Baseball America's Top 20 GCL Prospects

[Seth Stohs]

This morning, Baseball America posted its GCL Top 20 Prospects.

 

Just one Twins minor leaguer made the list, Jermaine Palacios at #17.

 

 

What I find interesting is that yesterday in their Appy League rankings, they had Palacios at #3 with Daz Cameron at #5. In the GCL, Palacios is #17 while Cameron is #4.

[amjgt]

Just look at their stats in the GCL and you will laugh even more.

 

Palacios' OPS is almost twice as high as Cameron's

[sane]

 

This morning, Baseball America posted its GCL Top 20 Prospects.

Just one Twins minor leaguer made the list, Jermaine Palacios at #17.

What I find interesting is that yesterday in their Appy League rankings, they had Palacios at #3 with Daz Cameron at #5. In the GCL, Palacios is #17 while Cameron is #4.

I think it may be that Palacios did not have enough PA in the GCL to qualify for BA title....He was promoted to soon.

[sane]

TOO soon.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I think it may be that Palacios did not have enough PA in the GCL to qualify for BA title....He was promoted to soon.

 

But then he wouldn't be on the list at all...

 

Also, prospect rankings have pretty much nothing to do with stats on the field, especially at the lowest levels of the minors. 

[Boone]

 

 

_{I would have liked to have seen Lachlan Wells make this list.}  

 

_{Of the 85 pitchers who threw over 30 innings, Wells had the 7th highest strikeout rate (26.5%) and his of 4.45 was the 13th best (FYI his BB rate was 6.0%).  Plus, at 18, he's super young (13th youngest of those 85 with at least 30 IP).}

 

_{Yes, I know he's only 5 foot 8 (although he might not be done growing).  But between his numbers and youth, he seems to have a bright future, even if it's out of the bullpen.}  

[sane]

"prospect rankings have pretty much nothing to do with stats on the field"

Then how do they justify "in their Appy League rankings, they had Palacios at #3 with Daz Cameron at #5. In the GCL, Palacios is #17 while Cameron is #4"?

Did Palacios and Cameron trade tools when they were promoted?

[Seth Stohs]

 

_{I would have liked to have seen Lachlan Wells make this list.}  

 

_{Of the 85 pitchers who threw over 30 innings, Wells had the 7th highest strikeout rate (26.5%) and his of 4.45 was the 13th best (FYI his BB rate was 6.0%).  Plus, at 18, he's super young (13th youngest of those 85 with at least 30 IP).}

 

_{Yes, I know he's only 5 foot 8 (although he might not be done growing).  But between his numbers and youth, he seems to have a bright future, even if it's out of the bullpen.}  

 

I talked to Lewis Thorpe a little about Lachlan Wells. He's 6-0, 185 now. They roomed together at the Twins academy all season.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Then how do they justify "in their Appy League rankings, they had Palacios at #3 with Daz Cameron at #5. In the GCL, Palacios is #17 while Cameron is #4"?
Did Palacios and Cameron trade tools when they were promoted?

 

I can't justify them... it doesn't make sense. They're the exact same player regardless of league, so consistency would make sense. 

 

My assumption is that different people were in charge of the league Top 20s and maybe didn't consult each other or something. 

[Thrylos]

Yeah, that is a goofy ranking of Palacios between the 2 leagues.  I bet the reason is 2 different writers and 2 different opinions...

[Dman]

So if Palalcios makes it into the Twins top 20 does that mean we will have 4 shortstop in the top 20?  Polanco, Gordon, Vielma and Palacios with Javier likely not far behind?  Middle infield should be good for a while.

[bird]

 

So if Palalcios makes it into the Twins top 20 does that mean we will have 4 shortstop in the top 20?  Polanco, Gordon, Vielma and Palacios with Javier likely not far behind?  Middle infield should be good for a while.

 

 

We could dig up comments from 3 years ago adamantly claiming the Twins were inherently incapable of scouting and developing middle infielders. This year, there have been fervent opinions expressed about how woefully inept the Twins are at scouting and developing high-velocity pitchers. I'm betting that catchers are the next category. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

it seems we have this BA top 20 discussion every year with short season guys who get promoted.  This isn't their official top 100.  Not that Palacios will be there, but a good year in Cedar Rapids and he'll be on it.

[amjgt]

 

Yeah, that is a goofy ranking of Palacios between the 2 leagues.  I bet the reason is 2 different writers and 2 different opinions...

 

Same thing happened with Austin Riley. #2 in Appy, and #10 in GCL. If you just looked at his numbers, you could believe it though. Much stronger in the Appy.

 

Ronald Acuna is the only other one that appears on both lists and his ranks is pretty consistent (#14/#11)

[Mike Sixel]

 

We could dig up comments from 3 years ago adamantly claiming the Twins were inherently incapable of scouting and developing middle infielders. This year, there have been fervent opinions expressed about how woefully inept the Twins are at scouting and developing high-velocity pitchers. I'm betting that catchers are the next category. 

 

When you don't develop any for a long time, is it really just bad luck?

 

Who was the last SS they drafted and developed that went on to a good MLB career as a SS?

[Mike Sixel]

And yes, the most likely explanation for the inconsistency is different staff members doing the rankings, not some gross incompetence by the organization. They've talked about that before on the site.....

