Dustin Pedroia- Down and Possibly Out- Drew or....Dozier..... to take his place?

[halfchest]

It would be fun to envision the parallel universe of Dozier and Mauer in Fenway in exchange for 4 top 8-10 Boston prospects.

 

But Dozier at second right now is working enormously well. I have liked Rosario a lot all along, but he is going to be traded eventually here. I wouldn't do it, but he will be traded.

 

I like Rosario too, in fact I even adopted the son of a gun. However, I'm just not sure enough of a guy with half a season at AA and possible character issues. Still kind of unclear on the "drug of abuse" thing whether it was a mistake or not. We have a young 2B who is playing well defensively and at the plate. I just can't justify trading him especially when I his value could rise dramatically if he continues what he's done now for probably the last 4 months of last year and the first couple weeks this year.

[Monkeypaws]

It would be fun to envision the parallel universe of Dozier and Mauer in Fenway in exchange for 4 top 8-10 Boston prospects.

 

But Dozier at second right now is working enormously well. I have liked Rosario a lot all along, but he is going to be traded eventually here. I wouldn't do it, but he will be traded.

 

I could see Dozier being a very good Red Sox 2nd baseman. Scary thought.

[BigTrane]

Respectfully, Crazy Talk.

 

BoSox can cast an eye around the League and dream on, but it ain't going to happen.

 

My boy Dozier must have found Cuddy's notebook or something, but he's saying all the right things, going about the game (and the business of an extension) the "Twins Way". In this org. that means you're on track to become a Made Man.

 

Who could argue with his power so far? If he continues to find his stroke, he'll prove '13 was not a fluke, and get his deal.

 

Without Dozier, what does our middle infield look like? Don't wanna go there...

[halfchest]

For all those wanting to contend in 16 or 17....do you really think they'll sign a FA or two, to fill in gaps? They have still cut payroll every year (assuming you measure this year based on the new $25MM baseline), and still have not traded a young player for a legit vet. I guess they won't do that, because "who would sign here to play x with such great prospects behind them". Do you really think adding a bunch of rookies next year, assuming any of them are healthy and emotionally stable, will have them be good next year, or even the next? I just don't see it, and at that point, you might as well "only play for the future" as Johan and Torrii put it.

 

Let's just look at the last few years of free agent signings and trades to patch up holes.

 

2010 our last good year they got Orlando Hudson and traded for JJ Hardy to patch the middle infield. Pretty successful move if not marred by the asinine trading away of JJ the next season. I don't even care that Gomez has had an awakening in Milwaukee. I was so excited to get JJ only to see him shipped off later. They also traded for Capps as well as brought Pavano back to shore up a youngish rotation.

 

2011 . . . THOME!!! That's all really. and damnit Nishioka not much to be said for this year but it was a lot of fun watching Thome even in a crap year.

 

2012 . . . despite a crap year they made some nice moves bringing in Doumit, Willingham and even Carroll to some extent was a decent pickup. Burton and Fien were some nice reclamation projects that year too.

 

2013. I can't defend much about this year. I can't complain a lot either. There wasn't a lot they could do to make this team better. I think they could have gone after some better free agent or trade for some better pitchers. Correia was an awful signing until he actually turned out to be decent. Pelfrey, I was ok with due to the money and am hopeful he'll figure it out soon here.

 

2014. They spent a lot on starting pitching and so far those three have one quality start between them. It's still the beginning of April so we really can't judge any of these yet. They were allegedly still purusing Ervin and Garza as well. Now had they signed one of them instead of Pelfrey, I'd be pretty ecstatic and feel optimistic we could push for a wildcard. The only other thing I would have like to see them do is bring in Stephen Drew, draft pick be damned.

 

All this is just my way of saying, yes I do think they will sign guys to plug holes. I don't know if they'll sign a big name guy but they're moving in that direction with Willingham a couple years ago and now with Nolasco. The Twins have changed since moving into the new stadium and shown more of a willingness to sign some free agents. Somewhat out of necessity. I don't think they're going to be players for the Robinson Cano's and Zach Greinke's anytime soon either though and I'm fine with that.

