Riverbrian

Agreed... Although, I don't need the designated closer... but I'll take the "bevy of flamethrowers" because the entire bevy could all close when needed. When the Twins starting adding those type of guys and deepen that pen in this fashion, they will finally become what I call Bullpen serious.

In my opinion The Twins did not have to "trade Donaldson in order to sign or make a deal for a starting pitcher". It has been speculated by some that the money available now after trading Donaldson could be spent on starting pitching but one doesn't have anything to do with the other. I simply believe that the Twins will have a hard time spending the Donaldson money on starting pitching because it simply isn't available. The A's and Reds are the only sellers and the arms they have to trade (THAT ARE WORTH SOMETHING) are not expensive from a money standpoint... they are expensive from a prospect standpoint because they are probably fielding a lot of calls right now and that will drive the prospect price upward. The Twins could have kept Donaldson and still added a Montas, Castillo or Manaea to payroll along with the addition of Sonny Gray and been within what we typically shell out yearly. It'll be the prospect price and all the other clubs trying to acquire pitching that is prohibitive to bringing any of these guys to Minnesota. In my opinion... the Donaldson trade was a simple value trade and that's it. I believe that the Twins have been probably trying to off load that Donaldson contract for quite some time and found no takers because of the dollars left on his contract, his age, health and performance... yes performance relative to what he was paid for that performance. Some of us fans are upset because we are losing a good player but the reality is... I don't believe any of the 30 front offices wanted him. I believe that it took a player or players (Kiner-Falefa and Rortvedt) that the Yankees really wanted to be added to the deal for the Yankees to agree to take Donaldson's contract. Until these pieces came together... the Twins were probably getting nothing but crickets trying to move Donaldson and those crickets should help us all understand why the Twins moved him at this odd timing. It was because someone finally said OK... and the Twins took the deal before it became a no and the Twins were probably not planning on that happening. Surprise! It'll be hard to spend that Donaldson cash on pitching but they could spend it on Story directly and fill what is still a hole even with the addition of Urshela. Urshela, Arraez and Miranda are already in house to play some 3B and they can still add a Montas, Castillo or Manaea even if they spend all that money on Story. Then the trade becomes Donaldson for Story and I will personally take that deal... not that what I'd like to see matters. ?

I have this friend. I've known Josh for decades. Great Guy... I've seen him do favors for me and others without a second thought... sailed through med school, he's an expert in his field in something, I don't know what it is... too many syllables for me to remember or understand. Josh was coming to town for a couple of hockey games and he had an extra ticket because his wife had to stay home. He swung by, picked me up and on the way to the game, he was talking about how cold it was in Grand Forks because he had recently come back from Cancun or Chattanooga or someplace warmer. Just making conversation, I asked him how he liked the trip and while driving about 40mph in a 25, he fishes out his cell phone, locates all the photos and he goes over them with me... while driving about 40mph in a 25. In the process of pointing out the photos on his phone, he drifted to the other lane multiple times almost sideswiping a parked car on the opposite side, he also ran a stop sign without slowing down a bit. I had to make the suggestion that he show me the photo's later while pointing at the road. Things were much better when he actually started looking at the road but before we got to the arena, a car nosed out into the road. It had to because of a large snow pile that blocked the view of oncoming traffic. It was a surprise appearance because we also couldn't see with that snowbank. The car just slowly nosed out and Josh swerved a little to his left, it wasn't really that close but it was a surprise so Josh laid on the horn for about 15 seconds, while shouting, you stupid (whatever) and the things he said about that driver was pretty rude. It's good time to remind everyone that Josh is absolutely without question a very nice guy and very smart but he failed to connect his driving with others. When fans call coaches and front offices idiots or clueless or whatever, it reminds me of road rage reaction. Completely out of perspective. BTW... At the hockey game. We fell behind 2-1 in the 2nd period and after the goal was scored, Josh started telling me that it was time for Coach Berry to go. He couldn't believe that a player was moved to a different line and we were now losing the game and it was 100 percent on the coach. He went on for awhile about every mistake that Coach Berry had made during his entire career behind the bench (about 5 examples) and then he asked me what I thought. I told him that the City should do something about that snowbank.

I was that poster. There isn't a front office or head coach that isn't feeling the wrath of diehard fans. If you searched Crimsontidedaily. I'm sure you'll find a contingent of posters who think Nick Saban is clueless. This is what fans do when things don't go perfectly because they know that they have had 387 straight days of perfect performance doing whatever jobs they do and are absolutely qualified to judge because of their perfection. There are 30 of these jobs. Going through the interview process and the vetting to land the job with competition from all those candidates who have a clue just to end up getting the job and still be clueless when it is all said and done. That would be stunning if that actually happened. Now... How they stack up against their peers is probably where the debate could legitimately begin but diehard fans calling a major league front office clueless would be more interesting to me if I haven't heard it a million times. This what they do all day. They employ large staffs of people who do this stuff all day. The stuff they do... are the very definition of clues. ?

