Time to make some moves!

[drjim]

 

The top three farm system hasto nothing offer?

 

Meyer and Buxton and soon Sano. That strikes me as something.

 

In my mind, Oliveros is the 7th reliever I would call up at this point - behind Meyer/Tonkin, Thielbar, and the big 3 in AA.

 

EDIT: Plus it has already offered Rosario and May this year. That's a pretty good year even if they don't call up the first three I mentioned.

[drjim]

 

I think Hicks is probably one of the top 3 outfielders in the organization at this point in time. He's an average offensive player, maybe a little less, but his defense has been top notch. Next year I expect our four outfielders to be Arcia, Buxton, Hicks and Rosario. Buxton will play center. Hicks will play right or, when Buxton has a day off, center. Arcia will play left or, when Vargas has a day off, DH. Rosario will play left or right when Hicks or Arcia has a day off. I'd anticipate that Hicks, Arcia and Rosario will get approximately equal playing time.

 

I think Sano is the starting RF on opening day next year.

[drjim]

 

I can get behind most of this, except maybe Hicks has a slight temporary edge in the field over Buxton, given Hicks' familiarity with MLB and he's fielding center really well right now. Hicks being prone to lapses, that might change, however.

 

I think the slight edge would be very temporary, all because of Buxton, not because of any Hicks lapse.

[Mike Sixel]

Meyer and Buxton and soon Sano. That strikes me as something.

 

In my mind, Oliveros is the 7th reliever I would call up at this point - behind Meyer/Tonkin, Thielbar, and the big 3 in AA.

 

EDIT: Plus it has already offered Rosario and May this year. That's a pretty good year even if they don't call up the first three I mentioned.

May wasn't up last year? Your post implied there were not eve RP options better than Duensing or Stauffer, or I may have read that wrong and it was about something else when you said there were not better options. There better be options better than them......

[blairpaul715]

 

Duensing and Stauffer have been bad for over a year.....and yet, here they remain. There is really no good reason either is here. None.

First I will preface this by saying, i wish Stauffer was not on the team, but saying Stauffer has been bad for over a yr is not true..........From June 5th of last yr to the end of last yr, he had a ERA of 2.56, with 40 K's in 38 2/3 innings........he has sucked this yr, but not for over the last yr.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

'Most ready' for a promotion doesnt mean 'ready' or ready for MLB, there is also AAA that most , not all prospects go thru before getting to the SHOW..........So nowhere did Dougie say Polanco is MLB ready, that is what you read , not what was said.

You are correct, I did twist it a little. I think what Mientkiewicz was quoted as saying was Polanco is "without question" the "most ready" to be promoted from among that group of Chattanooga guys. That's saying quite a bit. In that context I thought the reference is to MLB. For example, nobody is talking about whether Buxton is ready to be promoted to AAA Rochester.

[Craig Arko]

You are correct, I did twist it a little. I think what Mientkiewicz was quoted as saying was Polanco is "without question" the "most ready" to be promoted from among that group of Chattanooga guys. That's saying quite a bit. In that context I thought the reference is to MLB. For example, nobody is talking about whether Buxton is ready to be promoted to AAA Rochester.

Reusse predicts Buxton up here by June 17th. But then consider the source.

[blairpaul715]

 

You are correct, I did twist it a little. I think what Mientkiewicz was quoted as saying was Polanco is "without question" the "most ready" to be promoted from among that group of Chattanooga guys. That's saying quite a bit. In that context I thought the reference is to MLB. For example, nobody is talking about whether Buxton is ready to be promoted to AAA Rochester.

I agree that is saying quite a bit, and i think with last yrs one week or so promotion means they have big plans for him

[drjim]

 

May wasn't up last year? Your post implied there were not eve RP options better than Duensing or Stauffer, or I may have read that wrong and it was about something else when you said there were not better options. There better be options better than them......

 

May was prospect eligible coming into the season, so he should count.

 

I didn't say no one is better (I've mentioned Meyer 3 times this thread and Tonkin too and probably a couple of others would be a limited upgrade), I just don't understand the call for Oliveros, he is 7th best RP in the minors in my opinion. But the bigger point on Stauffer has always been not to get a better pitcher, but to replace him with a bat. As soon as the team clears the damage of the bullpen game, I think there will be a move.

[Oldgoat_MN]

In over 400 PA last year Danny Santana was awesome.

Yes, part of that was an unusually high BABIP.

 

Send him to AAA. Bruno had a huge impact on the kid last year. Santana put up an OPS he had never touched in his career.

 

It may be that there is something Bruno can give this young man that just works.

