Who put this roster together? TIME TO GO

[Twinfan & Dad]

The time has come to accept responsibility for putting together a roster that was so unbalanced with free swingers that the strikeout and prolonged slumps were sure to follow. The streak we are seeing now is only one of many more to come this season. A starting line-up that has 7 batters with a history of high strikeout totals made no sense when it was constructed and makes little sense now 8 games into the season. Mr. RYAN its time to go!

[Dozier's Glorious Hair]

Mauer may end up being the only guy on the roster to finish the season with an OBP above .325. That's a problem.

[twinsnorth49]

Fire Terry Ryan threads are the new Joe Mauer sucks and gets paid too much threads. Becoming cliche however.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Fire Terry Ryan threads are the new Joe Mauer sucks and gets paid too much threads. Becoming cliche however.

Becoming cliche? They were cliche a week ago. Now they're just aggravating.

 

Terry Ryan has made plenty of mistakes but he's not the one out there getting on base 34% of the time with the bases empty and getting on base less than 16% of the time with runners in scoring position (and a large percentage of that pathetic 16% is from IBB so in reality it's even worse than it looks, if that's even possible).

 

The entire lineup is failing to execute in key situations but seem to have little/no difficulty executing with no one on base. It's fair to blame Terry Ryan for lots of things... But it's hard to pin that one on him.

[Mike Sixel]

It's never Ryan's fault that the players don't perform, that they didn't trade Perkins, that he had no plan for having Park/Plouffe/Sano on the same roster, that he didn't fix the bullpen, that the team has won how many playoff series in his time as GM?

 

I agree, they are getting aggravating, but if the team was good......then we wouldn't have these.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Becoming cliche? They were cliche a week ago. Now they're just aggravating.

 

 

I was trying to be nice........my bad. I agree wholeheartedly. 

[Twinfan & Dad]

I agree that the topic of firing Terry Ryan is getting long in the tooth but assembling a line-up that is so flawed as this group is the last straw. How do you expect this group to move runners over and become contact hitters when they have had no success with this in their prior years. You can get away with 3 or 4 free swingers but 7, no way. Who can expect these players to become something that they are not. Do you assemble a basketball team with a roster of all guards or one that has all post players. No! A roster needs balance and this one doesn't pass the test.

[gunnarthor]

 

I agree that the topic of firing Terry Ryan is getting long in the tooth but assembling a line-up that is so flawed as this group is the last straw. How do you expect this group to move runners over and become contact hitters when they have had no success with this in their prior years. You can get away with 3 or 4 free swingers but 7, no way. Who can expect these players to become something that they are not. Do you assemble a basketball team with a roster of all guards or one that has all post players. No! A roster needs balance and this one doesn't pass the test.

Well, as far as I can see, only Park really is controversial.  In the OF, Ryan decided to go with Rosario, Buxton and Sano.  Now you could argue that Sano should be at third and Buxton should be in the minors and the Twins should have a stopgap of some kind in center field.  That kind of kills the 'play the kids' theme but  you could argue it. (Also, most one year CF stop gaps probably wouldn't' be much of an improvement) Rosario made a lot of outs last year and is doing so again this year.  The team decided to go with him (although Kepler might eventually move him out but probably not before July).  I'm ok betting on Rosario with Kepler in the wings over a stop gap.

 

In the IF, you know what you have with the veterans.  Plouffe could have been moved but, as argued many times, the market for third baseman might not have been very good and the Twins might very well think Sano can't play third.  If either of those two is correct, keeping Plouffe and putting Sano in RF is the right decision.  

 

The controversial decision is Park, who I think is a good gamble but might need to go to AAA first. If they didn't go with Park, they'd probably have Arcia or Vargas there.  (Or, you could argue that Sano would DH and Kepler/Arcia would be in RF) Neither plan would alleviate the strike outs.  

 

Basically, the line up is the lineup of the future and there will be growing pains.  The Twins line up will be good when Buxton and Sano are good.  

[d-mac]

 

Becoming cliche? They were cliche a week ago. Now they're just aggravating.

