Berrios, Meyer, and Stewart: How do you rank 'em?

[Halsey Hall]

I really don't see any sense in ranking them, they're all in the organization so who cares.  I'll pull for and follow all three.  In the end though I see Stewart having the longest and best career. 

[nicksaviking]

Stewart is quite a bit behind the other two for me at this time.  If his strikeout deficiency really is due to an organizational ban on his slider or some other mandate regarding his pitching technique, but it will be remedied this year, then I very well may be able to get on board with him being #1.  Bottom line is he has to prove he can miss bats before he should be taken seriously.

[Steve Lein]

I believe one of the strikeout issues with Steward was he was limited in throwing his breaking pitches/slider(at least I thought I saw this here last year).  That is his strikeout pitch, but also the one that will cause the most arm issues/

 

 If his strikeout deficiency really is due to an organizational ban on his slider or some other mandate regarding his pitching technique, but it will be remedied this year, then I very well may be able to get on board with him being #1. 

 

I read this several times last year, and recall quotes to this effect from several in the front office and his coaches at Cedar Rapids. In this TD article from Seth, it mentions he didn't throw a single slider in the start discussed.

 

It also comes up in the Adopt-A-Prospect thread for him.

[Thrylos]

I'd probably argue on the stuff (not much elsewhere). Meyer has 2 very good pitches.

 

I know that this is a myth that has been propagated some place by some people (that he has only 2 pitches).  Meyer has 3 plus pitches (Fastball, slow curve, change) and one average to above average pitch (slider.)   I really discount a lot of those reports, if what I see with my eyes is different, based on how opposing batters react to his stuff.

 

Here is my report on what I saw from him last season (and includes radar reading pictures, for the non-believers)  The guy has a 20 mph differential in his pitches. And 4 pitches.  Does any other pitcher in the Twins organization have this?

Nope.

[Don.Best21@yahoo.com]

Personally, all three have at least two years before seeing major league....Berrios is just going out there and throwing.....has no clue as to his surroundings and just having fun.....lacks seriousness of the responsiblilities......this disrupts the flow a team and pitching staff.....Maturity two years ......Alex Meyer is as good as he will ever get....Major league hitters will figure him out fast and this will cause him to try and adjust which will lead to even more inconsistancy....Great guy but IMO will need a change over.....Kohl Stewart IMO best of the three but 3 years away for much the same reasons as Berrios except IMO he will better because than Berrios because of his physical and emotional stature.....but still 2-3 years from really moving to twins...

 

IMO the Twins need to focus on Levi Michael's, Alex Wimmers, and Brian Dozier.....the combination of Michael's and Dozier at 2nd and short will create the quickest and best defense in the league....once they improve their hitting to .250+ TWins better move them lup fast or they are gone to another team....As for Alex Wimmers, get him up there now....he looks ready and confident.....he was ready in college so he is more than ready now....The sooner Twins can start him behind Gibson the stronger the rotation will be due to the different pitching styles.....Hitters will adjust but from one day of Gibson to Wimmers with different release points, arm angles, and pitches, hitters will have to make the adjustment fast because their swing have to change to get on the ball.....This would be fun to watch......My opinion....Really like to see these three up with the Twins after All-Star game this year.....

[cmb0252]

Meyer, Berrios, Stewart

 

I try to factor in stuff, durability, results-relative-to-age and proximity-to-the-majors when ranking pitchers.

 

Stuff: Meyer ... gap ... Stewart, Berrios

Durability: Berrios ... gap ... Meyer, Stewart

Results: Berrios, Meyer ... gap ... Stewart

Proximity: Meyer, Berrios ... gap .. Stewart

 

Meyer and Berrios are super close, and I can make good cases for both of them as the best pitching prospect. In the end, I think Meyer's superior stuff and proximity trump (ever so slightly) Berrios's edge in durability and results. Stewart is clearly #3.

