On 2/7/2024 at 7:38 PM, Blyleven2011 said:

It would be nice if the FO could at least come forth with a statement to the fans that they are working diligently towards improving the team or this is the team we are comfortable with ,  like they did at the deadline last year  ...

Why would they want to expose what they are trying to do if they are negotiating on multiple fronts? Seems to me the assumption is that there is always some level of working diligently towards improving the team…….that’s the bulk of the FO’s job.

On 2/9/2024 at 10:37 AM, chpettit19 said:

If Terry Francona openly states someone had to go because they were just so bad for his clubhouse that person is automatically out for any team I'm running.

Bauer had a lot more problems than his off the field activities! As you mention, a “players coach” like Francona couldn’t stand him - he was arrogant in his time here in Cincinnati - his Dodger career was not smooth!

Clevinger, vilified here in TD for the most part. What I found in a cursory search was that a former female friend made accusations - he had moved on with someone else and the former wanted a pound of flesh. MLB interviewed 15 people around the situation and gave Clevinger no penalty…….,They suspended Bauer for hundreds of games and he appealed & got it reduced to under 200 games. Pretty different situations.

Clevinger had a 9-9 record with the lowly White Sox in ‘23. 131 innings and an ERA of 3.77. He’s a veteran that gets guys out! Assuming about $16M/yr for a couple years. Seems like the best way to add quality depth and keep trade assets for another day.

I'm in.  let's sign him for league minimum with incentives.  We can always cut the cord.  And we can do it quickly before he becomes a big problem is he is acting up.  League minimum isnt too debilitating even for our team.  

On 2/7/2024 at 5:42 AM, Doctor Gast said:

I'd love to better this team, and continue this momentum of success & fan excitement by getting a postseason SP. IMO currently Bauer is a non-issue in the clubhouse so I'd sign him. But apparently, you're right & we won't get that much-needed SP. That & further broadcasting black-outs will squelch that momentum. They'd likely get a Desclafani upgrade & say we got your postseason SP & many will buy it.

They should take a chance on Bauer and if he is a bad fit let him go.  They could put conditions in the contract to protect themselves.

On 2/9/2024 at 9:51 AM, rhal said:

Bauer is a terrible idea and he would destroy this team.  Whether his actions were criminal or not he was exposed as someone who completely disrespects women.  Can you for a moment think about what kind of message that would send to 40-50% of the Twins fanbase?  Even more since guys like me wouldn't even spit in his direction.  In addition, putting aside his many public problems, he's a horrible clubhouse guy.  There's a reason no one has signed him.  He's selfish, abrasive and focused on being the center of attention at all times.  He seems like a horrible human being to have to work with on a daily basis and a terrible addition to any team. 

Here’s the problem with your statement.  First of all he was proven innocent and it was also proven the woman making those accusations did it hoping to get a big paycheck and others piled on because she did.  That’s NOT his fault that’s defamation.  We DONT’ know if he disrespects women.  In fact we don’t know at all.  Did he defend himself vehemently?  Yes he did and so would you or me if we were in his shoes.  I can’t fault him for fighting back and being very upset about it.  Has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with her being a despicable human being and a crook.  She’s lucky she didn’t get a felony conviction out of it. 

Now in regards to your second accusation about him being selfish, abrasive, a horrible clubhouse guy, etc.  He’s a fierce competitor and no nonsense guy.  Some people don't like that but if he performs and pushes other pitchers to excel I’m not opposed to having some fire in the clubhouse.  
 

I will say it again .... Barry Bonds was easily one of the top ten players in baseball and no team would offer him a contract, even after he publicly stated that he would play for a minimum contract. 

Corporations work differently than charities. While I have absolutely nothing against Trevor Bauer, why does anyone believe he will receive an MLB contract this year? Every team could use another starting pitcher, yet not a single whisper and every national writer has written that they do not expect Bauer to get a deal. Sad but true.