 

Terry Ryan has made plenty of mistakes but he's not the one out there getting on base 34% of the time with the bases empty and getting on base less than 16% of the time with runners in scoring position (and a large percentage of that pathetic 16% is from IBB so in reality it's even worse than it looks, if that's even possible).

 

The entire lineup is failing to execute in key situations but seem to have little/no difficulty executing with no one on base. It's fair to blame Terry Ryan for lots of things... But it's hard to pin that one on him.

 

Do you know what's cliche and aggravating? Twins fans giving a lifetime pass to management for making the playoffs a couple of times a decade ago in a poor division. Some of you almost deserve to be watching bad baseball. For the rest of us, it's painfully obvious that the front office needed a clean sweep five years ago. 

[gunnarthor]

 

Do you know what's cliche and aggravating? Twins fans giving a lifetime pass to management for making the playoffs a couple of times a decade ago in a poor division. Some of you almost deserve to be watching bad baseball. For the rest of us, it's painfully obvious that the front office needed a clean sweep five years ago. 

I find it more aggravating that fans want to burn the place down after 8 games.  If you think Hoyer or Lunhow are on the right path, than you should think the Twins are.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

I find it more aggravating that fans want to burn the place down after 8 games.  If you think Hoyer or Lunhow are on the right path, than you should think the Twins are.  

 

Based on their young stars coming and succeeding right away? Based on them trading off their assets to go all in on a rebuild? Based on what? Because these three took different paths......

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Do you know what's cliche and aggravating? Twins fans giving a lifetime pass to management for making the playoffs a couple of times a decade ago in a poor division. Some of you almost deserve to be watching bad baseball. For the rest of us, it's painfully obvious that the front office needed a clean sweep five years ago. 

I think I made it pretty clear that Ryan deserves blame for many things... But situational hitting with RISP - when the team is actually one of the better-hitting teams with the bases empty - is misdirected anger.

 

Blame Ryan for the bullpen. Blame him for picking up Park when he wasn't necessary. Blame him for the rotation situation. Yeah, those are all legitimate front office complaints.

 

But situational hitting? No, not so much. The guys on the field get the blame for their incompetence in that regard. Not the coach, not the manager, not the front office. The guys on the field.

[alarp33]

 

I think I made it pretty clear that Ryan deserves blame for many things... But situational hitting with RISP - when the team is actually one of the better-hitting teams with the bases empty - is misdirected anger.

 

Blame Ryan for the bullpen. Blame him for picking up Park when he wasn't necessary. Blame him for the rotation situation. Yeah, those are all legitimate front office complaints.

 

But situational hitting? No, not so much. The guys on the field get the blame for their incompetence in that regard. Not the coach, not the manager, not the front office. The guys on the field.

 

To be fair, I think you were the only one who brought up situational hitting. The original post commented on the poor lineup construction (heavily right handed (my words), swing and miss guys, with low OBP)

[gunnarthor]

 

Based on their young stars coming and succeeding right away? Based on them trading off their assets to go all in on a rebuild? Based on what? Because these three took different paths......

So we want to fire Ryan b/c Buxton isn't hitting like Correa and Bryant?  Lunhow's trades haven't helped much (at least not yet).  A lot of the success of the Astros team last year was b/c of Wade's moves before he was fired.  The tanking for the top pick strategy is still in doubt.  As is trading away a ton of talent for Giles.

 

Ryan didn't have guys like Shark to trade.  Perkins was the closest thing.

 

All three teams were in different places when the GMs took over and all three had different problems.  All three focused on improving the minor league talent first.  All three teams sucked until last year.  All three teams have a nice young nucleus.  Both MN and Houston are starting a little wonky this year.  Both will be fine.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

To be fair, I think you were the only one who brought up situational hitting. The original post commented on the poor lineup construction (heavily right handed (my words), swing and miss guys, with low OBP)

It still doesn't explain how a handful of perfectly capable hitters suddenly turn into Sal Butera - not Drew, but his 60 year old dad - with the bat the moment a runner gets on base.