 

I'd at least give it a shot.

Send him down with some genuine optimism about what may come of that.

[twinssporto]

I agree with most of the postings here that recommend bringing up some power bats.  The reality and timeliness of this thread showed itself yesterday.  Bottom of the ninth down 4-2 and we bring in Suzuki to pinch hit.  Our lack of depth was on display big time in that situation.  It's nice to have a PH come up there that can even the game with one swing of the bat.  Not saying Suzuki can't do that but the probability he can is much lower than a Vargas, Arcia, Sano, etc., etc.

[USAFChief]

Sure. But this is for the long term good of Vargas. And has the added bonus of avoiding everyone posting later in the year or next year how the Twins screwed up his development.

 

People post that calling up Vargas and Oliveros is going to make some kind of significant difference. It's not. People can certainly correctly diagnose the flaw and holes with this team, but the solutions leave something to be desired. This team is just flawed, luckily like the rest of the league.

There is no chance Vargas (.965 OPS at Rochester) could make a difference today at DH for the Twins?

 

I doubt that.

 

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

[Mike Sixel]

When I complained about the minors not helping last year, people said I should calm down, May, Santana and Vargas came up. Now May came up this year, Vargas is in AAA, and Santana is predictably not so good. This year the FO would rather have Stauffer and Duensing on the roster than other options.

[TheLeviathan]

What does Oliveras have to do in AAA to earn a call up? Pitch blind-folded? Left handed? Holding an adorable puppy?

[twinsnorth49]

 

What does Oliveras have to do in AAA to earn a call up? Pitch blind-folded? Left handed? Holding an adorable puppy?

All of the above plus do it "consistently".

[twinsnorth49]

 

Sure. But this is for the long term good of Vargas. And has the added bonus of avoiding everyone posting later in the year or next year how the Twins screwed up his development.

 

People post that calling up Vargas and Oliveros is going to make some kind of significant difference. It's not. People can certainly correctly diagnose the flaw and holes with this team, but the solutions leave something to be desired. This team is just flawed, luckily like the rest of the league.

Oh, ok, now that you've said so I'll stop advocating for it.

 

The irony in all of this is that for all your objections to Vargas, you seem perfectly ok with a guy with an OPS below .600 taking the gig a lot of the time.

 

What Vargas is doing in AAA is exactly what I thought, he's killing the pitching with and upper .900's OPS because what they have to offer isn't his problem. As Levi stated earlier, they lack the quality off speed stuff that Vargas has a tough time recognizing , which imo he needs to work on with Brunansky and the big club. At least while he's doing it he still poses a threat to deposit a mistake where the others are much less capable of.

[dbminn]

Call up Polanco and send Santana to AAA. Polanco's bat might help the Twins right now.There would be long-term benefits as well: Santana needs to work on his hitting at AAA. Polanco is ready for a taste of the majors as part of his development. Santana can come back once he's regained confidence. Polanco can then return to the minors with a tangible understanding of what needs improvement.

 

Vargas should be called up to DH as soon as the Twins can drop a reliever.

 

Arcia needs to find his stroke before being recalled. I prefer Rosario in LF anyway - he's saved several runs with his defense and he's beginning to hit with a little authority.

 

Pinto had an awful month of May and he is not a major league catcher. No chance he gets a call right now.

 

The Twins have been winning because of their veterans. Vargas hadn't contributed anything before he was sent down. Arcia was just as bad at the plate for most of the season. He started to hit better the week before his injury but he still plays lousy defense.

 

Throwing prospects onto the roster is not a magic bullet. They can only help when they're properly prepared. I respect Molitor and Ryan for keeping with this philosophy. But please, make Stauffer go away.

[jokin]

 

Sure. But this is for the long term good of Vargas. And has the added bonus of avoiding everyone posting later in the year or next year how the Twins screwed up his development.

 

People post that calling up Vargas and Oliveros is going to make some kind of significant difference. It's not.

 

 

 

There is no chance Vargas (.965 OPS at Rochester) could make a difference today at DH for the Twins?

 

I doubt that.

 

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

And throw in Nunez in days previous.

 

 

 

"Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence."   ***

 

 

***  Except on TD

[JustinCB]

While this topic is completely ridiculous... I agree that Stauffer duensing and Santana should gtfo.

[twinsnorth49]

While this topic is completely ridiculous... I agree that Stauffer duensing and Santana should gtfo.

So you seem to agree the Twins should make some moves but yet the topic is ridiculous........got it.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Oh, ok, now that you've said so I'll stop advocating for it.