1 hour ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

After reading all the responses, I can see both ways.  How about we get him to sign a MiLB contract, stash him at STP for the start of the season, and tell him he is on double secret probation.  If he is NOT a clubhouse cancer down there and pitching acceptably, then we can bring him up.  If he is a cancer or has nothing left in the tank, then we cut him having lived with a "hopefully brief" clubhouse disruption at AAA, but without impacting the major league club.

What you may be missing is that MLB front office folks are holding all of the cards. 

There are people who oppose signing Bauer, there are people in favor of signing Bauer. It doesn't matter. The corporate heads hold the power.  There is a chance - .0001%, but Bauer is still unsigned by an MLB team. 

On 2/11/2024 at 3:10 AM, JD-TWINS said:

Bauer had a lot more problems than his off the field activities! As you mention, a “players coach” like Francona couldn’t stand him - he was arrogant in his time here in Cincinnati - his Dodger career was not smooth!

Clevinger, vilified here in TD for the most part. What I found in a cursory search was that a former female friend made accusations - he had moved on with someone else and the former wanted a pound of flesh. MLB interviewed 15 people around the situation and gave Clevinger no penalty…….,They suspended Bauer for hundreds of games and he appealed & got it reduced to under 200 games. Pretty different situations.

Clevinger had a 9-9 record with the lowly White Sox in ‘23. 131 innings and an ERA of 3.77. He’s a veteran that gets guys out! Assuming about $16M/yr for a couple years. Seems like the best way to add quality depth and keep trade assets for another day.

I'm with you on this idea. I particularly never liked Bauer as a person/personality, but if he or Clevinger look like they can add that extra something to our starting rotation and make us force in the playoffs, I wouldn't hesitate to sign either one of them. And it won't cost us a valuable prospect either. Seems like a plausible idea to me. The whole idea of "morality" or "values" can be twisted all sorts of different ways. Hey, didn't we have players like Cruz and Polanco who were suspended for PED's, and yet now people are now shuddering at the idea of a Bauer or Clevinger on the team? Once again; if they can show us good results, come over to the Twin Cities and help us win a pennant,

Mike Clevinger 60-39 career ~ 3.45 career ERA and an ERA close to Pablo Lopez’s last year. Possible #2 starter for playoffs. Reasonable price.

Trevor Bauer was never "proven innocent." As happens in many cases, prosecutors reviewed evidence and made a decision that they lacked evidence to prove a criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Bauer brought the matter to court when he filed a civil suit against his accuser. Bauer was entitled to his day in court where he could present evidence subject to cross-examination and conflicting evidence. Instead Bauer dismissed his suit and took the matter to the court of public opinion where his evidence would not be subject to cross-examination and conflicting evidence. Did Bauer offer the public only the evidence that supported his version of events? Did Bauer withhold from the public evidence that supported his accuser's version of events?

We'll probably never know.

A prospective employer may acknowledge that an applicant has specific skills to help the enterprise but that personality factors may make that prospective employee a poor fit in the company millieu.

Before the reports that resulted in Trevor Bauer's MLB suspension (that was upheld by an independent arbitor), the 2019 book The MVP Machine profiled Bauer, among others baseball players:

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/ben-lindbergh/the-mvp-machine/9781541698956/?lens=basic-books

On the basis of that profile alone an MLB team might be reluctant to bring the polarizing Bauer on board.

Every MLB team has reason to avoid Trevor Bauer but no team should be condemned for giving Bauer another chance.

CLevinger yes.

Bauer no.

Only if he takes his meds. lol

I could be on board with a Mike Clevinger signing, especially if it's just a one-year.  He WOULD slot in as our #2 to begin the season.  If it works out, maybe the Twins and Clevinger look for a longer extension.  But with the $47 Million payday with the new TV contract, I think a clever move would be to sign Brandan Woodruff to a 2-3 year contract, let him rehab in 2024 and join Lopez at the top of our rotation in 2025. It would be an investment in the long term that could pay HUGE dividends.  

On 2/9/2024 at 7:38 PM, Heiny said:

I would take a chance on Bauer.  He knows he has to behave.  If he don't he gets cut.  Super low risk at min salary.  Super high rewards possible.  Go for it.