 

This team is one of the better-hitting teams with the bases empty. They're 60% of the next worse team with runners on base.

 

There's no excuse for this offense to be performing at this level because they're just fine with the bases empty.

 

Normalize this offense with RISP and the Twins are 3-5 at worst.

 

And the guys holding the bats get the blame for their failure to execute on the field. Sure, I'm pissed about the bullpen, just like everybody else. I'm irritated that the rotation has too many vets and too few youngsters (though it's hard to argue the results thus far), but if this offense simply does their job - the job they're doing with the bases empty - the Twins are not winless. Not even close to it.

 

Eight games and this team has scored three runs twice. That's their high water mark.

[gocgo]

What we need is a rainout...and a whole bunch of Cheongju...compliments of Byung Ho Park.  Look it up.

 

This team needs to go out and get rip snorting drunk.  What could it hurt?

[alarp33]

 

It still doesn't explain how a handful of perfectly capable hitters suddenly turn into Sal Butera - not Drew, but his 60 year old dad - with the bat the moment a runner gets on base.

 

This team is one of the better-hitting teams with the bases empty. They're 60% of the next worse team with runners on base.

 

There's no excuse for this offense to be performing at this level because they're just fine with the bases empty.

 

Normalize this offense with RISP and the Twins are 3-5 at worst.

 

And the guys holding the bats get the blame for their failure to execute on the field. Sure, I'm pissed about the bullpen, just like everybody else. I'm irritated that the rotation has too many vets and too few youngsters (though it's hard to argue the results thus far), but if this offense simply does their job - the job they're doing with the bases empty - the Twins are not winless. Not even close to it.

 

Eight games and this team has scored three runs twice. That's their high water mark.

 

I would guess the point of the original post was, if you put together a lineup like this, composed of high k, low obp guys like this, you are prone to pretty heavy slumps.  I would say especially at a beginning of the season when pitchers are generally "ahead" of hitters anyways.  

 

Of course the RISP is going to improve great, of course they are going to score runs.  But I think the roster construction plays into the 8 game struggle

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I would guess the point of the original post was, if you put together a lineup like this, composed of high k, low obp guys like this, you are prone to pretty heavy slumps.  I would say especially at a beginning of the season when pitchers are generally "ahead" of hitters anyways.  

 

Of course the RISP is going to improve great, of course they are going to score runs.  But I think the roster construction plays into the 8 game struggle

Sure, Buxton, Park, and Sano flailing away at pitches is going to hurt the team... But what is frustrating me the most is their ability to get on base when it "doesn't count" and their complete incompetence when it "does count".

 

And while I'm also pissed at Molitor for being embarrassingly out-coached (that Rosario sac last night was Little League ****), most of my anger is directed at the players because they're the ones failing to execute time. and time. and time again when it matters most.

 

If those players were also failing at the same rate with the bases empty, then it's more of a clear indication the front office screwed up and picked the wrong players. But they're not failing with the bases empty.

[Willihammer]

They need to slap a pair of handcuffs on Glunny over at third base when they get a baserunner. Let the batters focus on, you know, batting. That's how they get the baserunners in the first place. Not by putting on plays.

 

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[d-mac]

 

I think I made it pretty clear that Ryan deserves blame for many things... But situational hitting with RISP - when the team is actually one of the better-hitting teams with the bases empty - is misdirected anger.

 

Blame Ryan for the bullpen. Blame him for picking up Park when he wasn't necessary. Blame him for the rotation situation. Yeah, those are all legitimate front office complaints.

 

But situational hitting? No, not so much. The guys on the field get the blame for their incompetence in that regard. Not the coach, not the manager, not the front office. The guys on the field.

 

Sure, SSS leads to some goofy splits. But this offense has the highest K%- leads the #2 team 1.4%, the next 4 teams are separated by only 1.2%. This team has the 4th lowest ISO in baseball. They are right about league average for BB% and BABIP. Does situational hitting influence why we have scored the fewest runs in baseball (23 less than the median team)? Sure, but some of that is SSS. But at some point you have to call a spade a spade. This offense is bad. Like historically bad contact rates bad.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sure, Buxton, Park, and Sano flailing away at pitches is going to hurt the team... But what is frustrating me the most is their ability to get on base when it "doesn't count" and their complete incompetence when it "does count".

