3 Twins thoughts from Patrick

[Platoon]

This from the bottom of a column on the Gopher Basketball program that Reusse had online this morning.

 

PLUS THREE FROM PATRICK

 

Predictions on what will befall the Twins at end of an already-horrific 2016:

 

*Terry Ryan will announce in September that he is retiring after the season.

 

*Twins ownership will throw numerous millions at Jed Hoyer to leave Theo Epstein’s shadow with the Cubs.

 

*Hoyer will blow up the baseball operation, including the on-field staff. Next manager: Torey Lovullo.

 

I don't know if something of this magnitude will happen or not, or even if it would actually work out. Not all moves do. But it brings to mind the old story about the raccoon hunter who climbed a tree the dogs were circling during a night hunt. His buddy stayed on the ground, while he went up to attempt to chase the the raccoon out of the tree. Unfortunately it was not a raccoon, but a tomcat. In the ensuing fur flying skin scratching struggle he yelled to his friend, "Shoot, shoot, for gods sake shoot!" When the friend yelled back that he couldn't because he did not know if he would hit the tomcat, or him, the cat fighter yelled back, "for the love of God, just shoot, at this point I don't care which one of us you hit!" And that old Cajun tale sums up the state of our MN Twins this year.

[alarp33]

Please please please make Reusse right for once.  

[nytwinsfan]

Would love it, but it would go completely against the Twins way of doing things. I'm not holding my breath.

[Squirrel]

I won't get excited about any of this. I'd say doubtful of it happening is even too much.

[alarp33]

 

I won't get excited about any of this. I'd say doubtful of it happening is even too much.

 

I actually think the 1st one is pretty likely.  Maybe I'm getting my hopes too high, but at this point I would be surprised if TR is around next year.  

[Platoon]

I won't get excited about any of this. I'd say doubtful of it happening is even too much.

Sadly I very much agree. More sadly, if something doesn't, I fear that we will be stuck in this time warp for a long time. We will develop into a not good, but not bad team. It makes me sad!

[gunnarthor]

I could see Ryan retiring at any point.  He had a battle with cancer and maybe the GM duties are more of a hassle and he just wants to do part time scouting.  It that's what he wants, it's fine with me.  He's earned it. I like him as a GM but he won't be GM forever and he should enjoy himself.  As bad as this season has been, he's done a great job restocking the minors with talent.  Personally, I thinks he waits until we have a winning season - like TK - but who knows.  

 

But the Pohlads outbidding the Cubs for someone?  No chance.  

[Pardon My Dinger]

The way I see it, Hoyer's not going anywhere unless the Cubbies win the world series. Unless that happens (which it almost certainly won't, because they're the cubs), he'd stick around, because everyone wants to be a part of that party. 

[gunnarthor]

 

The way I see it, Hoyer's not going anywhere unless the Cubbies win the world series. Unless that happens (which it almost certainly won't, because they're the cubs), he'd stick around, because everyone wants to be a part of that party. 

Well, the argument is that when they win it, Epstein will get all the credit and if they don't win it, Hoyer will get all the blame.  I'm not sure that's true but I just don't see the Twins offering him enough $ to leave a great situation.  

[markos]

 

But the Pohlads outbidding the Cubs for someone?  No chance.  

It may not be about money but rather the opportunity to build his own successful organization. Hard to know how much that matters to him. I think it will definitely depend on if the Cubs with the WS or not. Also, the Twins have to be a fairly attractive location for a potential GM: good farm system, weak division, low expectations. I'm not sure there is an obvious "I'll wait for something better to open up" option on the horizon. 

[alarp33]

 

Well, the argument is that when they win it, Epstein will get all the credit and if they don't win it, Hoyer will get all the blame.  I'm not sure that's true but I just don't see the Twins offering him enough $ to leave a great situation.  

 

It's not just money, the Twins can offer him the President of Baseball Operations role, allow him to choose his own GM, etc. The total control he won't have in Chicago.  

 

I think it's a pipe dream, but I'd be surprised if its money that stops it from happening

[clutterheart]

I don't see it.  I don't think the Pohlads would throw millions at a nationally known guy who isn't part of the team.  

