Struggling Orioles as a Trade Partner?

[mudcat14]

How about Arcia & one of the A/AA fireballing relievers for impending FA's Matt Weiters & Darren O'Day? Shores up a couple of weak spots for the Twins without being too costly. Arcia still has enough upside for the O's, who face a major off-season retooling.

 

Apologies to those who hate these trade proposal threads. But I live in southern Iowa. Where the hell else can one confer with dialed in Twins fans about these ideas?

[nicksaviking]

I like the trade proposal threads usually, even if I don't like the trades.

 

I'd hesitate with this one as I still like Arcia a lot but mostly because I don't think Wieters can catch full time anymore. He isn't for Baltimore any way.

 

Edit: I take that back, he has been playing a lot since the AS break. Just not very well.

[David HK]

How about that young first baseman they've got over there?  Ummm... Parmagiana?  Parmaloo?  Oh, wait.  Never mind.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Wieters and O'Day could be the best guys actually traded at their positions this month. Baltimore could be a lot more selective about their return than a AAA banished Arcia and questionable relief prospect.

[kab21]

Something like this might actually work.  My first reaction was 'Here is another doozy' but Wieters is a FA after the season and the O's are 3 games below .500.  Wieters has also struggled so we wouldn't have to give up the world either.

 

It looks like he hasn't come close to recovering yet.  Usually he is a better hitter as a RHB but this year he can't do anything right handed.  But it takes some AB's away from suzuki and more importantly it takes them away from Suzuki's backup.

 

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but Arcia has been ice cold since the AS break.  7 games - 5/30 with 12 K's and 1BB  I'm not sure how his trade value is perceived around the league. 

[DaveW]

Wieters and O'Day could be the best guys actually traded at their positions this month. Baltimore could be a lot more selective about their return than a AAA banished Arcia and questionable relief prospect.

O day won't be the best RP traded, wieters value has dropped a ton, I don't think it would take much to get him.

 

Wieters or AJ as a 50/50 split with Suzuki would be ideal IMO

[TheLeviathan]

I love the idea of targeting Wieters, but there is a good chance the Orioles give him a QO so the trade package would have to exceed that in value.  

[Linus]

No rentals for prospects with some potential. I'm not the biggest Arcia fan but no way do I give him up for rental players.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Wieters or AJ as a 50/50 split with Suzuki would be ideal IMO

I'd be fine with either choice but I think Pierzynski is more likely because he'll cost a lot less.

[Otto von Ballpark]

O day won't be the best RP traded, wieters value has dropped a ton, I don't think it would take much to get him.

 

Wieters or AJ as a 50/50 split with Suzuki would be ideal IMO

I am not nearly as confident as you that Papelbon and Chapman will be traded this week. O'Day might have a claim to being the best reliever actually moved, better than Benoit, Cishek, etc.

 

And Wieters is no AJ.

[Otto von Ballpark]

No rentals for prospects with some potential. I'm not the biggest Arcia fan but no way do I give him up for rental players.

Arcia is still young but he is not a prospect anymore. Or, if we are trying to spin him as some developing AAA prospect with over 2 years of MLB service time and no options left, that should give you some clue to his trade value.

[TheLeviathan]

If we could acquire Wieters and lock him into a 4yr/60M deal (or something) - does that make him a more attractive candidate to people?

 

I fully expect him to post a few more .750ish OPS seasons once he is fully recovered.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the O's are willing to move him, that probably suggests he wants to test the market. I might bid that for him, though.

[Linus]

 

If we could acquire Wieters and lock him into a 4yr/60M deal (or something) - does that make him a more attractive candidate to people?

 

I fully expect him to post a few more .750ish OPS seasons once he is fully recovered.  

I'm not giving out any sizeable contracts to catchers with concussion problems. 

[Linus]

 

Arcia is still young but he is not a prospect anymore. Or, if we are trying to spin him as some developing AAA prospect with over 2 years of MLB service time and no options left, that should give you some clue to his trade value.

Call him what you want.  He still has a chance to be a good hitter and I'm not trading away that chance for 2 months of Weiter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm not giving out any sizeable contracts to catchers with concussion problems.

Wieters was out for TJ surgery, not concussion.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not giving out any sizeable contracts to catchers with concussion problems. 

 

You're going to have a hard time getting a good catcher then.  The Twins have plenty of money to make that investment.

[mudcat14]

I love the idea of targeting Wieters, but there is a good chance the Orioles give him a QO so the trade package would have to exceed that in value.