 

And while I'm also pissed at Molitor for being embarrassingly out-coached (that Rosario sac last night was Little League ****), most of my anger is directed at the players because they're the ones failing to execute time. and time. and time again when it matters most.

 

If those players were also failing at the same rate with the bases empty, then it's more of a clear indication the front office screwed up and picked the wrong players. But they're not failing with the bases empty.

 

Not the first time he's called for sacrifices, and let Suzuki hit late in games as the tying run.....and it won't be the last time either. This is who Molitor is.

[d-mac]

 

I find it more aggravating that fans want to burn the place down after 8 games.  If you think Hoyer or Lunhow are on the right path, than you should think the Twins are.  

 

I didn't come to this conclusion yesterday. I've been very vocal in calling for a clean house in the front office since 2011, going back to my days on the other site.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I find it more aggravating that fans want to burn the place down after 8 games.  If you think Hoyer or Lunhow are on the right path, than you should think the Twins are.  

 

Are you sure this is based only on 8 games?

[alarp33]

 

Not the first time he's called for sacrifices, and let Suzuki hit late in games as the tying run.....and it won't be the last time either. This is who Molitor is.

 

And now he has Kepler on the bench today, Park back in the lineup.  Can someone please explain to me what in the world he is doing. How does this make any sense with Rodon on the mound yesterday, and Latos today

[d-mac]

 

So we want to fire Ryan b/c Buxton isn't hitting like Correa and Bryant?  Lunhow's trades haven't helped much (at least not yet).  A lot of the success of the Astros team last year was b/c of Wade's moves before he was fired.  The tanking for the top pick strategy is still in doubt.  As is trading away a ton of talent for Giles.

 

Ryan didn't have guys like Shark to trade.  Perkins was the closest thing.

 

All three teams were in different places when the GMs took over and all three had different problems.  All three focused on improving the minor league talent first.  All three teams sucked until last year.  All three teams have a nice young nucleus.  Both MN and Houston are starting a little wonky this year.  Both will be fine.

 

No, I'm not mad because he's not hitting. I knew he wasn't going to hit. I'm mad because Ryan rushed him to the majors. Just like in countless situations before he makes a risky bet on a player, with no back-up options. This is literally the EXACT same situation as when Aaron Hicks made his debut. Except this time, Buxton is more important to the future of this team and he's failing even more spectacularly. 

[gunnarthor]

 

And now he has Kepler on the bench today, Park back in the lineup.  Can someone please explain to me what in the world he is doing. How does this make any sense with Rodon on the mound yesterday, and Latos today

Yeah, that was weird.  Kepler's up b/c only he and Walker are on the 40 man, so that makes sense.  But starting him against the lefty didn't.  I also thought that Molitor would give Kepler a few starts in a row.  

[Twinfan & Dad]

 

I would guess the point of the original post was, if you put together a lineup like this, composed of high k, low obp guys like this, you are prone to pretty heavy slumps.  I would say especially at a beginning of the season when pitchers are generally "ahead" of hitters anyways.  

 

Of course the RISP is going to improve great, of course they are going to score runs.  But I think the roster construction plays into the 8 game struggle

This hits the nail on the head for the point I'm making. This streak will be one of many with this line-up. Hitting is contagious as we know so we can also expect streaks with multiple homerun games but consistency, not with this all or none group.

[lukeduke1980]

 

But situational hitting? No, not so much. The guys on the field get the blame for their incompetence in that regard. Not the coach, not the manager, not the front office. The guys on the field.

I agree.  What is a 'free swinger'?  An undisciplined young player unaware of the pitcher, the pitches he can throw in the situation of the game.  I don't know how you develop that discipline - perhaps its just by experience thus the awful growing pains.