 

The irony in all of this is that for all your objections to Vargas, you seem perfectly ok with a guy with an OPS below .600 taking the gig a lot of the time.

 

What Vargas is doing in AAA is exactly what I thought, he's killing the pitching with and upper .900's OPS because what they have to offer isn't his problem. As Levi stated earlier, they lack the quality off speed stuff that Vargas has a tough time recognizing , which imo he needs to work on with Brunansky and the big club. At least while he's doing it he still poses a threat to deposit a mistake where the others are much less capable of.

 

And he WAS working on it and seeing better success! 

 

Ugh, I want to stop thinking about this.  I'm really not sure how anyone can defend the decision to send him down.

[drock2190]

And he WAS working on it and seeing better success!

 

Ugh, I want to stop thinking about this. I'm really not sure how anyone can defend the decision to send him down.

Obviously so Escobar and Nunez get more at bats to show their worth.

 

 

Hahaha

[drjim]

Vargas has a low

 

There is no chance Vargas (.965 OPS at Rochester) could make a difference today at DH for the Twins?

I doubt that.

Yesterday's lineup included Robinson, Santana, Herrmann, and Rosario. The lineup has needed help for a while now. They should try and do something about it, not throw up their hands and just say "it's a flawed lineup, nothing we can do," while Writing Robinson's name in the 2 hole.

 

I didn't say no difference. Just not a significant one, and not one that should stunt the development of Vargas.

 

And Vargas has such a high OPS at Rochester that it is now 20 points lower than what Hicks put up in twice the ABs.

[TheDean]

I understand that the bullpen is a bit taxed right now, and the rotation is somewhat out of whack, so they can't probably go back to 12 pitchers in the immediate future. That'll have to be a later move.

 

However, I don't see the issue with Vargas for Santana. Santana is currently sub-Florimon offensively with a pretty normal BABIP. Can't the Twins roll with Escobar at SS and Nunez as the backup? Or do we need to continue rostering 5 shortstops or former shortstops...plus the failed Rosario 2B experiment? I realize Escobar is having his own struggles, but they're on a lower level and magnified by his time at DH.

 

Nunez is getting arb money, and he should earn it doing his proper job: infield UT and emergency corner OF - not regular platoon at DH and LF.

[drjim]

 

What does Oliveras have to do in AAA to earn a call up? Pitch blind-folded? Left handed? Holding an adorable puppy?

 

Why do you want Oliveros over Meyer or Tonkin?

[TheLeviathan]

 

=And Vargas has such a high OPS at Rochester that it is now 20 points lower than what Hicks put up in twice the ABs.

 

Honestly, what does that matter?  Must everyone out-produce Hicks to get a call-up?

 

jim, I feel like you're just grasping for reasons on this.  If the long game was what was important for Vargas he should've been sent down in the middle of his awful struggles in April.  Or should be done with Santana right now.

 

The team's logic on some of these things is really hard to comprehend.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why do you want Oliveros over Meyer or Tonkin?

 

Tonkin should still be here.  Meyer is just converting to a bullpen arm, I'd rather let him play that out a bit first before throwing him against major league hitters while also adjusting to a new role.

 

Have you seen what Oliveros is doing down there?  He deserves a shot and we've had several guys prove there is room in the bullpen.

[TheDean]

 

Vargas has a low

 

 

I didn't say no difference. Just not a significant one, and not one that should stunt the development of Vargas.

 

And Vargas has such a high OPS at Rochester that it is now 20 points lower than what Hicks put up in twice the ABs.

 

I guess for me it doesn't matter what Hicks did. I just see .414 OBP as "being able to take a walk." I see .551 SLG as "hitting the ball for extra bases with some frequency." I'd say he has things figured out. It's a SSS, sure, but it's nothing anomalous. It's what I'd expect from a guy who has the skills to crush minor league pitching and who minor league pitchers are probably going to put on base regularly.

[drivlikejehu]

 

The team's logic on some of these things is really hard to comprehend.

 

Their roster construction is an embarrassment, plain and simple. It's kind of weird that Ryan can't handle this aspect of his job, but it is what it is.

[USAFChief]

Vargas has a low

 

 

 

I didn't say no difference. Just not a significant one, and not one that should stunt the development of Vargas.

 

And Vargas has such a high OPS at Rochester that it is now 20 points lower than what Hicks put up in twice the ABs.

I don't see any possible way Vargas isn't a better DH option than Escobar and Nunez, and I don't really care if its a little better or "significantly" better.

 

I also don't know that it would stunt Vargas' development to get his hacks in against big league pitchers, but if it would, that should be a pretty insignificant factor for a team in first place in June.