 

I think the future is now though honestly. This year may not be amazing but we've already got Dozier and Pinto looking better. Hicks isn't wowing anyone with his numbers but it's a much better start than last year and I am encouraged by his near 1:1 K:BB ratio. We should see Meyer and possibly May by years end in some role. So to me trading away a guy like Dozier at this point is foolish. He is under control for the next five years so even if they don't start competing until 2016 or 2017 like you are saying he'll still be there. If Rosario develops into a competent 2B than we have a great problem. Right now we have what is appearing to be an emerging good 2B with defensive chops and power then a lot of question marks.

[halfchest]

sorry for the long post

[Mike Sixel]

halfchest.....in order not to hijack the thread.....I'll just say I hope you are right.

[twinsfan34]

Would have to listen to any offer.

 

But the Sox would have to know the Twins Socks off.

 

As others mentioned, I don't seem the stopgap being as expensive as Dozier. Perhaps the Red Sox acquire a Omar Infante or Emilio Bonifacio (Cubs) type of player. I think the Cubs have 3 2B on the roster. Bonifacio, Barney (GG winner), and Valbeuna in addition to having 2 top 10 prospects at AAA in Arismendy Alcantara and Javier Baez. Baez is a SS now, however it doesn't seem like he'll stick at SS and the fact they have Starlin Castro, only 23 years old, a the position. 3B was/is an option, however they have Mike Olt there now and Kris Bryant in AA...and likely call up in Sept. So 2B is definitely a position of plenty for the Cubs.

 

So I could see any of those solutions. Cubs would be willing to take a flyer of a prospect by comparison of value to what a team like the Twins would do as in June after the Super 2 date passes they'll want to bring Baez up anyway.

[LaBombo]

It seems to me that Rosario's future with the Twins depends pretty heavily on where Hicks tops out. If his ceiling is 4th or 5th OF, then Rosario is insurance if disaster befalls Buxton and also likely the next best thing to an offensively qualified corner outfielder to bookend with Arcia.

 

Think about it this way: If Rosario is a substantial upgrade over every other potential 2015 corner OF besides Arcia, why would the Twins trade him? And given the marginal nature of those other options, what would the Twins get for Rosario if he's not a substantial upgrade? And his 50 game detour has probably hurt his trade value a bit as well.

 

This could all be moot if Rosario plays great defense at second, but with the late start he probably has not yet given the Twins the chance to consider a Dozier trade offer with much confidence that Rosario is the second baseman of 2015 and beyond.

[DuluthFan]

Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.

 

With some improvement by the struggling starters, this team could legitimately approach a .500 season. We need the starters to limit the opposition to 4 runs or less over 6 or 7 innings. The offense seems to have found a way to score some runs.

 

The Twins will not go from a 90 loss team to a 90 win team without going through a .500 season. This may be that season. The big prospects are at least a year or two away from contributing at the major league level. Sure they may be called up this year to get their feet wet, but that doesn't mean they will be able to produce at the major league level.

[LaBombo]

Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.

Nobody is suggesting dumping Dozier, just the possibility that a potential long-term replacement exists in Rosario, freeing the Twins to trade Dozier for something they don't have, like a legit MLB shortstop or at least a strong SS prospect.

 

While I don't see the Twins moving Dozier, he's a perfect example of fans being forced to watch an overmatched minor leaguer for half a season and then being rewarded for it the following season with a solid year from an emerging young player.

 

Hicks may duplicate that same pattern this season. Pinto's defense may be a work in progress, but I'd rather see him catch 100 games than Suzuki. Does anybody have fond memories of Ron Coomer's 140 games in the 2000 season as the replacement for a demoted Doug Mientkiewicz? Me neither

[70charger]

sorry for the long post

 

Don't apologize; that was great.

[nicksaviking]

Two weeks into what looks like a watchable team and posters are trying to trade away the better players on the team. Let's wait until it looks like there is no hope for the team before dumping the players that are helping this team win. I do not want to watch a team filled with minor leaguers again. It hasn't helped the last two years.

 

Hypotheticlly, if the Twins could get an A prospect for Dozier now because of another teams desperation, but have a 75% chance of only getting a C prospect for Dozier three months from now when this team is unwatchable again do you still keep him?

[Mike Sixel]

"two months into a watchable season, and people want to trade Josh Willingham? He's part of the short and medium term future. He's the only source of power on this roster. Need to hold onto him to increase his value".....those were the days.....