[Rosterman]

So who do we replace and how.

 

Gamble #1 was Park. He is a swinger. He hits for power once he figures everything out. Remember, ALL the ballparks (including Target Field) are totally new to this guy. But our alternatives were three: Vargas, Arcia and Sano. Out of the three, Vargas has experience. Arcia does too, but he's a free swinger. Sano need to work extra hard to keep the league from adjusting to him and his faults.

 

The infield. Mauer is back. But do you replace Dozier with Polanco, who might be able to be groomed to put the ball in play and show some speed. dozier does have speed. he does have power. He does strikeout. Escobar hs been a revelation. Why is he hitting 7th. Of course, would we rather have one guy stranded in an ainning than have him and Mauer bat together and have two stranded.

 

Yes, we could replace Plouffe at third with Sano. Pretty much a swap out on strikeouts. Sano ahs potential, but still learning. We know what Plouffe does, and he does it well, when he does it. But then that would've left us with Arcia and Vargas at DH. So we aren't improving anything.

 

Rosario is not know as the walk king. Buxton is still oevrmatched. Kepler needs more time in AAA. So we replace two of these guys with Quentin or Wheeler and Mastro. Suddenly we maybe have two guys who still strikeout, but maybe not as much. Mastro could maybe humpstart some things with his slap happy put the ball in play and ability to move from base-to-base. But the two discarded spring training choices were coming off of seasons largely sitting.

 

So, would we be betetr of replacing Dozier with Polanco, Buxton with Mastro, Plouffe with Sano, Sano with Quentin, and Park with Vargas/Arcia?

 

Or is it more a simple matter of lineup construction. And working harder with the guys to take more pitches, and maybe try a few different things rather than just swing and miss at the ball. We could field a line-up of pitchers to do that.

 

I am even more interested in what opposing teams are telling themselves as they look at the Twins. "Just throw strikes right away...these guys can't afford to watch the ball go by and if they do, then we get ahead." 

 

Something is not right on the field. You have the cage. You have batting practice. You have Brunansky, Hernandez, Vavra. You have Molitor. You can call in Carew and Kelly and Hunter and Hrbek and Oliva. You can drag Gladden down from the booth. There is no shortage of advice of people who can work with these guys. Heck, you even have Smalley and Laudner lounging around.

 

Park happened. He can add something to the mix that maybe is missing. The other pieces are still works in progress. We have a couple that may be replaceable overtime (Plouffe and maybe Dozier), but I do want Buxton, Arcia, Rosario, Sano, and then Polanco, Kepler, Gordon (and wait until we see Walker swinging away up here) rather than Mastro, other guys looking for a job, the return of Lew Ford, whatever.

 

It is a rare rookie that steps up to the plate and does do everything right. And then Twins have a crop of them. It is frustrating. It is a learning experience. It is almost jokingly funny to be 0-8 with a ton of strikeouts and we can still say "the pitching has been great except for some bullpen blips." 

 

As a fan, I want to be in the clubhouse and hearing the plan, but that is totally unnecessary. What goes on behind-the-scenes is between the management, staff and players. They are trying their darndest to figure it out. In every game, someone ahs to lose (look at the LOOKOUTS, not having the best start either). 

 

When they do figure it out, and if they have the time, I hope Molitor and Company do share their insights...if they have the time. 

 

Just know, folks, it really can't get much worse. 

 

 

 

 

[rghrbek]

 

And now he has Kepler on the bench today, Park back in the lineup.  Can someone please explain to me what in the world he is doing. How does this make any sense with Rodon on the mound yesterday, and Latos today

 

This.   He plays both Rosario and Kepler vs. Rodon, who is a lefty.   Why bring Kepler up here in the first place?   They are not going to play him much.   If the 40 man is the only reason, well then someone does need to be let go.    Guys like Dean on the 40 man are disposable.   That Rodriguez dude is tearing it up in AAA.

 

I also trust a 29 year old slumping player (right handed batter) to maybe know how to make adjustments over playing another lefty rookie or 2nd year in the line up last night.