Like others DON'T condone what he was accused of but... he has done his time as they say. 

If he would sign a minor league deal with a major league kicker if he makes the team.. okay. 

If there are ANY signs of an issue... CUT immediately. 

On 2/12/2024 at 3:36 PM, harmony55 said:

Trevor Bauer was never "proven innocent." As happens in many cases, prosecutors reviewed evidence and made a decision that they lacked evidence to prove a criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Bauer brought the matter to court when he filed a civil suit against his accuser. Bauer was entitled to his day in court where he could present evidence subject to cross-examination and conflicting evidence. Instead Bauer dismissed his suit and took the matter to the court of public opinion where his evidence would not be subject to cross-examination and conflicting evidence. Did Bauer offer the public only the evidence that supported his version of events? Did Bauer withhold from the public evidence that supported his accuser's version of events?

We'll probably never know.

A prospective employer may acknowledge that an applicant has specific skills to help the enterprise but that personality factors may make that prospective employee a poor fit in the company millieu.

Before the reports that resulted in Trevor Bauer's MLB suspension (that was upheld by an independent arbitor), the 2019 book The MVP Machine profiled Bauer, among others baseball players:

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/ben-lindbergh/the-mvp-machine/9781541698956/?lens=basic-books

On the basis of that profile alone an MLB team might be reluctant to bring the polarizing Bauer on board.

Every MLB team has reason to avoid Trevor Bauer but no team should be condemned for giving Bauer another chance.

I say give him a minor league contract.  He was not prosecuted, and the case was so weak in fact (she allegedly claimed he got her pregnant which turned out to be false), he countersued her.   

4 hours ago, laloesch said:

I say give him a minor league contract.  He was not prosecuted, and the case was so weak in fact (she allegedly claimed he got her pregnant which turned out to be false), he countersued her.   

To be precise: Trevor Bauer sued his accuser and his accuser filed a countersuit against Bauer.

On 2/12/2024 at 7:05 AM, Doctor Wu said:

I'm with you on this idea. I particularly never liked Bauer as a person/personality, but if he or Clevinger look like they can add that extra something to our starting rotation and make us force in the playoffs, I wouldn't hesitate to sign either one of them. And it won't cost us a valuable prospect either. Seems like a plausible idea to me. The whole idea of "morality" or "values" can be twisted all sorts of different ways. Hey, didn't we have players like Cruz and Polanco who were suspended for PED's, and yet now people are now shuddering at the idea of a Bauer or Clevinger on the team? Once again; if they can show us good results, come over to the Twin Cities and help us win a pennant,

Not only that, the Twins not long ago had a guy (Miguel Sano) with similar accusations thrown at him.  A lot of the commenters here objecting to Bauer were strangely quiet and or even vehemently defended Sano in this forum.  I don't understand the double standard (well I kind of do but won't elaborate on it here). 

If the Twins don't want any part of that baggage with Bauer plus the "alleged" clubhouse personality issues, fair enough.  All I want is for this team to have a chance at making the playoffs again this season and if he can help do that, go for it.  That said, I don't think the Twins do it.

33 minutes ago, harmony55 said:

To be precise: Trevor Bauer sued his accuser and his accuser filed a countersuit against Bauer.

To be even more precise: According to ESPN he countersued her for fraud, unless we are talking about a different incident (I don't think we are).  

"......July 2021 after the allegations were made by the woman, who said Bauer assaulted her on two different occasions during what she said began as consensual sexual encounters between them."

""Court records show Bauer's attorneys first denied her assault allegations in April and countersued her for fraud, labeling the woman's lawsuit and informal demands for money as "harassment."" They said Bauer has recordings of their conversations, which show the woman asked for "$1.6 million to terminate a pregnancy at her request."

When asked to produce evidence of paternity, pregnancy, and the subsequent abortion (she at first claimed she refused to have one then had one) she was unable to do so on any of the court's requests, nor produce any evidence of the alleged assault and battery side of the allegation in court which is ultimately why their attorney's agreed to drop the case and settle out of court (no direct payment from him, but through insurance).  