Ideal size: Stewart......Meyers, Berrios

Athletic ability: Stewart, Berrios, Meyer

Pitch movement: Meyer/Stewart......Berrios

 

I would also argue with the stuff between Meyer and Stewart. Meyer has two 70s, a 50 (depending on the scouting report), and no big league 4th pitch. Stewart currently has a 65,60, and two 50s with a chance his last three pitches all get bumped a grade once he truly learns to pitch. Which package truly has more upside? No idea but I don't believe Meyer has that big of gap in stuff if any with Stewart.

 

Stewart has only focused on baseball for one year while the other two it has always been their preferred sport. In the end I see the argument for anyone to be #1 but I believe Stewart is getting knocked for inexperience which people should have expected.

[ashbury]

Personally, all three have at least two years before seeing major league......

Sure hope that's not the case with Meyer.

 

Indeed Meyer's being closer to the majors makes it harder to rank them, because perceived ceiling might not be the same as trade value, might not be the same as floor, might not... you see what I mean.  I rank them for ceiling as Stewart, Berrios then Meyer.  But that's colored a bit by the view that a #1 type often reaches the majors by an early age, and Meyer has passed that age threshold already.  But it doesn't mean he can't or won't be really good. And by trade value, Meyer might be highest, depending on the trade partner and their wish for a MLB-ready starter.

[laloesch]

I know that this is a myth that has been propagated some place by some people (that he has only 2 pitches).  Meyer has 3 plus pitches (Fastball, slow curve, change) and one average to above average pitch (slider.)   I really discount a lot of those reports, if what I see with my eyes is different, based on how opposing batters react to his stuff.

 

Here is my report on what I saw from him last season (and includes radar reading pictures, for the non-believers)  The guy has a 20 mph differential in his pitches. And 4 pitches.  Does any other pitcher in the Twins organization have this?

Nope.

 

Not to dispute your report, but my understanding was is that his plus plus pitch is his wicked fastball followed by his blistering fastball.  I've read that the change-up has potential but he struggles to control it.  Hadn't heard anything about a fourth pitch.

[Steve Lein]

I know that this is a myth that has been propagated some place by some people (that he has only 2 pitches).  Meyer has 3 plus pitches (Fastball, slow curve, change) and one average to above average pitch (slider.)   I really discount a lot of those reports, if what I see with my eyes is different, based on how opposing batters react to his stuff.

 

Here is my report on what I saw from him last season (and includes radar reading pictures, for the non-believers)  The guy has a 20 mph differential in his pitches. And 4 pitches.  Does any other pitcher in the Twins organization have this?

Nope.

 

Yeah I've seen a bunch of conflicting notes about his breaking ball. Most call it a Slider, some call it a curve or knuckle curve. Think it gets the slider label most often because it's typically in the mid-80's, which is more of a slider velocity. Lets just call it a 'breaking ball'.

 

He throws the 4-seamer, which is what will come in 95-98 MPH. Then a Two-seamer (that's probably the better pitch and gets his groundballs) at 92-95. Then there's the breaking ball, and while I don't doubt he can add and subtract from it, I think it's the same pitch. Then the changeup he's developing. I think those are what his "4 pitches" are.

[Bob Sacamento]

From an outsider's perspective (diehard Cubs fan here and recently adopted Twins fan)

 

For me the most likely of the 3 to be a regular impact starting pitcher for years to come has got to be Berrios, not only for the stuff, command, durability, results and proximity but Jose has a great head on his shoulders, very cerebral and doesn't get flustered too easy. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Meyer's stuff but he has difficulty staying out there and when he's stuff's not on as he doesn't have Berrios' acumen to stay out there.  Meyer should definitely make an MLB appearance this year but his long term role might be in the back end of the bullpen if he doesn't a) stay healthy and b)repeat his mechanics.

 

What I've seen of Kohl so far (albeit only Instructionals and GCL) I'm not that impressed at least not yet.  He'll likely make an appearance in High A Ft. Myers this season at some point so I'll get to see more of him but I'd take the lefty Austrailian Lewis Thorpe over Stewart.  At this point in Stewart's career he seems much more like a thrower than a pitcher.

 

I'll be there on Friday morning to welcome in the pitchers/catchers...

