Surprising news: ARod did use PEDs

[gunnarthor]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/11827107/new-york-yankees-alex-rodriguez-bother-apologizing-ped-use

 

Shocking, but it turns out ARod was using PEDs when he was arguing in the press that he wasn't.  He told DEA agents he took human growth hormone (among others) and paid his cousin 900,000 to remain silent on his drug use.

 

But flags fly forever.  ARod killed the Twins in 3 post season series hitting .390 (16 for 41) with 3 doubles and 3 HRs and a .444 OBP.  

[JB_Iowa]

I was just reading this one:

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/article3578762.html

[nicksaviking]

I wonder what causes one to offer 900K but not make it a cool million?  Can we learn more about the ins and outs of blackmail/hush money.

[D. Hocking]

Da*m!  I was hoping we would work out some sort of trade with the Yankees and get him next year.  One of the first big moves under the Molitor era.  Now I am not so sure.

 

I doubt I will ever trust or believe in anyone again.

[James]

For the sake of baseball, I hope he gets caught in spring training shooting up with HGH or some other PED and is banned from baseball for life.

[USAFChief]

I hope he not only collects every penny owed, but mans third base at such an abominable level as to drag the Yankees below .500 and kill for good any remaining chance he has at the HOF.

[ashbury]

I hope he not only collects every penny owed, but mans third base at such an abominable level as to drag the Yankees below .500 and kill for good any remaining chance he has at the HOF.

http://youtu.be/zMRrNY0pxfM

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I dunno - the Hall of Fame is full of scummy, crummy people. I think guys like A-Rod, though awful as a role model for youth, nonetheless has made a lasting impact on the game. It would be one thing if his PED use happened in a vacuum, and none of the pitchers he faced were using PEDs, but we already know that is not the case.

The entire era from the Bash Brothers through Barry Bonds' last season was played under this cloud of people using PEDs (and guys are still using - some of them are better than others at not getting caught). 

I think these players put up numbers in an environment in which drug use was rampant - I think it's impossible to know everyone who was really clean and who was not.

I think the sportswriter voters will not elect these players, but I think a few of them might make it in via the veteran's committee somewhere down the line.

[nicksaviking]

I dunno - the Hall of Fame is full of scummy, crummy people. I think guys like A-Rod, though awful as a role model for youth, nonetheless has made a lasting impact on the game.

 

Did he leave the kind of lasting impression that someone would want to celebrate?  Marge Schott made a lasting impact too.  There's a difference between fame and infamy, negative impressions probably shouldn't get in.

[biggentleben]

Did he leave the kind of lasting impression that someone would want to celebrate?  Marge Schott made a lasting impact too.  There's a difference between fame and infamy, negative impressions probably shouldn't get in.

 

You'd rather have Ty Cobb?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Did he leave the kind of lasting impression that someone would want to celebrate?  Marge Schott made a lasting impact too.  There's a difference between fame and infamy, negative impressions probably shouldn't get in.

 

Marge Schott was in a class of her own - I don't really think the comparison of an owner vs. a player is apt.

 

While the stats that A-Rod compiled are tainted by his PED use, he wasn't the only one using. If PED's alone make someone a great player, why didn't Dan Naulty or Juan Rincon or Manny Alexander put up video game numbers like A-Rod, Clemens, and Bonds? His final stats are inflated, there's no doubt about it, but he still did it, amongst competition that was likewise using steroids, HGH, and whatever they thought could give them an edge.  

 

I won't claim that it's fair to the guys that were clean, or that clean players should have used to keep pace with the users. Enough people used on both sides of the ball that I'm reluctant to say that the careers of A-Rod, Clemens, Pettite, Bonds, etc. should be considered invalid.

[gunnarthor]

I dunno - the Hall of Fame is full of scummy, crummy people. I think guys like A-Rod, though awful as a role model for youth, nonetheless has made a lasting impact on the game. It would be one thing if his PED use happened in a vacuum, and none of the pitchers he faced were using PEDs, but we already know that is not the case.

The entire era from the Bash Brothers through Barry Bonds' last season was played under this cloud of people using PEDs (and guys are still using - some of them are better than others at not getting caught). 

I think these players put up numbers in an environment in which drug use was rampant - I think it's impossible to know everyone who was really clean and who was not.

I think the sportswriter voters will not elect these players, but I think a few of them might make it in via the veteran's committee somewhere down the line.

Maybe, but no one who tests positive repeatedly after testing began (ARod, Manny) are going to get any benefit of the doubt.  They'll never get in.

[James]

Ty Cobb... rotten dude, but amazing ball player.  Although rotten in general, his awfulness didn't give him any advantage in while playing the game.  So, there's a difference there.

