Reds Have "Kicked the Tires" on Span

[Nick Nelson]

According to Ken Rosenthal. (Link)

 

I said back in the beginning of July that I expected Span to be gone by the deadline and I still feel that way, even though there hasn't been a whole lot of trade buzz surrounding him up until this point. Sounds like the Reds are more interested in a short-term fix but they may eventually decide that Span's multi-year contract offers more appeal.

 

Seth highlighted a few Reds prospects that might interest the Twins in his trade target team profile a few weeks ago.

[J-Dog Dungan]

Any chance that if the Twins trade Span, they get two of the guys on the list from Seth's article?

[gunnarthor]

Any chance that if the Twins trade Span, they get two of the guys on the list from Seth's article?

I think they'd have to, at a minimum. It's not like the Twins should be trading for fungible parts. If they don't get a good deal that seriously upgrades their farm system, they keep Span. They can trade him next year or the year after if they want to. If they trade Span for Didi and some C prospects, I'd be pretty upset.

[John Bonnes]

Rosenthal mentioned Tony Cigrani as trade bait. Thoughts? His stats look outstanding.

[70charger]

Rosenthal mentioned Tony Cigrani as trade bait. Thoughts? His stats look outstanding.

Yes!

[striker_86]

yeah' don't dump span just to dump him. Liriano on the other hand, trade him for a bag of leaves

[Guest USAFChief]

Cigrani would work, obviously, but would Cincy seriously consider that? Doubtful.

[PMKI]

Cigrani would work, obviously, but would Cincy seriously consider that? Doubtful.

Where does he rank in their system? I was looking at MLB.com's rankings and they have him as their 10th best prospect. I don't know how good MLB.com is at ranking prospects but that's where I always look.

[Highabove]

Kicking the Tires??

What if we throw in Rust Proofing.

[Oxtung]

A big question for Cigrani is what will his 3rd pitch be like. He was a reliever in college and has a good fastball and slider but he has to develop another pitch or two. He could be dominating the low majors on his FB/SL alone. Anyone hear anything?

[gunnarthor]

Where does he rank in their system? I was looking at MLB.com's rankings and they have him as their 10th best prospect. I don't know how good MLB.com is at ranking prospects but that's where I always look.

He's having a bit of a break out season. Sickels ranked him #94 (not counting recent draftees) in his midseason write-up. Although he had two other Red pitchers - Corcino (61) and Stephenson (63) higher. Honestly, for Span I'd want two of those pitchers in a package. If not, keep Span.

[Nick Nelson]

Span has a sub-.700 OPS dating back to 2010. Even now, relatively healthy, he's not looking like a star player. If people are expecting to get back another org's top pitching prospect, I think they're going to be disappointed.

[Guest USAFChief]

He's having a bit of a break out season. Sickels ranked him #94 (not counting recent draftees) in his midseason write-up. Although he had two other Red pitchers - Corcino (61) and Stephenson (63) higher. Honestly, for Span I'd want two of those pitchers in a package. If not, keep Span.

Have you watched Span at all? He's a nice player and all, with a good contract, but I think we need to acknowledge the .390 OBP guy of '08 and '09 hasn't been there for 3 yrs now. He plays a decent CF, but he's not elite. He really doesn't steal bases much any more...in fact he probably should try less often. There are at least minor reasons to be concerned about long term health issues.

 

I like Denard Span, but I think we need to look at him through the eyes of another GM. Would you want JR to give up 2 of your top minor league pitching prospects for him?

 

If there's one thing the Twins can probably afford to deal, it's an OFer. Cigrani would be a fair deal, I think. A pitcher with stuff, and promise, LHer to boot, that has reached AA. I don't think you'll get better than that.

[raindog]

Yep, I'd pretty much trade Span for Cigrani, straight up. Not that I undervalue Span. I just think Cigrani could be a stud.