There's a lot of ambiguity surrounding what actually happened with Bauer, but there should be no doubt whatsoever about what would happen if a team signed him to any sort of deal.  It's a PR nightmare and the backpedaling would cost money, time and credibility in the community.  Why make this own-goal?  This isn't the NFL where Ray Lewis can kill someone and be playing a year later. MLB fans are a little more sensitive to dirtbag players these days.

4 hours ago, laloesch said:

To be even more precise: According to ESPN he countersued her for fraud, unless we are talking about a different incident (I don't think we are).  

"......July 2021 after the allegations were made by the woman, who said Bauer assaulted her on two different occasions during what she said began as consensual sexual encounters between them."

""Court records show Bauer's attorneys first denied her assault allegations in April and countersued her for fraud, labeling the woman's lawsuit and informal demands for money as "harassment."" They said Bauer has recordings of their conversations, which show the woman asked for "$1.6 million to terminate a pregnancy at her request."

When asked to produce evidence of paternity, pregnancy, and the subsequent abortion (she at first claimed she refused to have one then had one) she was unable to do so on any of the court's requests, nor produce any evidence of the alleged assault and battery side of the allegation in court which is ultimately why their attorney's agreed to drop the case and settle out of court (no direct payment from him, but through insurance).  

Lindsey Hill, the first public accuser, made allegations outside of court before Trevor Bauer filed a civil suit and Hill responded with a countersuit.

Bauer countersued a different woman who initiated a civil suit:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/37853562/trevor-bauer-faces-another-sexual-assault-allegation-countersues-fraud

https://apnews.com/article/trevor-bauer-sexual-assault-new-allegation-d9dba30c182e13dbf27f57db312c9fd1

18 hours ago, laloesch said:

Not only that, the Twins not long ago had a guy (Miguel Sano) with similar accusations thrown at him.  A lot of the commenters here objecting to Bauer were strangely quiet and or even vehemently defended Sano in this forum.  I don't understand the double standard (well I kind of do but won't elaborate on it here). 

If the Twins don't want any part of that baggage with Bauer plus the "alleged" clubhouse personality issues, fair enough.  All I want is for this team to have a chance at making the playoffs again this season and if he can help do that, go for it.  That said, I don't think the Twins do it.

I think it's highly unlikely they will, or would, sign him either. I also understand the need to not upset people/fans by signing any player with any sort of controversial baggage. But we are all humans and make mistakes, I think most people are forgiving enough to give someone a second chance, especially if can perform at an all-star level again. But at this point, I'd be shocked if ANY team in the league signs him this season. 

I'd be on board with offering Bauer a minor league contract at the MLB minimum with incentives if he achieves certain benchmarks.  But understand this:  If the Twins took the risk of offering him a minor league deal as I stated above, they'd be "in for a penny, in for a pound."  His talent would play.  He'd make the team out of spring training.  Why have him pitching in St. Paul when he could be in Minneapolis?  It's not like he'd be in Cedar Rapids!

I maintain that he's still got a lot of gas in the tank.  He's only 33 years old.  He's at least 2 years away from the point where it gets dicey for pitchers.  I also maintain that at the price that the Twins would have to pay him (money-wise), it's a         NO-LOSE situation.  If he steps off the path of righteousness at all, he's cut and never heard from again.  Literally.   

At this point, we're probably at a place where if he isn't signed by somebody within a week it's not going to happen.  But as soon as SOMEONE suffers a devastating injury to their rotation who thinks they can contend,  that could all change.  Since St. Paul is now the Twins AAA affiliate it won't be there.  But 15 years ago, St. Paul is probably where a guy like Bauer would have ended up until some team desperate enough to need him would make the call.   

