Hartman: Twins owner won't restrict spending in free agency

[jay]

I now have no idea of what to expect for the payroll next year. $80M? 90M? 100M?

 

I do read this as putting some fire under TR to put a winning team together by removing the possibility of payroll as an excuse.

 

http://m.startribune.com/sports/twins/281877141.html

[JB_Iowa]

I believe the story and I also believe the payroll won't go above $100m, if that, and will probably be about 90.

 

The reason TR is in the GM's chair is because it would take the equivalent of a stick of dynamite to get him to push the limits,

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

It's definitely an enouraging development compared to the payroll comments that Dave St. Peter made just after the season.

I'll wait to see what they do before I start looking for a good section for season tickets, though...

[laloesch]

It's definitely an enouraging development compared to the payroll comments that Dave St. Peter made just after the season.

I'll wait to see what they do before I start looking for a good section for season tickets, though...

 

 

I'll believe it when I see it.  That said, reportedly the Twins are already talking to Tori Hunter about that LF spot.  Sure he's not 25 years old anymore but it will buy them some time in the outfield.  If the Twins are going to go for it, you have to make a play for Lester, Shields or Scherzer.  My preference would be Lester, but I doubt it happens.  We already have two anchors on the payroll (Mauer and Nolasco).

[The Wise One]

There is a budget and there is a payroll. They do not have to be equal. So basically the budget is now said to be limited by the nature of which Ryan wants to spend. Hopefully the analytics department can accurately forecast what people should be worth and convince Ryan of that. If Ryan views the value for the money of the player he will spend. He has Carte Blanche. Except if he spends what he thinks is wisely and it wasn't Ryan wold have to either ride of into the retirement sunset or find a new organization

[Squirrel]

I'll believe it when I see it. 

Pretty much this.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I get that Hunter would be cheaper, but I think for LF, I'd want a better option than that. His defense has really tailed off the last few years, and while the bat will play, I'd much rather kick the tires on Kemp. He's younger and a better player. He won't cost much more than a marginal prospect given the Dodger's OF situation. Yeah, he's going to be more expensive, but if 100M is a possibility, then Kemp could slide into that role and there would still be money left over.

 

That said, I'll believe all of this when I see it.

[Mike Sixel]

Uh, was this printed last year, or the year before? Because what we have ALWAYS been told was that the owners don't restrict the spending, if TR wants to spend it, they say yes.

 

This is all on TR, unless they have been lying to us for the last few years. 

[jay]

If the message is so well known and it's all TR's fault, then why does the cheap owners meme continue to circulate?

[DocBauer]

Yes, payroll dipped last offseason initially, but the Twins spent record amounts on FA's last offseason and did very well with Hughes and Suzuki and PROBABLY will look good this year with a healthy Nolasco as well. They also tried to sign others, notably Garza, to improve the team and raise payroll even more as a result. Then they went out and signed Morales in an attempt to improve the club, and again actually raised payroll.

 

Despite some rather flippant comments, that we should all be used to by now, about payroll now going down much this year, (as opposed to going up much), Ryan was pretty clear at one point that $95M should be enough, and he doubted the team would exceed $100M. (Though they have before) Now take these most recent comments, Ryan's comments and figures, the spree and attempted larger spree last offseason, mix it all together and what do you get?

 

You get a payroll that will dip slightly at first, raise slightly with raises, then jump $15-$25M with FA's and possibly a trade or two.

 

New manager, somewhat new staff, young talent arrived and arriving, new-ish uniforms, 4 straight losing seasons; as a business the Twins need to create excitement and keep fans coming, bring back some others, and help jump start the team to a higher level of competition.

[brvama]

It basically begins and ends with TR.  As has been stated, TR will spend if he sees value.  That is a good strategy EXCEPT it makes one risk adverse when going after elite players.  Given that, Nolasco's signing last year gives a hint of that changing.  I wonder if TR is willing to stretch it out to accomodate the talent that is arriving.  Wouldn't it be encouraging if, for example, he signed a Lester/Scherzer so that the 'new' Twins had a certifiable ace with them?