[gunnarthor]

Have you watched Span at all? He's a nice player and all, with a good contract, but I think we need to acknowledge the .390 OBP guy of '08 and '09 hasn't been there for 3 yrs now. He plays a decent CF, but he's not elite. He really doesn't steal bases much any more...in fact he probably should try less often. There are at least minor reasons to be concerned about long term health issues.

 

I like Denard Span, but I think we need to look at him through the eyes of another GM. Would you want JR to give up 2 of your top minor league pitching prospects for him?

 

If there's one thing the Twins can probably afford to deal, it's an OFer. Cigrani would be a fair deal, I think. A pitcher with stuff, and promise, LHer to boot, that has reached AA. I don't think you'll get better than that.

By most metrics, Span does play an elite CF. His OBP isn't as high as it was a few years ago but his value, if you trust WAR (either version), is higher. He also happens to fix a huge hole for the Reds. Cigrani is a nice prospect and all but he isn't a top 100 prospect, it isn't a certainty that he'll stay in the rotation and his upside is probably a #3 type pitcher. That's nice and all but isn't worth losing Span for.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Rosenthal mentioned Tony Cigrani as trade bait. Thoughts? His stats look outstanding.

This is the type of pitcher the Twins should be looking at... High upside and doing quite well in AA. There's some risk here that he never develops the feel for a 3rd pitch, but I do think that letting Cueller have at him in Rochester might be a wise move. Given the risks, I suspect the Twins might be able to pry a high ceiling low A guy away from the Reds as well... Not a bad hual, and I'd do it in a second. Perhaps a package with Liriano might get another decent AA pitcher to boot.

[DaveW]

Span and Liriano for Hamilton and Cigrani.

[Mike Sixel]

Hamilton is not being traded, I just don't see that at all....

[DPJ]

Is Span really that big of an upgrade over Stubbs that it's worth giving up a solid prospect or two?

[gunnarthor]

Is Span really that big of an upgrade over Stubbs that it's worth giving up a solid prospect or two?

Yeah, Stubbs has been horrible and the Reds really need a quality leadoff hitter and another LH bat. Reds leadoff hitters have a .248 OBP! NL avg is .316.

[DPJ]

Stubbs -.668 OPS

Span - .731

 

No doubt Span is the hitter player right now, but if the upgrade that large that you would give up a top prospect. Is the gain really that large?

[Nick Nelson]

CINGRANI***!

 

Goodness, every single person on this thread has spelled it wrong. The lesson here is to never follow Bonnes' lead when it comes to spelling.

[gunnarthor]

Stubbs -.668 OPS

Span - .731

 

No doubt Span is the hitter player right now, but if the upgrade that large that you would give up a top prospect. Is the gain really that large?

Yeah, it is. His defensive value/baserunning etc make him about twice as valuable as Stubbs. Plus, Stubbs is coming into his arbitration years where Span has the more team friendly contract.

[Mike Sixel]

A 70 point difference in OPS is massive.

[Oxtung]

A 70 point difference in OPS is massive.

Hyperbole much? While a difference it is nowhere near "massive".

[John Bonnes]

The lead off hitters for the Reds combined have an OBP of around .250. That is not a typo. Span would be a huge upgrade for them.

[DPJ]

If I were the Reds I'd rather just give up a lower level prospect for Juan Pierre then give up something larger for Span. I don't think he's that massive up an upgrade to give up a solid arm for. NTM I've always been a huge Stubbs fan and believe he'll figure it out. He's always gonna have some contact issues, but I still really like him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Hyperbole much? While a difference it is nowhere near "massive".

It's the difference between a 79 OPS+ and a 105 OPS+. Stubbs is putting up that OPS in the Great American Bandbox while Denard is doing it at Target Field.

 

That's massive.

[Mike Sixel]

Yup, after checking Fangraphs, I'm even more sure the difference is massive. Not to mention Denard has a very nice contract. Put him in a smaller stadium, and he's even better, offensively and defensively.

[Winston Smith]

I'd add Burton to Span and ask for Corcino or Cingrani and Didi.