Does Andy McPhail have any kids?  That is more likely.

 

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

At this point I would say anyone from outside the organization would be an exciting, well-founded hire. A younger, more forward-thinking GM wouldn't be crazy. It'd basically be par-for-the-course in today's game.

 

Hoyer would be a home run. As manager goes, that's a position where I wouldn't mind seeing someone get promoted from within. I don't know, say someone currently residing in southeast Tennessee with a hard-to-spell last name. I'd say familiarity with the current/future players is an important piece for a manager to have with this team.

[HitInAPinch]

Well, looks like Reusse got his column inches worth of reads  

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

It's not just money, the Twins can offer him the President of Baseball Operations role, allow him to choose his own GM, etc. The total control he won't have in Chicago.  

 

I think it's a pipe dream, but I'd be surprised if its money that stops it from happening

Umm, yeah.  Pipe dream with plenty of ganja  

[Pardon My Dinger]

As much as I wish that the Twins would do something like this, I'd prefer to see Doug M. get the chance to manage. And, I'm pretty sure there's a gentlemen's agreement in place there. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

As much as I wish that the Twins would do something like this, I'd prefer to see Doug M. get the chance to manage. And, I'm pretty sure there's a gentlemen's agreement in place there. 

 

Based on what? He is an old timey guy for sure, based on his comments over the last couple years. What makes you think he'd be good at it, and help move the Twins into this decade of tactics and approach?

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm asking why you believe it, to inform me.

[Blackjack]

 

I actually think the 1st one is pretty likely.  Maybe I'm getting my hopes too high, but at this point I would be surprised if TR is around next year.  

My guess is that Terry sticks around until the team is competitive again, which means several more years.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Based on what? He is an old timey guy for sure, based on his comments over the last couple years. What makes you think he'd be good at it, and help move the Twins into this decade of tactics and approach?

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm asking why you believe it, to inform me.

I got a guuuuuuut feeling!

 

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Based on what? He is an old timey guy for sure, based on his comments over the last couple years. What makes you think he'd be good at it, and help move the Twins into this decade of tactics and approach?

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm asking why you believe it, to inform me.

Yeah, but I really don't know. These kids all won together in the lower ranks, though, and everyone went through Doug at some point. Ah well, I'm usually wrong anyway. 

[Thrylos]

 

I don't see it.  I don't think the Pohlads would throw millions at a nationally known guy who isn't part of the team.  

Does Andy McPhail have any kids?  That is more likely.

 

For the ones who were not around and forget:  Pohlad offered to make MacPhail part owner before he went to the Cubs and MacPhail declined.   This is a pretty good writeup, with Pohlad's offer on page 2.

 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

At this point I would say anyone from outside the organization would be an exciting, well-founded hire. A younger, more forward-thinking GM wouldn't be crazy. It'd basically be par-for-the-course in today's game.

 

Hoyer would be a home run. As manager goes, that's a position where I wouldn't mind seeing someone get promoted from within. I don't know, say someone currently residing in southeast Tennessee with a hard-to-spell last name. I'd say familiarity with the current/future players is an important piece for a manager to have with this team.

I would argue the complete opposite. I think it would be a refreshing change to bring in a manager who's not familiar with the current/future players... No bias towards some players, everyone's on the same playing field. After 3-4 years of having a farm system full of awesome players, I'd love for someone else to come in and confirm that's actually the case. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It may not be about money but rather the opportunity to build his own successful organization. Hard to know how much that matters to him. I think it will definitely depend on if the Cubs with the WS or not. Also, the Twins have to be a fairly attractive location for a potential GM: good farm system, weak division, low expectations. I'm not sure there is an obvious "I'll wait for something better to open up" option on the horizon. 

Hoyer already had that opportunity, to some degree, in San Diego for several years.  It appears he put a priority on working with preferred colleagues and under aggressive ownership when he moved to Chicago.  Going to Minnesota would almost be a backwards career move for him.  Pohlad would have to do a complete 180 degree turn on finances and "loyalty" to even get Hoyer to listen here, I think, and the suddenness of such a turn would suggest a lack of confidence and a great degree of instability by itself.  Like a boyfriend that quits his job and moves his home to convince you he's a stable partner.  I'm not even sure there is anything that Pohlad could do or say in the next 6 months to convince a new GM that they would really, truly have the level of control and resources they want.