Over the past 2 1/2 years, Weiters has only played in 208 games with 30- HRs & and average below .250. Not sure that he gets a qualifying offer, and how much draft compensation he warrants with those numbers. O'Day may have more value in that regard. From the Orioles standpoint, can they get more value from a second or third round pick or two than they can from Arcia and say, Jake Reed or Zach Jones?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If we could acquire Wieters and lock him into a 4yr/60M deal (or something) - does that make him a more attractive candidate to people?

 

I fully expect him to post a few more .750ish OPS seasons once he is fully recovered.  

I don't see how the Twins could find more of a win-win situation, actually.

 

You give up a little for half a season of Wieters - probably a bit more than you would if you just wanted him for two months - and then get him as a free agent without giving up more prospects.

 

It fixes the short term, it fixes the long term... But it only costs the prospects of a short-term deal.

 

Yeah, Wieters has flaws. So does everybody else.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Over the past 2 1/2 years, Weiters has only played in 208 games with 30- HRs & and average below .250. Not sure that he gets a qualifying offer, and how much draft compensation he warrants with those numbers. O'Day may have more value in that regard. From the Orioles standpoint, can they get more value from a second or third round pick or two than they can from Arcia and say, Jake Reed or Zach Jones?

The comp draft round comes immediately after the first round now, and the player's stats/rank do not matter. Barring further injury, Wieters will get a QO, which means he will either come back to the O's at a slight discount (other teams will lose a pick for signing him) or he will net them a pretty decent pick if he leaves. All that is voided if he is traded now, though.

 

O'Day will not get a QO, it is basically a 1 yr, $16 mil contract offer.

[mudcat14]

The comp draft round comes immediately after the first round now, and the player's stats/rank do not matter. Barring further injury, Wieters will get a QO, which means he will either come back to the O's at a slight discount (other teams will lose a pick for signing him) or he will net them a pretty decent pick if he leaves. All that is voided if he is traded now, though.

 

O'Day will not get a QO, it is basically a 1 yr, $16 mil contract offer.

I confess, I'm not up to date on the compensation guidelines. But if O'Day, an 8-year vet who makes $4.25mil this year will get $16mil next year, what will 7-year vet Weiters get after making $8mil this season?

[ashbury]

I confess, I'm not up to date on the compensation guidelines. But if O'Day, an 8-year vet who makes $4.25mil this year will get $16mil next year, what will 7-year vet Weiters get after making $8mil this season?

I think spycake was just elaborating on why O'Day will not come close to receiving an QO.

[Otto von Ballpark]

O'Day won't get that much, that is the point. Your team has to make a qualifying offer, which is a 1 year, $16 mil offer, in order to be eligible for draft pick compensation if the player signs elsewhere.

 

And you can only extend a QO if the player was yours for the whole season. A deadline deal would make Wieters ineligible.

 

So, despite having an expiring contract on a fading team, the Orioles have some incentive to keep him (Wieters, that is).

[Otto von Ballpark]

Jaso and Jepsen from the Rays might be very obtainable, though.

[bluechipper]

Could you imagine what type of numbers Arcia would put up in Camden Yards and the rest of those AL east parks? I would bet 40+ HRs a year would be no problem.

[mudcat14]

O'Day won't get that much, that is the point. Your team has to make a qualifying offer, which is a 1 year, $16 mil offer, in order to be eligible for draft pick compensation if the player signs elsewhere.

 

And you can only extend a QO if the player was yours for the whole season. A deadline deal would make Wieters ineligible.

 

So, despite having an expiring contract on a fading team, the Orioles have some incentive to keep him (Wieters, that is).

Thanks for the clarification. Don't you think it unlikely (I do) that the O's would give Weiters a QO at $16mil? I think he'd almost certainly accept a doubling of his salary. With his recent history and overall track record, I think his best hope on the open market is a 3-4 year deal around $10mil/year. Unless of course, he goes on an absolute tear over the next 12 weeks.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Most players would prefer a 4/40 type deal to a 1/16. Heck, Cuddyer turned down 1/15 last winter and almost immediately signed for 2/21.

[Otto von Ballpark]

You don't have to be a star to get a QO. Almost any good starting player who is not that old should get one.

 

And no player has accepted one yet. Given the catching market, I doubt Wieters would be the first!

[mudcat14]

Jaso and Jepsen from the Rays might be very obtainable, though.

For good reason. Jepsen has as weak a K rate as our current choices. Jaso is an older, slower version of Chris Hermann. A little better with stick, but worse with the leather. I might give up the Vavra brothers for them, but that's about it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

For sure, Jepsen and Jaso are flawed. But they are more likely to be dealt, and cheaply, than almost any other trade target mentioned around here. They might be this year's Orlando Cabrera and Jon Rauch.