25 man roster with ESantana

[Hartfordtwinsfan]

I know playoffs are limited to 25 players on a roster for a series and with injuries and such you can have someone brought up after September 1st and be added to playoff roster.

 

What happens this year with Santana?? With the suspension, and him not being eligible for post season, can we add a 25th at any time in September? Could this be berrios???

[Minniman]

Does the Wild Card game count as a playoff game?

 

If Santana pitches well here on out, is he out for that game if the Twins find their way in?

[Platoon]

Does the Wild Card game count as a playoff game?

 

If Santana pitches well here on out, is he out for that game if the Twins find their way in?

WC and a game 163, he is not eligible.

[Squirrel]

WC and a game 163, he is not eligible.

Why not eligible for game 163? If a game 163 is needed to determine which team will be the 2nd WC, it's still considered part of the regular season. I thought Santana was only ineligible for post-season play. Am I wrong?

 

Does the Wild Card game count as a playoff game?

 

If Santana pitches well here on out, is he out for that game if the Twins find their way in?

No, the WC game is part of the post-season. It is NOT synonymous with a game 163 playoff game. At least that is my understanding. This was discussed in another thread which became very confusing because of the title of the thread.

 

As to when/how they replace Santana for the post-season, I'm not sure about that. I think it would likely work similar to a DL replacement?

 

Would whoever takes Santana's place for the post-season have to be on the 40-man by Sept. 1st? I wouldn't think so but I don't know all the details of these rules.

[DaveW]

Anyone can take Santana's roster spot as long as they are with the organization by Sept 1st.

If berrios earns a postseason roster spot, they will have no problem getting him onto said roster spot. People are worrying about a non issue

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Why not eligible for game 163? If a game 163 is needed to determine which team will be the 2nd WC, it's still considered part of the regular season. I thought Santana was only ineligible for post-season play. Am I wrong?

You are correct. Game 163 is a regular season game. It's how Morneau managed to play 163 games in 2008 or 2009.

 

The Wild Card game is a postseason game.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Anyone can take Santana's roster spot as long as they are with the organization by Sept 1st.

You mean "on the 40 man roster" by Sep. 1st, which is an important distinction for Berrios.

[nicksaviking]

 

Why not eligible for game 163? If a game 163 is needed to determine which team will be the 2nd WC, it's still considered part of the regular season. I thought Santana was only ineligible for post-season play. Am I wrong?

 

 

And I think the Twins should oporate under the assumption that there will be a game 163 and set up the rotation to make sure Santana would be pitching it.

[Squirrel]

And I think the Twins should oporate under the assumption that there will be a game 163 and set up the rotation to make sure Santana would be pitching it.

Absolutely. As long as he has found his 'groove' and continues to pitch like he did last night.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Why not eligible for game 163? If a game 163 is needed to determine which team will be the 2nd WC, it's still considered part of the regular season. I thought Santana was only ineligible for post-season play. Am I wrong?

 

Seems right, but this is incorrect.  Santana's ineligibility applies to any tiebreaker games too, according to Berardino:

 

 

Because Santana’s suspension began on Opening Day, he also would be ineligible to participate in any tiebreaker games in 2015

...

Should the Twins play a Game 163 for the third time in the past decade, Santana would be ineligible for that as well.

 

Sources:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/05/20/twinsights-ervin-santanas-penalty-includes-postseason-ban/

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/07/04/twinsights-ervin-santana-has-no-regrets-after-80-game-drug-suspension/

[stringer bell]

 

Seems right, but this is incorrect.  Santana's ineligibility applies to any tiebreaker games too, according to Berardino:

 

 

Sources:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/05/20/twinsights-ervin-santanas-penalty-includes-postseason-ban/

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/07/04/twinsights-ervin-santana-has-no-regrets-after-80-game-drug-suspension/

Yeah, I read that before and it does seen counterintuitive. Beradino is paid to get such things right, so I will go with his information until proven otherwise.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Seems right, but this is incorrect.  Santana's ineligibility applies to any tiebreaker games too, according to Berardino:

 

 

Sources:

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/05/20/twinsights-ervin-santanas-penalty-includes-postseason-ban/

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/07/04/twinsights-ervin-santana-has-no-regrets-after-80-game-drug-suspension/

I'm not sure Berardino is right about that... I've been digging into the MLB PED policy and this is the only reference I could find to a tie-breaker game (also did multiple searches on variations of postseason):

 

"A Player who began serving a 162-game suspension for a violation involving a Performance Enhancing Substance on the first day of a championship season also will be ineligible to participate in any tie-breaker games during that season after the completion of his suspension."