[TRex]

From Baseball America:

 

• As a complement to our organization prospect rankings, Baseball America also ranks prospects in each minor league at the end of their seasons. Like the organization lists, they place more weight on potential than performance and should not be regarded as all-star teams.

  Unlike the organization lists, which are from more of a scouting perspective, the minor league lists reflect the views of minor league managers, who give more weight to what a player does on the field now. We think both perspectives are useful, so we give you both, even though they don’t always match up. For a player to qualify for a league prospect list, he must have spent at least one-third of the season in a league.

[jimmer]

Currently, no team has gone longer without having a starting pitcher in the All Star game than us. Not sure the complaint about the development of our starting pitchers is unwarranted.    And this will be the 5th year in a row that our pitching staff as a whole ranked dead last in the majors in Ks.  2010 was the last time we didn't, we were 25th that year, and we haven't been higher than 22nd since Johan left.

[sane]

Who was the last SS they drafted and developed that went on to a good MLB career as a SS?

Pat Meares drafted 1990, played until 2008?

[sane]

Correction - Meares played until 2001.

[launchingthrees]

 

Pat Meares drafted 1990, played until 2008?

 

A 2.6 career war player is your counterpoint? Is my sarcasm meter broken?

[sane]

A 2.6 career war player is your counterpoint? Is my sarcasm meter broken?

"Who was the last SS they drafted and developed that went on to a good MLB career as a SS?"

Counterpoint?

I had no idea we were arguing.

I just tried to answer your question.

If you prefer Greg Gagne or Zoilo Versalles, pick whichever one fits your unspecified requirements.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

This morning, Baseball America posted its GCL Top 20 Prospects.

 

Just one Twins minor leaguer made the list, Jermaine Palacios at #17.

 

 

What I find interesting is that yesterday in their Appy League rankings, they had Palacios at #3 with Daz Cameron at #5. In the GCL, Palacios is #17 while Cameron is #4.

Another middle infielder in the GCL, 2B Luis Arraez was named to the All Rookie League team as top 2B by Baseball America.  18yo, in 207 AB, posted a line of .309/ .377/.391/.768 with 19BB, 10K, 8/16 in SB.  In the Instructional League right now, playing some 3B as well.

[Bob Sacamento]

Palacios gets some love despite being at #17:

 

BA synopsis:

-signed for only 70K

-good bat control

-good strikezone judgement

-smart hitter, gamer, high baseball iq

-swing designed for linedrives

-makes routine plays at SS, strong arm, quick release

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

When you don't develop any for a long time, is it really just bad luck?

 

Who was the last SS they drafted and developed that went on to a good MLB career as a SS?

 

Kinda agree, but when you trade for young talent (Guzman) or perceived talent (Punto,) you don't have much of a need to draft and/or sign shortstops.  After that, for some reason most of the SS they drafted and signed went on to play other positions.   Polanco will likely be the first SS they signed who will go one to have a good MLB career as a SS.

[ashbury]

 

"Who was the last SS they drafted and developed that went on to a good MLB career as a SS?"
If you prefer Greg Gagne or Zoilo Versalles, pick whichever one fits your unspecified requirements.

Gagne was obtained in trade from the Yankees, though in fairness he was developed partly by the Twins.

 

Zoilo started before there was even a draft. As a Cubano, he wouldn't have been eligible for the draft anyway.

[bird]

Success and failure at drafting players at various positions are a function of tons of factors. Competence, and even poor judgment, are at most extremely minor factors.

 

Most of the scouts who some labeled incompetent when we had a dearth of middle infielders are the same guys who recommended the guys people are excited about today. Overnight, apparently, these scouts went from being lousy to being...lucky?

 

I don't buy it that there's been a some fundamental competence issue at the heart of the drought in pitching prospects in the past, nor do I think the promising future pitching means these same scouts have a superior capability.

 

People want to make the correlation, especially when it supports a belief that incompetence has been on display. 

[jimmer]

'People want to make the correlation, especially when it supports a belief that incompetence has been on display.'

 

Some people want to say everyone on the Twins scouting/development staff is competent by discounting all the evidence to the contrary as a coincidence.

 

This will be the 5th year in a row that our pitching staff as a whole ranked dead last in the majors in Ks.  2010 was the last time we didn't, we were 25th that year, and we haven't been higher than 22nd since Johan left.  This kind of consistency isn't just some fluke.  And I wouldn't count any chickens before they are hatched in regards to this supposed guarantee this coincidence is about to turn around.

 

 

[Thegrin]

An outstanding player on many, many  HS or American Legion teams pitches and plays SS.  Naturally most of them  would move to other positions as they mature and the competition gets stiffer.  

[jokin]

 

Another middle infielder in the GCL, 2B Luis Arraez was named to the All Rookie League team as top 2B by Baseball America.  18yo, in 207 AB, posted a line of .309/ .377/.391/.768 with 19BB, 10K, 8/16 in SB.  In the Instructional League right now, playing some 3B as well.

 

And almost a year younger than Palacios, and he bats left handed- his plate discipline was outstanding both in the DSL and the GCL.  Looking forward to any reports you might have, Bob, on how both Arraez and Palacios are doing this month.