Terry Ryan- I am not a fan

[TheLeviathan]

 

Javier Baez or Levi Michael?  Almonte or Buxton?   Bryant or Stewart? Schwarber or Gordon.  Happ or Jay? Similar draft picks? One or two slots up may make a difference. Rondon or Pressley?  It even matters in rule5

Similar  assests to trade. Twins equivalent for Cashmier and Samadiija available for trade?  After 2011 what player did they have from their farm system to trade for top talent

 

Arrieta was acquired via the signing of Scott Feldman.  But you were adamant at the time that Arrieta was a total bum and a stupid trade.  

 

Sometimes, when you gamble on upside, the payoffs are beyond what you expect.  

[jud6312]

 

All I continue to hear from the pro Ryan crowd is excuse after excuse:

"Oh well nobody wanted Plouffe"
"Ryan didnt sign any real RP because we have young guys in the minors"

Etc

Ryan gets a solid D+ from me since he has been back, and a big fat F for this off season. Hopefully the farm system that Bill Smith helped build can bail him out (Sano, etc)

I'm not a Ryan fan by any stretch of the imagination, but a D+?

 

He went outside his box and spent some money on a (potentially) big bat. He got a Top-30 prospect in exchange for Chris Herrmann. He didn't resign Deunsing or Boyer. He didn't go out and find another Bartlett or Kubel redemption project to waste a roster spot on. He didn't overpay for another veteran starter. And, as much as I was hoping to see Sano at 3B this season, he didn't trade Plouffe (an asset) just for the sake of making a trade.

 

Also, he let Nick Punto retire.

 

A+? Nope, but definitely better than a D+.

 

 

[sorney]

 

I'm not a Ryan fan by any stretch of the imagination, but a D+?

 

He went outside his box and spent some money on a (potentially) big bat. He got a Top-30 prospect in exchange for Chris Herrmann. He didn't resign Deunsing or Boyer. He didn't go out and find another Bartlett or Kubel redemption project to waste a roster spot on. He didn't overpay for another veteran starter. And, as much as I was hoping to see Sano at 3B this season, he didn't trade Plouffe (an asset) just for the sake of making a trade.

 

Also, he let Nick Punto retire.

 

A+? Nope, but definitely better than a D+.

Not a Ryan fan either, but he absolutely gets an A+ overall just for letting Punto retire....that had to take some serious stones not to pull the trigger.

[old nurse]

 

Arrieta was acquired via the signing of Scott Feldman.  But you were adamant at the time that Arrieta was a total bum and a stupid trade.  

 

Sometimes, when you gamble on upside, the payoffs are beyond what you expect.  

Yup, was wrong on Arrietta. How does that change the observation that over the last few years the team selecting players in the draft have gotten the far better player despite being "close to the same " pick,. Also it is one trade that worked. Also the one the few scrap heap signing that year that worked.  When the gambles do not work out like trading oft injured shortstops for relief pitchers, or young starting pitching for a multi talented outfielder that never utilizes the talent, you end up fired. 

 

Gambling on upside. Alex Meyer. San Diego gambled on upside and ended up with a mid rotation starter for Rizzo.  When they are wrong, they are criticized as the hindsight here is 20-20

[Major League Ready]

 

I'm not at all saying you can't win with homegrown players... in fact the Astros are exactly how I would have built the Twins if I were in charge starting in 2011... An aggressive rebuild; sell off everything of value, shrewd trades and drafting (Correa underslot, McCullers later) etc. They wouldn't have given up a draft pick to sign another #3-4 starter with no upside.  

 

We'll have to see how 2016 plays out.  If 88 wins is a real possibility, you can't discount the fact that 70 wins is also a real possibility  (Seeing as most projections have them in the mid to upp 70 range).  If 88 wins happens, I sure as hell hope an aggressive offseason is planned to take an even bigger step next year.  If 70 wins happens, I hope they clean house in the front office, but fear/know they won't. 

I agree completely with how you framed up rebuilding.  This F/O and perhaps the Pohlads just refuse to go into rebuild more.  I presume it's because sucking that bad is bad for revenue in the short-term and might also damage the brand.  I say might because I don't have sufficient information by which to conclude if this true.

 

The other side of this is the insistence by many that the Twins WONT spend.   Many do an exceptional job with statistics here but when it comes to offering evidence and support for the claims people make about spending, well lets be nice and say it is absent.  The Cubs generated $50M more in 2014 and when the numbers come out this spring I would guess that difference will be $75M or more in 2015.

 

It is also completely ignored that one team in the Twin's revenue class has signed an elite SP to 5 year contract unless we count Arizona signing Grienke.  Given they just signed a billion dollar TV contract, that is not a rational comparison.

 

I also never see anyone put up the revenue or profit numbers in support of these arguments.  Anything I have ever seen confirms the Twins spending and profits are consistent with virtually every other team.  The Tigers have been an outlier but while I would love to have the outlier owner and don't expect it.

 

You also never see any of the people who say the Twin's FO suck post any win percentages relative to revenue.  The fact is that even with the very poor past 4 years, the Twins still have a better win percentage this century than every team with equal or less revenue with the exception of the A's.  Of course, the way the A's were the king of value acquisitions and selling off good players.

[jimmer]

 

Not a Ryan fan either, but he absolutely gets an A+ overall just for letting Punto retire....that had to take some serious stones not to pull the trigger.

Would have been harder for TR to let Punto retire if Gardy was still manager of the Twins :-)