 

Obviously, Santana was not subjected to a 162 game suspension. The fact they directly referenced a 162 game suspension and tie-breakers (and failed to specify tie-breaker rules anywhere else in the 60+ page document) leads me to believe Berardino misread the rules.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

[Shane Wahl]

Berrios will be added anyway to the 40-man after the season, so they will just do it now. Jason Wheeler and Aaron Thompson will be removed. Thompson might be claimed, though I doubt it.

 

11 best pitchers for the playoffs: Berrios, Perkins, May, Gibson, Duffey, Hughes (!), Pelfrey, Milone, Jepsen, Cotts, Fien.

[Vanimal46]

So from the sounds of it, we have until the end of today to add Berrios to the 40 man for him to eligible on the playoff roster.

 

Does anyone think this is going to happen?

[Minniman]

 

Why not eligible for game 163? If a game 163 is needed to determine which team will be the 2nd WC, it's still considered part of the regular season. I thought Santana was only ineligible for post-season play. Am I wrong?

No, the WC game is part of the post-season. It is NOT synonymous with a game 163 playoff game. At least that is my understanding. This was discussed in another thread which became very confusing because of the title of the thread.

 

 

By Wild Card game, I meant game 163. Otherwise it is a playoffs series.

 

If Santana plays well, and the Twins get there, logically that game is his.

 

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Yeah, I read that before and it does seen counterintuitive. Beradino is paid to get such things right, so I will go with his information until proven otherwise.

Yes, it would be nice to have the original source for that bit of information.

 

I'm not sure Berardino is right about that... I've been digging into the MLB PED policy and this is the only reference I could find to a tie-breaker game (also did multiple searches on variations of postseason):

 

"A Player who began serving a 162-game suspension for a violation involving a Performance Enhancing Substance on the first day of a championship season also will be ineligible to participate in any tie-breaker games during that season after the completion of his suspension."

 

Obviously, Santana was not subjected to a 162 game suspension. The fact they directly referenced a 162 game suspension and tie-breakers (and failed to specify tie-breaker rules anywhere else in the 60+ page document) leads me to believe Berardino misread the rules.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

I looked through the same document, and found your quote to be the closest fit; however, you're correct, Santana's suspension was not 162 games, so it remains confusing. Though I surmise he will be ineligible for a 163. One shouldn't have to surmise though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Okay, this thread needs some terminology clarification:

 

Playoff: The term formerly used by MLB for a game 163 single-game elimination between clubs with the same record after the 162 game season.

 

Tie-Breaker: Due to the confusion over the word "playoff", this is MLB's new term for a game 163 single-game elimination between clubs with the same record after the 162 game season.

 

Both of the above terms refer to regular season games (though the Santana suspension is still up in the air) and teams that lose game 163 do not participate in the...

 

Postseason: Wild Card games, AL/NLDS, AL/NLCS, World Series.

[Buford_T_Justice]

 

Berrios will be added anyway to the 40-man after the season, so they will just do it now. Jason Wheeler and Aaron Thompson will be removed. Thompson might be claimed, though I doubt it.

 

11 best pitchers for the playoffs: Berrios, Perkins, May, Gibson, Duffey, Hughes (!), Pelfrey, Milone, Jepsen, Cotts, Fien.

Is Pelfrey a reliever in this staff? We sure won't need 5 starters in the playoffs, and he hasn't been getting anyone out lately. Maybe swap out Pelf for Duensing? He's gotten some people out recently and my limited understanding of a bullpen is that getting people out is a good thing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Berrios will be added anyway to the 40-man after the season, so they will just do it now. Jason Wheeler and Aaron Thompson will be removed. Thompson might be claimed, though I doubt it.

 

11 best pitchers for the playoffs: Berrios, Perkins, May, Gibson, Duffey, Hughes (!), Pelfrey, Milone, Jepsen, Cotts, Fien.

Berrios doesn't have to be added this winter. So if they want to shut him down, they may keep him off the 40-man until 2016. I hope not, though.