[Guest USAFChief]

Hypotheticlly, if the Twins could get an A prospect for Dozier now because of another teams desperation, but have a 75% chance of only getting a C prospect for Dozier three months from now when this team is unwatchable again do you still keep him?

I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.

[JB_Iowa]

I think this is all totally hypothetical because I believe that there is a great deal of pressure on the front office and on the field staff to win this season.

 

Or, at least improve significantly enough to keep people coming to the ballpark after the AS break.

 

I just don't see them trading away a young player who is playing well. I don't think that precludes a Willingham or Kubel or Correia or Pelfrey (or probably a few others) from being traded later.

 

There may be potential replacements for Dozier but "potential" is the word there and there are still a lot of questions up in the air about those replacements.

[mnfireman]

I would rather wait and see if Dozier can move back to SS when Rosario comes up. Mauer, Rosario, Dozier and Sano around the IF looks pretty good to me (2015).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I think this is all totally hypothetical because I believe that there is a great deal of pressure on the front office and on the field staff to win this season.

 

Or, at least improve significantly enough to keep people coming to the ballpark after the AS break.

 

I just don't see them trading away a young player who is playing well. I don't think that precludes a Willingham or Kubel or Correia or Pelfrey (or probably a few others) from being traded later.

 

There may be potential replacements for Dozier but "potential" is the word there and there are still a lot of questions up in the air about those replacements.

 

I also think there's pressure prior to the All Star break. With the baseball universe descending on Minneapolis this summer, I don't think Pohlad wants to be the host with another bungling team 15 games under .500 and having to answer questions (though I think it might be too late, the bed's been made). Well we're currently at .500 ; so far so good, though.

 

Agree. Dozier is going nowhere.

[Thrylos]

I think that it will be smart to trade Dozier (or anyone) for the right return. Look at the Rays' model.

 

That said, this particular one is not happening, because Pedroia's injury is actually less serious than Willingham's (not even DL)

[JB_Iowa]

There is always the problem of getting the right return.

 

But second, one of the things that this club needs now is players with whom fans have developed or are developing some liking and recognition. This club is sadly without that. It was one of the things I was thinking about in the Mauer lightning rod thread -- his is one of the few (only?) names/faces that most fans would recognize -- no wonder he is a lightning rod on a losing team.

 

While Dozier doesn't have name recognition in the same manner, he at least played with the ML club for 1+ seasons and he is somewhat charismatic (good interview, good looking, southern friendliness).

 

I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.

 

This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.

[jokin]

There is always the problem of getting the right return.

 

But second, one of the things that this club needs now is players with whom fans have developed or are developing some liking and recognition. This club is sadly without that. It was one of the things I was thinking about in the Mauer lightning rod thread -- his is one of the few (only?) names/faces that most fans would recognize -- no wonder he is a lightning rod on a losing team.

 

While Dozier doesn't have name recognition in the same manner, he at least played with the ML club for 1+ seasons and he is somewhat charismatic (good interview, good looking, southern friendliness).

 

I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.

 

 

Don't let Dave St Peter end up making this decision like he (apparently) made a "good business decision" to jettison Hardy for nothing in return and signing Nishi with the intention of expanding the Twins brand to Japan.

[jokin]

This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.

 

If Dozier can truly hack it SS, I'd be all in favor of an extension, unfortunately, there are very few players who fail at the 2nd most difficult field position, only to come back later and end up playing it competently.

[Thrylos]

I can envision him becoming a fan favorite. And while that may not be a good baseball reason to keep him, it may well be a good business reason to keep him.

 

The problem is that those PR decisions at some point add to bad business decisions. I think that the majority of the fans would prefer winning vs familiar faces (esp. familiar faces from the dark times.) New guys who play well can become the new fan favorites. A year ago 90% of the Twin Cities (at least the ones who are old enough to remember) thought that Pinto was only a car. Now they know that he is a catcher. And nobody is complaining about Butera being gone (not that Dozier is Butera-like by any means.)

[halfchest]

I do. IMO the way to build a watchable major league team is to accumulate major league players. Trying to build a major league team by constantly getting rid of major league players in favor of prospects is how you spend a couple decades wandering the desert like the KC Royals.