[jokin]

I believe the story and I also believe the payroll won't go above $100m, if that, and will probably be about 90.

 

The reason TR is in the GM's chair is because it would take the equivalent of a stick of dynamite to get him to push the limits,

 

"Let's just move along, folks... nothing to see here..."  

 

This really sounds like more of their standard routine, ie, Pohlad's "good cop" to Terry's "bad cop".

[Mike Sixel]

If the message is so well known and it's all TR's fault, then why does the cheap owners meme continue to circulate?

 

I can't speak for others, but here are some guesses as to why the meme exists:

 

1. Not everyone believes it.

2. St. Peter says stuff that contradicts that.

3. People like TR, and want to blame someone else

4. It is a combo of TR and the owners, but people don't say that every time they talk about it.

5. That did not appear to be true in the past, and it is hard to change an reputation once it exists.

6. People are just angry a lot in this country over stuff that doesn't matter, so they say stuff.

7. They believe that the owners know TR won't spend a lot on FA, and so they can give him any budget they want, knowing he won't spend it. I tell my wife all the time she can buy whatever she wants, but I know she's frugal....

[jokin]

I can't speak for others, but here are some guesses as to why the meme exists:

 

1. Not everyone believes it.

2. St. Peter says stuff that contradicts that.

3. People like TR, and want to blame someone else

4. It is a combo of TR and the owners, but people don't say that every time they talk about it.

5. That did not appear to be true in the past, and it is hard to change an reputation once it exists.

6. People are just angry a lot in this country over stuff that doesn't matter, so they say stuff.

7. They believe that the owners know TR won't spend a lot on FA, and so they can give him any budget they want, knowing he won't spend it. I tell my wife all the time she can buy whatever she wants, but I know she's frugal....

 Or-

 

8.  Because there is strong evidence out there that the meme might be true?

[USAFChief]

Pohlad specifically said there WILL be payroll limitations in this column..."it won't be $150 million...".

[nicksaviking]

Ah, the annual "There are no payroll limitations" quote.  We really should go back and see if this annual lipservice is always reported by Sid.  If so, it may just prove that he did die several years ago and that the Strib just continues to recycle his articles.

[nicksaviking]

"Let's just move along, folks... nothing to see here..."  

 

This really sounds like more of their standard routine, ie, Pohlad's "good cop" to Terry's "bad cop".

 

I wonder if it's the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine, or if it's like when two people get accused of murder and their respective attorney's advise them to blame it on the other guy in an effort to create reasonable doubt with the jury.

[Willihammer]

If the message is so well known and it's all TR's fault, then why does the cheap owners meme continue to circulate?

Because after 4 90 loss seasons TR still has a job?

 

Owners can say what they want, but actions speak louder. Look around baseball. Two GM's in Atlanta and Arizona got fired for one losing season. The difference between them and the Ryans, Luhnow's and Epsteins is that the other three have lost on the cheap.

 

If TR wants to keep his job he won't raise payroll, no matter what his boss says.

[jay]

7. They believe that the owners know TR won't spend a lot on FA, and so they can give him any budget they want, knowing he won't spend it. I tell my wife all the time she can buy whatever she wants, but I know she's frugal....

 

I really like this one.  Probably because the last sentence hits home.  I'd even call it endearing.

 

...hmmm, so that would make TR the wife? 

[Mike Sixel]

I actually wish she wasn't so frugal sometimes, I bet the Pohlads are that way sometimes. 

[JB_Iowa]

I actually wish she wasn't so frugal sometimes, I bet the Pohlads are that way sometimes. 

 

The secret is being frugal not cheap.  Some store brands are great (Hughes); others just waste your money and more  (Kubel, Bartlett, Marquis, etc.)

 

Always pays to be a smart shopper.