Guys, I live in LA and went through the "fun" with Bauer. Reading the almost daily media coverage about the statements from Bauer and his accuser and all of the alleged evidence left one with a very low opinion of both people. Perhaps more relevant to the debate about bringing him back to pitch on the Twins, I think it's interesting that when he could come back the Dodgers chose not to bring him back even though they were pretty desperate for starting pitching at the time due to injuries and had real WS aspirations. There was also a rumor that the Dodgers polled the players about bringing him back and the players were almost uniformly against him returning to the team. You never know how much of that were the allegations or whether he was a bad teammate (a rumor that has always followed him) but that strikes me as fairly revealing.

Could Bauer help the team as a picture on the field? Absolutely. Is it worth it for the publicity and the chance he will cause issues in what is a pretty close knit clubhouse? IMO, no and it's not even a very close call.

On 2/9/2024 at 10:16 AM, Doctor Gast said:

Thank you Topp Gun, for your response, I'd like to challenge ourselves to question that maybe social media is wrong about Bauer. Then Bauer deserves a 2nd chance to help MN to advance to the World Series. Maybe if there were any poor clubhouse vibes he has matured where there is at least it's a non-factor. Like Jack Morris, players didn't care about his lack of clubhouse leadership but his desire to win. Morris never helped young pitchers while Bauer is eager to do so.

Correa has gotten a lot of social media slack for his part in the sign-stealing scandal & is booed by many. Why not give Bauer the same courtesy who paid the price & was declared innocent? Unlike Donaldson, our monetary commitment would be minimal where we could let Bauer go if he did anything to hurt the Twins' chances by poor performance or any toxicity. There's nothing to lose & everything to gain.

Some called me a Cave hater, he was a perfectly fine cOF sub but not a Buxton sub in CF. Some called me a Polanco hater because I advocated for him to move off SS. Some call me a Jeffers hater, because I thinks he's a perfectly fine back-up but not a starter. Other call me a Polanco lover because I was against trading him now. I suppose some may call me a Bauer lover because I'm willing to give him a chance. None of these are true. There's one thing I'm passionate about & that is to see the Twins win another WS.

Why not give Bauer the same courtesy? Apples and oranges. And a lot of people didn’t want Correa, either, and several here who still don’t. But it’s worth mentioning that Bauer still has three impending suits to settle. If they go the same as the first, a team might be willing to give him that chance. But until those cases are settled, no owner wants that risk. When and how those other cases go might determine whether or not he gets signed anywhere, but likely won’t until they are settled,

Also, keep in mind that MLB did its own investigation, separate from governmental courts, lawyers, and public opinion. They found that Bauer violated their policy on domestic abuse. Bauer appealed but wasn’t able to negate the suspension, only reduce it. I don’t know what evidence MLB had or what their standard is, but it’s not nothing that they gave him the suspension they did and it’s not nothing the suspension was still a year long after appeal, the longest given for this type of case. Do owners have access to the evidence and findings in these cases? Sometimes decisions aren’t just about the skill of the player and perhaps owners are leery about the whole package.

But if Francona, one of the most respected men in baseball, doesn’t want him on his team during a playoff run because he’s a ruiner of the clubhouse, and this prior to any of these public accusations, that should and does speak volumes. You might be able to tame a tiger, but it’s still a tiger and should be treated as such. (Siegfried and Roy learned that the hard way.) From all accounts I’ve read, the Twins have a great clubhouse. The camaraderie of the players is apparent. I don’t want to disrupt that. It’s an intangible that, imo, does make a difference. Oil and water don’t mix.

On top of that, how good of a pitcher is he really anymore? Most are remembering a couple of good season out of many and wanting the pitcher he once was. I don’t think he’s all that anymore, and not good enough to be worth the baggage he brings. He’s 33, and while he might be able to give some decent innings, I don’t think he’s the level of pitcher anymore that you claim to want. Lopez is certainly better and I think Ober is, too, and Ryan probably is better at this point, too, maybe, with a good year. So you are taking a risk on a guy who maybe would be your third or fourth best. I think you might be basing your opinions that Bauer would be better on past laurels that aren’t current. I’d rather the Twins spend prospect capital to get the SP you seek. That pitcher, in ability, is no longer Bauer.