 

Dead on. I could see if he had one year or maybe even if we only had a couple years but we have five years with the guy and I believe his value will only go up. I guess he's been doing it long enough that yes I believe he is a good defensive 2B with power. That would put him in the top half of 2B. His ceiling is probably more like top 5-10 2B if he continues with what he's done now for about the past 5 months of baseball.

[Thrylos]

This. It would be one thing if Dozier was here on a one year deal, but guys like Brian are the future. I'd be looking at an extension by the end of this season if the play continues. He's controlled into that future team, and an extension can buy out a year or two of FA. Given the 2B talent coming through the system, I'd start thinking about trying him back at SS.

 

Those things in bold contradict each other...

 

Mainly because there is likely better 2B talent coming up the system than Dozier. As far as SS goes, I dare to venture that there is better talent there (in high A and below) than Dozier. Someone like Polanco (A+, whom I have on top of the SS prospect chart) might not pan out at SS (the jury is still out) but if he does not, he will probably top the 2B depth chart in the organization right now as well (with Rosario pretty close). Vielma (A) and Minier ® are following. Goodrum (A+) is still a question mark and playing 3B exclusively now.

 

And to qualify this, the more and more I look at Dozier, the more and more he looks like another former Twins' SS prospect who ended up in a different position: Scott Leius.

[JB_Iowa]

Mainly because there is likely better 2B talent coming up the system than Dozier.

 

But that's the problem here. "LIKELY" better talent. None of them is close enough that you can say with definiteness, that they ARE better or when they'll arrive. Rosario is the closest and I'm taking no bets there.

 

We are talking right now during the 2014 season about a possible trade -- not sometime down the road. I've been known to rue marketing decisions playing into the baseball ones (Nishioka is a prime example for me). But at this point in time, this team has very few recognizable faces. The Twins are fortunate that Kubel has been playing well because he has some name recognition. Willingham has name recognition but can't stay on the field. Plouffe has some name recognition as well. Pinto, Hicks, Arcia will (hopefully) develop that recognition but it isn't there yet.

 

Yes, I'd trade Dozier if the offer blew me away. But that's not going to happen -- trades are seldom that uneven. There is just no reason to trade him at this point in time.

[Guest USAFChief]

But that's the problem here. "LIKELY" better talent. None of them is close enough that you can say with definiteness, that they ARE better or when they'll arrive. Rosario is the closest and I'm taking no bets there.

 

Concur.

 

I would add my personal opinion that making big league roster moves based on A ball prospects is a really really good way to end up with a bad team now, and a bad team later.

 

Prospects are necessary to the health of all teams, but should never be counted on in advance.

[Riverbrian]

I believe that Brian Dozier is exactly the type of player the Twins would want to acquire in trade talks with any team.

 

Young... Cost Controlled and getting it done. Trading Willingham makes sense... Trading Dozier makes no sense unless the Sox give up Bogaerts in return.

 

I also believe... We don't officially have 2B depth until Rosario actually gets to the majors and performs.

 

Trading a young Dozier for younger unproven players is doing the same thing my cat does... Spinning around in circles... Chasing its tail.

[jokin]

Concur.

 

I would add my personal opinion that making big league roster moves based on A ball prospects is a really really good way to end up with a bad team now, and a bad team later.

 

Prospects are necessary to the health of all teams, but should never be counted on in advance.

 

How about A+, AA and AAA prospects? It has definitely been painful with the vacuum left at the top of the order, but it certainly appears that Meyer is going to work out. If you can get someone who has performed similarly at AA or AAA and "projects" well, isn't it the same kind of "no pain/no gain" type of move, as well, only less of a risk than the Span trade was?

[jokin]

I believe that Brian Dozier is exactly the type of player the Twins would want to acquire in trade talks with any team.

 

Young... Cost Controlled and getting it done. Trading Willingham makes sense... Trading Dozier makes no sense unless the Sox give up Bogaerts in return.

 

I also believe... We don't officially have 2B depth until Rosario actually gets to the majors and performs.

 

Trading a young Dozier for younger unproven players is doing the same thing my cat does... Spinning around in circles... Chasing its tail.

 

Why would the Red Sox trade Bogaerts for Dozier, makes no sense? We traded Span and Revere for "young, unproven players", I'd hardly call that tail-chasing. And I would argue that this sort of deal is much more responsible, as the Twins have far more potential depth at 2nd than we had in CF.