[gocgo]

I would say that the first point is somewhat likely, the second point won't happen which then eliminates the third point.

 

More likely - first prediction happens, Ron Gardenhire is brought in to fill Ryan's position, the Twins auger in for back to back 35 win seasons while the Cubs win back to back to back world series.

 

Not saying that will happen, just saying it is more likely than the scenario laid out by Ruesse.

[alarp33]

 

My guess is that Terry sticks around until the team is competitive again, which means several more years.

 

I look to Glen Taylor as my inspiration in that prediction.  One of the most incompetent owners in sports (Pohlads also in that group) didn't do the easy thing and bring Sam Mitchell back to coach, he went out and made a great hire.  As losses pile up this Summer, the public pressure is going to mount, both on the Pohlad's and on Terry Ryan.  Once it really starts to hit them in the pocket book they will realize changes need to be made.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

For the ones who were not around and forget:  Pohlad offered to make MacPhail part owner before he went to the Cubs and MacPhail declined.   This is a pretty good writeup, with Pohlad's offer on page 2.

Thanks for the link, I was unaware of the part-ownership offer.

 

The quotes from MacPhail not only show why he left, though, but also illustrate a lot of the front office deficiencies that have been on display here in more recent years:

 

"It would have been safe and secure, financially and reputation-wise, to stay in a small market and wring my hands and say, `Oh, gee, there's only so much we can do here. Isn't it a shame?' " says MacPhail. "But security and comfort aren't exactly what you should be aspiring to at 41."

[Squirrel]

 

I would say that the first point is somewhat likely, the second point won't happen which then eliminates the third point.

 

More likely - first prediction happens, Ron Gardenhire is brought in to fill Ryan's position, the Twins auger in for back to back 35 win seasons while the Cubs win back to back to back world series.

 

Not saying that will happen, just saying it is more likely than the scenario laid out by Ruesse.

Oh, man ... I hope not. I'd rather have Ryan forever than put Gardy in as the GM. That will not happen because it just can't happen because, well, no. Ugh.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thanks for the link, I was unaware of the part-ownership offer.

 

The quotes from MacPhail not only show why he left, though, but also illustrate a lot of the front office deficiencies that have been on display here in more recent years:

 

"It would have been safe and secure, financially and reputation-wise, to stay in a small market and wring my hands and say, `Oh, gee, there's only so much we can do here. Isn't it a shame?' " says MacPhail. "But security and comfort aren't exactly what you should be aspiring to at 41."

 

That quote kind of sums up what a lot of us feel about this leadership team, frankly......

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I look to Glen Taylor as my inspiration in that prediction.  One of the most incompetent owners in sports (Pohlads also in that group) didn't do the easy thing and bring Sam Mitchell back to coach, he went out and made a great hire.  As losses pile up this Summer, the public pressure is going to mount, both on the Pohlad's and on Terry Ryan.  Once it really starts to hit them in the pocket book they will realize changes need to be made.  

I'm not really a basketball guy, but it seems like while Thibodeau is an encouraging hire, he is something less than an elite hire, like Hoyer as GM would represent.  (Or Maddon as manager would have represented last winter.)  Thibodeau was fired from his last coaching job less than a year ago.  Does he even have any front office experience?

 

And it's a lot harder to hand over complete control of a baseball franchise than it is for a basketball franchise.  How big is a pro basketball organization?  All Taylor really had to do was give Thibodeau the same job that Saunders already had and displace an interim coach.  And there's a salary cap.  Pohlad would have to push Ryan out, possibly St Peter and others, the new hire might have to push out Molitor, the field staff, more front office staff, etc.  And without a salary cap, any new hire is invariably going to ask for assurances about payroll budget, which Pohlad may provide verbally but might not be convincing due to our record in the matter.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

As losses pile up this Summer, the public pressure is going to mount, both on the Pohlad's and on Terry Ryan.  

Right, pressure. You're just talking about us, right?