can get on board with this mental/emotional handling of players, but I guess that I personally feel that Duffey has EARNED a demotion by his poor performance, so it would a swap that would make sense at any point of the season.

[Seth Stohs]

 

There is always going to be an excuse. You yourself said he should be up 2 weeks ago, Seth. (It's time!)

The trade deadline is just another fabricated excuse. Are the Twins really shopping Tyler Duffey? If not, then Berrios should have taken his spot and Duffey can come back up when someone is moved.

After 8/1, if the Twins don't find a taker for Nolasco or Milone, the next fabricated excuse will be the 8/31 trade deadline.

After that deadline it will be that Rochester is in the playoffs and it would be good for their development to let Berrios help them get a taste of a championship.

After that it will be that his innings are getting high, and he just pitched a bunch of high stress innings in the playoffs and there is no point in risking an injury by piling on with meaningless September innings.

Next thing you know, it's spring training and Berrios doesn't "win" the tiny sample size practice games competition for the rotation. Or, it'll be, hey the Twins probably should have had him up last year, but since they didn't, it only makes good business sense to keep him down another 3 weeks and gain another year of control!

Enough with the excuses. There will ALWAYS be one that can be defended in a vacuum.
The well run organizations find room when top prospects are ready. They don't put some desperate hope for a slightly better C prospect ahead of the development of a top prospect.

 

I'll be incredibly disappointed if he makes a start for Rochester AFTER August 1st. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

That's the entire reason that the lack of a call up is so egregious.

 

He's been good for 7 starts in a row. Before that, he was still struggling with control and command. I have no problem with them letting him work on his issues in AAA and then doing well for more than 3-4 starts. He's at 7 in a row now... any time now. 

[DaveW]

The problem is, I don't think it really even has to do with Berrios, it has to do with the fact the Twins are hellbent in trying to build up Milone/Nolasco somehow to deal one of them. In reality, baring anything less than a miracle those guys were going to continue being what they are (6th starter types on a bad to mediocre team, 7/8th starters on a playoff caliber team)

 

This insistence in running out Nolasco every 5th day at this point is beyond perplexing, he has NO business being in this rotation at this point, if you don't want to cut him and eat the money, then just stick him in the pen to see if he can somehow turn it around. Part of me wonders if this was Terry Ryans "last straw" i.e he wanted to bring up Berrios, but the Pohlads refused to let him cut Nolasco (or move such an expensive player to the pen)

[drivlikejehu]

 

He's been good for 7 starts in a row. Before that, he was still struggling with control and command. I have no problem with them letting him work on his issues in AAA and then doing well for more than 3-4 starts. He's at 7 in a row now... any time now. 

 

He was dominant in AAA last year. He has thrown over 500 innings in the minor leagues and been good at every stop in his entire minor league career. In 10 of his 15 starts in AAA this year, he's allowed 0 or 1 earned run, and he's allowed more than 3 twice - both in May. He would be up for every other non-contending team without question.

[scottz]

He's probably just another Liam Hendriks.

[Seth Stohs]

 

He was dominant in AAA last year. He has thrown over 500 innings in the minor leagues and been good at every stop in his entire minor league career. In 10 of his 15 starts in AAA this year, he's allowed 0 or 1 earned run, and he's allowed more than 3 twice - both in May. He would be up for every other non-contending team without question.

 

 

I'm not arguing with any of the information above, other than the guess that he wouldn't be up with other organizations. No way to know if that's fact of not. He would have been sent down after the four starts he had in the big leagues (most likely). Teams aren't trying to put their best prospects in a position to fail. There's no right or wrong answer to any of this. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

I'm not arguing with any of the information above, other than the guess that he wouldn't be up with other organizations. No way to know if that's fact of not. He would have been sent down after the four starts he had in the big leagues (most likely). Teams aren't trying to put their best prospects in a position to fail. There's no right or wrong answer to any of this. 

 

Some would have sent him down, sure. But they would have called him back up by now. If you pay attention to other teams in MLB, they don't have such a short fuse with prospects when they are rebuilding. It's not speculation - look at how these situations play out across the league.

 

Aaron Blair has been way worse than Berrios, factoring in peripherals, and the Braves have given him 11 starts. Just one example from this year. Some other teams have struggling young pitchers that don't have many starts yet but that are still with their team. 

[theBOMisthebomb]

Save Ferris! Just chill bro, he will be here after the trade deadline. If not, then let's start anarchy.

[The Wise One]

 

That's why someone should #FireThemAll

 

In a last place team, while notables like Tommy Milone are allowed to show their "craft" every 5 days. 

 

I just don't get it.  Let him learn by his mistakes.  Check out Verlander's career, if you don't believe me.

Verlander had an ERA+ of 125 in his first two full seasons.  He was ROY. What the heck does Verlander have to do with Berrios being inconsistent?

[DaveW]

Verlander had an ERA+ of 125 in his first two full seasons. He was ROY. What the heck does Verlander have to do with Berrios being inconsistent?

I think the term "first two FULL seasons" proves his point.

 

The thing that drives me a bit nuts is they will call up a young position player (OF) and let them struggle for 6+ weeks or so before sending them down, however the patience with pitchers is usually significantly less and it takes them more time to get shot number two.

 

The inconsistencies are just.....odd.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd have him up, but I can't blame the Twins for letting it play out. They're in no rush with the playoffs out of the realm of possibility.

Seems like this same reasoning contributed to him not getting a callup last year -- we couldn't afford to break in another young hurler in the playoff race. This year, we are as far from that race as one can get, but apparently we can't afford to lose starts for the veteran Nolasco before the trade deadline?