[Thrylos]

Yeah I've seen a bunch of conflicting notes about his breaking ball. Most call it a Slider, some call it a curve or knuckle curve. Think it gets the slider label most often because it's typically in the mid-80's, which is more of a slider velocity. Lets just call it a 'breaking ball'.

 

He throws the 4-seamer, which is what will come in 95-98 MPH. Then a Two-seamer (that's probably the better pitch and gets his groundballs) at 92-95. Then there's the breaking ball, and while I don't doubt he can add and subtract from it, I think it's the same pitch. Then the changeup he's developing. I think those are what his "4 pitches" are.

 

 

Alright

That's what they say.  Please tell me what pitch is this one?  Stadium Radar reading on the upper right:

 

 

And, really, it is hard to "add or subtract" on the breaking balls, because when you try to alter the grip or the motion they tend to go all over the place...

[Dr. Evil]

I like all 3 the same. Is that an ok opinion?

[Tibs]

I like all 3 the same. Is that an ok opinion?

No. You will choose between the three and you will like it 

[Jham]

Alright

That's what they say.  Please tell me what pitch is this one?  Stadium Radar reading on the upper right:

 

And, really, it is hard to "add or subtract" on the breaking balls, because when you try to alter the grip or the motion they tend to go all over the place...

 

I remember reading your report last year and was pumped to see Meyers like right then.  However, he struggled mightily with consistency, often when it seemed he was a start away from a call-up.  His success and command seem to swing wildly from one start to the next.  I guess based on what you scouted, Meyer could be an ace.  But other scouts that have seen his bad days project him as a bull pen arm (potentially elite, btw).  If he does have a 4 pitch arsenal, he needs to work on 2 things, unfortunately in AAA: mixing in more breaking balls. 2) adding and especially subtracting on the fastball to gain command.  I think Verlander is the best at throwing at 90-95% so that he can add a few mph late in counts and late in games.

 

I remember the first time I heard of JO Berios was when he was a spring training invite as a teen-ager and had TK and others gasping at a big breaking ball.  Scouting reports said he was still developing that pitch but had a mid-90s fastball.  Stellar work ethic.  Height didn't hold back Pedro or Big Time Timmy Jim Lincecum.  Sold.  

 

Stewart is a mile away, and I'm not sure I haven't been more intrigued with Gonsalves all along...

 

Berrios, Meyer, Stewart.

 

 

 

 

[jimmer]

Fangraphs released it's top 200 prospect list this week.

 

Berrios as the #24 prospect in baseball (Twins #3 prospect).  Alex Meyer is #71, Gordon  is #72, Stewart is #73. 

 

6 in the top 73.

 

Polanco at #108.

[zenser]

I really don't care how anyone ranks them. All I care about is that they reach the bar we are setting. How fun will it be to go to a weekend series in a few years and watch Meyer, Stewart, and Barrios pitch that weekend. IF they pan out, we will be blessed.

[jimmer]

I really don't care how anyone ranks them. All I care about is that they reach the bar we are setting. How fun will it be to go to a weekend series in a few years and watch Meyer, Stewart, and Barrios pitch that weekend. IF they pan out, we will be blessed.

let's throw May in there are well, just for giggles.  Maybe Gibson will get it all figured out too.

[jimmer]

I imagine a 2018 rotation of Hughes, Berrios, Gibson, Stewart, May.

[Steve Lein]

Alright

That's what they say.  Please tell me what pitch is this one?  Stadium Radar reading on the upper right:

 

 

And, really, it is hard to "add or subtract" on the breaking balls, because when you try to alter the grip or the motion they tend to go all over the place...

 

Without seeing actual video, it could be anything but a Fastball. I'd wager it was his new changeup though based on it appearing like his palm is 'open' after release. New pitches can be quite inconsistent, so might have pulled the string a bit more on that one. I don't know.

 

And I think a pro-pitcher can probably add and subtract just fine. Heck, that's how I threw a 'cutter' vs. a 'breaking ball' back when I tried to "pitch"  q;)  Same grip, but it sure had different movement based on how hard I threw it and what finger I used to put pressure on the seam.

 

But I do like your report, and everything about him screams 'why isn't he in the majors already' to me!