Agree completely! Well stated. 

Doing nothing to solve some of the problems and appear to at least be trying seems to ooze incompetence. 

22 minutes ago, specialiststeve said:

Agree completely! Well stated. 

Doing nothing to solve some of the problems and appear to at least be trying seems to ooze incompetence. 

Or they know more about the game, currently, than all the moanng and gnashing of teeth going on here.

"is it OK to hope for a collapse if it means the longterm health (or at least a better chance at long term health) of the team I love?"

In a word, yes. This team is like a junky friend who you've tried to help, and nothing has worked because they don't even realize they have a problem. They have to hit rock bottom first. The sooner this happens for the Twins, the brighter their future becomes.

46 minutes ago, RpR said:

Or they know more about the game, currently, than all the moanng and gnashing of teeth going on here.

That could be , but here is where it is confusing... they come out and tell teh players it is on them, if they would just play to their capabilities then we wouldnt have been in this mess and we will get ou tof the mess,  BUT...

Kepler = right at his career averages in BA and OPS.

Gallo = only slightly below career averages

Michael taylor = below avg but higher OPS than career avg. and was brought in for defense anyways

Buxton = obviously below career avgs, but only .239 and .768 OPS so even if he is at averages isnt a huge improvement.

Carlos Correa = yes, that is a fair assessment for him well below career averages across the board.

Polanco = pretty well below career averages

Kyle Farmer = actually ABOVE career averages

Kirilloff = well above career averages, but continues to show historical trend of injuries

Willie Castro = at or above career averages

Jeffers = WELL above career averages.

So this is not 100% about the players failing,  it is about a flawed construction, which many people said in advance of the year was flawed due to redundancies.

Maybe "Falvines" comments were directed specifically at Buxton, and Correa, but still it is plain to see there was .

AND,..  even if they do know what they are doing (after a string of trades for pitchers with known injury histories aside) They have to also know when to adjust. 

and a very specific example of  2 different front offices.... right before deadline Kirilloff goes on DL with a shoulder.  WE stand pat and our solution looks to be to play Gallo at 1B and his 50% K rate.  In Toronto, the day before the deadline, SS Bo Bichette goes down with a knee, the FO adjusts and trades for Paul DeJong giving up only a 24 year old releiver from AA.

Meanwhile I sit here and watch Polanco and Gallo butcher plays at 1B/3B.

The comment concerning a flawed roster is fair. 

2 hours ago, RpR said:

Or they know more about the game, currently, than all the moanng and gnashing of teeth going on here.

Lacking of insight by the front office seems to be catching... 

Yet those of the gnashing of teeth and woeful cries have SO MUCH insight.😨

16 hours ago, RpR said:

Or they know more about the game, currently, than all the moanng and gnashing of teeth going on here.

Checked out schedules last night………I think you are right on the knowledge angle!

The Twins have 15 games out of 54 left with over .500 teams.

The Guradians have 38 games out of 54 left with over .500 teams. The Guardians are down McKenzie & Bieber until mid-later September, best case! They just traded Civale. That’s their top 3 arms 6 weeks ago.

The Guradians traded Josh Bell.

Logic would tell you the Twins are nearly a lock for Division title. 

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

 

Logic would tell you the Twins are nearly a lock for Division title. 

Logic would have also told you that the Twins would have won 1, 2 or 3 games in the KC series.

Just now, IaBeanCounter said:

Logic would have also told you that the Twins would have won 1, 2 or 3 games in the KC series.

9-1 going into KC for the year - 162 games - things tend to level off.

If you don’t use logic to drive your actions in FO and behave like a fan, you will not have a job very long.

I'm okay with a collapse  , I won't like it but if that what it takes ownership to wake up  and see this isn't  acceptable baseball for the Twins fans , then so be it  ...

Time for this FO and coaches to go , they just don't have the skills to operate a roster that have quality skills , 2 plus years of embarrassing baseball is not acceptable  , WE ARE NOT GOiNG IN THE RiGHT DIRECTION ....,  but for what , to lose in the playoffs  ...

yes we could and should win the division 

Need new quality baseball  minds to run this team  with a goal set to win more than just the division title ...

We are not contenders  , stop being pretenders  ...

20 hours ago, Doc Munson said:

That could be , but here is where it is confusing... they come out and tell teh players it is on them, if they would just play to their capabilities then we wouldnt have been in this mess and we will get ou tof the mess,  BUT...

Kepler = right at his career averages in BA and OPS.

Gallo = only slightly below career averages

Michael taylor = below avg but higher OPS than career avg. and was brought in for defense anyways

Buxton = obviously below career avgs, but only .239 and .768 OPS so even if he is at averages isnt a huge improvement.

Carlos Correa = yes, that is a fair assessment for him well below career averages across the board.

Polanco = pretty well below career averages

Kyle Farmer = actually ABOVE career averages

Kirilloff = well above career averages, but continues to show historical trend of injuries

Willie Castro = at or above career averages

Jeffers = WELL above career averages.

So this is not 100% about the players failing,  it is about a flawed construction, which many people said in advance of the year was flawed due to redundancies.

 

OK, I mostly agree with you and I don't want to let them off the hook, but this omits two underperformers who were so bad that they're barely a part of the equation anymore (Miranda and Gordon)

On 8/2/2023 at 11:06 AM, JD-TWINS said:

Checked out schedules last night………I think you are right on the knowledge angle!

The Twins have 15 games out of 54 left with over .500 teams.

The Guradians have 38 games out of 54 left with over .500 teams. The Guardians are down McKenzie & Bieber until mid-later September, best case! They just traded Civale. That’s their top 3 arms 6 weeks ago.

The Guradians traded Josh Bell.

Logic would tell you the Twins are nearly a lock for Division title. 

Yes, it is well known the Twins have the easiest schedule post break in MLB.  That is not the point when putting together a quality baseball team though.  I agree we are being GIVEN the AL Central title.  BUT we are putting together a team that has very little chance of succeeding once we get there.  The fact that many teams are OPENLY discussing how they want to be the #3 WC team so they will be able to play the Twins (or Clevelnad) in the first round speaks volumes. 

Of course we have a "chip-n-a-chair" chance if we get in, btu that is NOT what FO personnel should be building teams for..

ALL I ask is for our Front Office to try as hard as they expect our players to. I can live with results if the effort is there.

I am confused too as to why the front office did nothing. One of our better young players goes on IL just before the trade deadline and our front office does nothing. It appears their plan is to "hope" our current players will play better in the second half. I would have expected a better plan than to "hope" players do better. Almost any right handed hitter would be better than Gallo and it would seem there are better RP than several the Twins currently have.

I can only "hope" the front office is right and Twins players do better, but so far have not seen any change nor do I expect much of a change. The good news is that the Twins will probably win our division and with good pitching have a chance to win a playoff game or two. With a better front office we would have a better chance.