[drock2190]

The secret is being frugal not cheap.  Some store brands are great (Hughes); others just waste your money and more  (Kubel, Bartlett, Marquis, etc.)

 

Always pays to be a smart shopper.

 

A lot of players in free agency have seent their best years. If the Twins want to gamble they should look into Masterson or even Brett Anderson because they could rebound and be good players for several years. Hitter wise no one jumps out but I haven't looked to hard to be honest.

[nicksaviking]

I actually wish she wasn't so frugal sometimes, I bet the Pohlads are that way sometimes. 

 

Can your wife come hang out with my wife?

[Brandon]

There are cost effective ways to get good players and still win. We can trade for a solid starting pitcher just as easily as sign one.  We have parts and there are lots of available pitchers cause next years free agent class will be huge.  I think if we sign Hunter and trade for a solid starting pitcher we will be in shape to compete for the division title next year.  I believe we are that close. 

[Mike Sixel]

Hunter can't play defense. It is only going to get worse.....

[Linus]

Sid writes this every year. Please ignore it It means nothing. TR most certainly has a budget - he's just toeing the company line.

[bird]

Uh, was this printed last year, or the year before? Because what we have ALWAYS been told was that the owners don't restrict the spending, if TR wants to spend it, they say yes.

 

This is all on TR, unless they have been lying to us for the last few years. 

This isn't exactly what we've always been told. We've gotten many mixed messages over the years.  And it's the mixed messages we've received, from ownership, from the front office, and from members of the media that have caused the confusion and cause much of the fact-twisted and emotional commentary from fans. But I'll partially agree: this is now, finally and unquestionably, on Ryan's shoulders.

 

At Molitor's presser, I saw two comments from Jim Pohlad that I felt were almost watershed-like. Both were related to the final question of the day, regarding payroll. The first was Pohlad making eye contact with St. Peter and suggesting perhaps he'd like another crack at the question. I took this as an  admonishment of St. Peter's butcher job on the subject earlier. The second was his comment bluntly objecting to Ryan's characterization of "using the resources that are made available."

 

In my opinion, Pohlad's sending a clear message. I'm guessing he's not pleased with those two right now, and I'm confident in saying he's very tired of how this whole Twins saga has tarnished the reputations of three generations of his family. Not that he's guilt-free, mind you.

[bird]

It basically begins and ends with TR.  As has been stated, TR will spend if he sees value.  That is a good strategy EXCEPT it makes one risk adverse when going after elite players.  Given that, Nolasco's signing last year gives a hint of that changing.  I wonder if TR is willing to stretch it out to accomodate the talent that is arriving.  Wouldn't it be encouraging if, for example, he signed a Lester/Scherzer so that the 'new' Twins had a certifiable ace with them?

Yes, and add to that what spycake expresses well, which is Ryan's almost phobic avoidance of anything resembling a bidding war. Another hint of that changing is more frequent comments from Ryan along the lines of "we may have to overpay."

 

Although I'm not sure Ryan wouldn't rather be fired than to be a fool in a bidding contest.

[JB_Iowa]

If TR is thinking of being more aggressive, I wouldn't advertise it.

 

You only get the leverage of that kind of surprise once.  I'd think long and hard and then go in with a "shocking" (only b/c it is TR) offer.

[bird]

Ah, the annual "There are no payroll limitations" quote.  We really should go back and see if this annual lipservice is always reported by Sid.  If so, it may just prove that he did die several years ago and that the Strib just continues to recycle his articles.

Ah, the annual "there are no payroll limits" interpretation.

 

Of COURSE there are limitations.

 

We ought to do a poll here: "exactly what number will you accept as a reasonable limitation on payroll spending for a given season?" Personally, I have a number, and yes, it's totally arbitrary. It's $125M.

 

And it's both reasonable to me that the Twins don't spend more and reasonable to me to spend less when spending more is unlikely to produce meaningful results or would compromise the future via bad contracts.