[Squirrel]

By Wild Card game, I meant game 163. Otherwise it is a playoffs series.

 

If Santana plays well, and the Twins get there, logically that game is his.

This is the confusion, though, when talking about this. It's NOT Game 163. Yes, while it could be the 163rd game of the year, it is not the 163rd game of regular season play. In an 'official' sense Game 163 is played when determining post season eligibility in case of a tie and is considered to be part of the regular season. The one-game WC game is part of the post season. They aren't the same.

 

Edit: okay, see Brock's post above.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This is the confusion, though, when talking about this. It's NOT game 163. Yes, while it's technically the 163rd game of the year, it is not the 163rd game of regular season play. In an 'official' sense game 163 is played when determining post season eligibility in case of a tie and is considered to be part of the regular season. The one-game WC game is part of the post season. They aren't the same.

Yep. MLB no longer has "playoff" games. They have "tie-breaker" games and "postseason" games.

 

We should stop using the word "playoffs" in baseball entirely, as it only causes confusion.

[Squirrel]

Yep. MLB no longer has "playoff" games. They have "tie-breaker" games and "postseason" games.

 

We should stop using the word "playoffs" in baseball entirely, as it only causes confusion.

Meh, I'm still confused, but I think I get it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Meh, I'm still confused, but I think I get it.

It's easy. The Twins have participated in two "playoff" games (now referred to as "tie-breaker" games): 2008, 2009.

 

The Twins have participated in a bunch of postseason games: 1965, 1969, 1970, 1987, 1991, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010.

[Minniman]

 

This is the confusion, though, when talking about this. It's NOT Game 163. Yes, while it could be the 163rd game of the year, it is not the 163rd game of regular season play. In an 'official' sense Game 163 is played when determining post season eligibility in case of a tie and is considered to be part of the regular season. The one-game WC game is part of the post season. They aren't the same.
 

 

I meant the WIld Card game which is not really a tie break game 163 but the extra game set up to add two more teams to the playoffs and burn their best starters for the actual playoff series to come.

[Minniman]

We should stop using the word "playoffs" in baseball entirely, as it only causes confusion.

 

 

Well, I don't like the Wild Card postseason game anyway.

 

[stringer bell]

I don't know if this fits here or in the loophole thread, but here goes: Is there a playoff roster that must be submitted today? If so, do all players on it have to be currently on the 25-man roster or the disabled list?

 

I understand that players can be substituted for once the (real or imaginary) list is submitted. My thought is that the Twins submit a list including all of their disabled players plus Santana and then are free to substitute for Graham, Nolasco, and Santana. I understand that it can be anyone in the organization so Berrios could be added.

 

However, what if Graham is activated in September and the Twins make the postseason? Does he have to be on their roster? Can someone on the active list (say Herrmann or O'Rourke) be bumped by someone not currently on the 25-man (Vargas)?

[DuluthFan]

 

 Is there a playoff roster that must be submitted today?

 

 

No, rosters are NOT SUBMITTED TODAY. They are submitted right before the post season starts.

 

However, players ELIGIBLE for the postseason roster must be in the organization / on the 40 man roster as per rules discussed elsewhere by today.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't know if this fits here or in the loophole thread, but here goes: Is there a playoff roster that must be submitted today? If so, do all players on it have to be currently on the 25-man roster or the disabled list?

 

I understand that players can be substituted for once the (real or imaginary) list is submitted. My thought is that the Twins submit a list including all of their disabled players plus Santana and then are free to substitute for Graham, Nolasco, and Santana. I understand that it can be anyone in the organization so Berrios could be added.

 

However, what if Graham is activated in September and the Twins make the postseason? Does he have to be on their roster? Can someone on the active list (say Herrmann or O'Rourke) be bumped by someone not currently on the 25-man (Vargas)?

Nope. That used to be the rule, but no longer. Postseason rosters can be assembled from scratch at the start of each series, choosing from all players on the 40-man or DL (and possibly the organization) as of midnight tonight.

 

So today's 25 man roster doesn't really mean anything for the postseason.

[ashbury]

You mean "on the 40 man roster" by Sep. 1st....

"...or on the 60-Day DL and becomes eligible in time for the post season"?

 

/ edit - posted before quite finishing the thread, maybe this doesn't add any nuance?