[biggentleben]

Ty Cobb... rotten dude, but amazing ball player.  Although rotten in general, his awfulness didn't give him any advantage in while playing the game.  So, there's a difference there.

 

No advantage, except not playing against a large number of the best players in the game because he was such a powerful voice in the game that his absolute refusal to even be on the field with black players influenced the game's dragging its feet on the issue.

[USAFChief]

No advantage, except not playing against a large number of the best players in the game because he was such a powerful voice in the game that his absolute refusal to even be on the field with black players influenced the game's dragging its feet on the issue.

Cobb's last game was in 1927, two decades before baseball integrated.

 

I wasn't there, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cobb had little if anything to do with influencing the segregation of baseball.

[biggentleben]

Cobb's last game was in 1927, two decades before baseball integrated.

 

I wasn't there, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cobb had little if anything to do with influencing the segregation of baseball.

 

Then you'd be misinformed on history.  Watch Ken Burns' film about how there was intentional removal of Latin and Native American players who looked too "black" due to the racism of the time.  It's a pretty dark (no pun intended) time in baseball's history, and Cobb was a very outspoken, media-conscious critic of allowing any African Americans in the game or even playing on the same field with them in barnstorming games (something even Babe Ruth did in the early 1920s).  Cobb refused to attend baseball games where there were African Americans on the field until the 1950s, when (after a cancer diagnosis) suddenly he reversed course.  Cobb and Tris Speaker are also widely believed to have retired at the same time to avoid a game-fixing scandal that would have banned them if it went public.  Speaker admitted to the game-fixing with Cobb as one of his cohorts, but Cobb refused to ever acknowledge it.

[USAFChief]

I'm not defending Cobb. Just stating that the curve of baseball history was bent very little, if at all, by one player. I doubt the integration timeline would have been any different if Cobb had never played a game.

[biggentleben]

I'm not defending Cobb. Just stating that the curve of baseball history was bent very little, if at all, by one player. I doubt the integration timeline would have been any different if Cobb had never played a game.

 

But his accomplishments were tainted because he didn't play all the best players, and he was very in favor of that exclusion. He was also a cheater that retired rather than facing his cheating.  How is A-Rod worse than Cobb?  People rant about Cobb's on field accomplishments and put his off-field stuff to the side, even when it directly affected the game, but A-Rod's stuff is blended on and off field.  Just a different era that doesn't do anywhere near as well separating.  

[USAFChief]

Cobb played in a segregated MLB, which surely diluted the talent to some degree. But I don't think he had much influence on segregation, unless you believe he was also responsible for it before he was born and 20 years after he quit playing. Besides...unless you are arguing all pre-integration HOFers should be removed from the HOF, why single out Cobb. Should Babe Ruth be out because he played during segregation?

 

If there's a case to be made he fixed games...make it. Unfounded allegations don't work for me, YMMV. I do think its a stretch to say that is what caused his retirement, though...he was 41 when he quit playing. It also seems contradictory to me for you to claim he quit over cheating allegations, yet still had enough influence over MLB to help keep the game segregated for another two decades.

 

Even if what you claim is all true, I would argue that's cause to remove Cobb, not a reason to induct a known PED user.

[Squirrel]

What Chief said.  But to add another point ... intent.  And trust me, I am not trying to defend the horrible person that Cobb was, but I don't think he was trying to keep baseball segregated in an effort to intentionally enhance his game, which is exactly what PED users do.  ARod knowingly, intentionally used ... to enhance his game.

[USAFChief]

What Chief said.  But to add another point ... intent.  And trust me, I am not trying to defend the horrible person that Cobb was, but I don't think he was trying to keep baseball segregated in an effort to intentionally enhance his game, which is exactly what PED users do.  ARod knowingly, intentionally used ... to enhance his game.

And...the centaur painting!!1!

[TheLeviathan]

What Chief said.  But to add another point ... intent.  And trust me, I am not trying to defend the horrible person that Cobb was, but I don't think he was trying to keep baseball segregated in an effort to intentionally enhance his game, which is exactly what PED users do.  ARod knowingly, intentionally used ... to enhance his game.

 

This is to say nothing of the larger point, but I'm not so sure baseball segregation wasn't at least partially based on latent fears of what black players might do to the availability of jobs and performance of white players.

[biggentleben]

What Chief said.  But to add another point ... intent.  And trust me, I am not trying to defend the horrible person that Cobb was, but I don't think he was trying to keep baseball segregated in an effort to intentionally enhance his game, which is exactly what PED users do.  ARod knowingly, intentionally used ... to enhance his game.

 

And of the Mays/Mantle/Aaron guys who used "Greenies" and all sorts of other drugs, legal and otherwise, to continue playing, but had it covered up because of their star power?