It's quite possible that the Yankees suggested Urshela in the deal. If it was the Yankees... it would have been an easy sell to the Twins with IFK going the other way. If it was the Twins... it would have been an easy sell to the Yankees with IFK going the other way. I can possibly agree with you on Polanco at SS being better... I don't have the same fear that others do about his SS abilities and potential utilization at SS even if 2B is clearly a better fit. Can't agree with you on Gordon and I don't think the Twins agree with you on either of them. Giving up Garver for IFK was a pretty clear indication that the Twins intend to keep Polanco at 2B, even with Arraez on the roster and the way they utilized Gordon last year seems to indicate that the Twins don't consider Gordon SS material. On the other hand... As I posted a couple of spots upward. Aaron Boone named Urshela the Yankees starting SS if nothing changed just hours before the trade. That seems to indicate that Urshela has SS ability that at least trumps Torres. It's easy to paint Urshela as an expensive utility. However, utility is something you are tagged with when the club you are on has stronger options. I like Urshela for his utility abilities so Miranda can be given a clean look this year when the time comes but... I like Urshela only if we acquire a significant SS talent with the Josh Donaldson money. Urshela handling the SS position because we failed to upgrade the spot would be horrible. If we don't acquire a significant SS with talent... this crazy weekend will have been a mistake. On Sanchez... I look at things in degrees. I think there is no doubt that there are defensive issues with Sanchez... maybe even significant issues. However, those issues are almost always over played on chat boards like these. I remember the conversations about Ben Revere's arm.. Yeah it wasn't the strongest arm but posters made it seems like baserunners were going to gain 3B every time by default because of it. No it's not a cannon but he can get the ball into the infield. Sanchez... may not be a good defensive catcher in comparison with others but most games will come and go without the defensive issue causing an issue. But Yeah... I suppose it will rear its head from time to time. The Key is getting some of that Garver power replaced.

Here's a quote from Aaron Boone just before the trade. I know that it suggests that they were still looking but it also suggests that there were some faith that Gio could handle the SS job if necessary. “Gio,” Boone said Sunday when asked about his shortstop right now — one of the biggest questions facing the team all offseason. “Gleyber [Torres] will have to mix in there. Obviously we’ve got some young guys that are knocking on the door that we’re really excited about, [Oswald] Peraza and [Oswaldo] Cabrera that are here. We’ll just let that situation shake out. I’m sure there’s still things to be done across the game and certainly with us that are going to change that landscape potentially along the way.”

No way of knowing from my chair but the one that thing that seems (almost) obvious is this: The Twins have been trying to move Donaldson's contract for probably awhile now and they finally found a taker. The other assumptions that I have (with no way of knowing) are not quite as obvious: Does this scenerio seem possible - 1. The Twins were looking for a SS 2. The were talking with the Rangers about IKF and probably were not talking about Garver originally. 3. The Yankees were looking for a SS and also talking with the Rangers about IKF. 4. In order for the Twins to beat the Yankees offer for IKF (Whatever it was) Garver became the new ask. 5. Once the Twins acquired IKF... The Yankees started talking to the Twins about IKF. 6. The Yankees were probably well aware of the Twins desire to move the Donaldson contract and agreed to take on the money in order to acquire the shorter term SS they needed. 7. The Twins would have insisted on Urshela being part of the deal because someone would have to play SS if they couldn't replace IFK. 8. After this new found opportunity and abupt change in gameplan... Falvey and Lavine quickly realize that they needed to make a phone call to the agent of Trevor Story because they were not expecting to move the Donaldson contract and now they have the money to fill the SS spot. 9. The agent of Trevor Story probably knows that the Twins really need a SS now. 10. Knowing the Twins need a SS. The agent of Trevor Story is probably trying to drive the price up and is having conversations with the media to float the impression that other teams are also interested in Trevor Story when there will be very few teams interested in him at the contract he is trying to get. 11. We will have to wait this out but the Twins pretty much have to sign Trevor Story now and I don't believe Story has a lot of options left that will allow him to stay at SS. BTW... the inclusion of Andrus in a deal to lessen the price of a Starting Pitcher with Oakland was something that I thought about. It's a possible solution however... there are some things that really bug me about that idea. Andrus is really struggling and simply doesn't look like an MLB player anymore. Taking your financial gains and giving up 15M to Andrus just to get a deal done for a SP cheaper doesn't address SS and the Twins were clearly trying to address SS to contend. After giving up Garver to solve the SS problem and not trading Garver for a prospect. Then trading a highly ranked future pitcher for Sonny Gray are the actions of a team that is trying to contend. If they are trying to contend and they clearly are. The newly found money from the Donaldson trade has to go somewhere and Story is the most obvious answer in the current team context. If Story does sign with someone else. Then... I don't know how the Twins dig themselves out of it.

I mean no disrespect to any front office, they are all better at what they do than us mere mortals making comments about what they are doing. However, I truly believe that "dart throwing and hoping something works" is something that every front office does on a regular basis, no matter how much data they absorb. The values of every player in the organization are not static, they change, evolve, regress year to year, moment to moment and team needs will change accordingly with all the ups and downs of individual players. I'll applaud any organization with the guts to move accordingly.

Dear Front Office, I apologize for the post above. Clearly you hadn't finished yet. I have my popcorn now and I'll sit back and watch. Sincerly, Riverbrian

We are going to find out how high they are. ?

Yeah... I don't like this trade much either. But... I'm going to agree with you by disagreeing with you. This isn't a trade that is made by losing teams. Losing teams wouldn't have traded two years of one of the top hitting performers at a hitting scarce position like catcher for two years of a defensive performer at a defensively scarce position like shortstop. Losing teams would have gotten a fairly decent prospect or two. Falvey mentioned that they had "Some Depth" at the catcher position. They HAD some depth with Garver and Jeffers... they don't have depth at catcher anymore and the funny thing is... with the edition of Kiner-Falefa... they still don't have depth at SS either.... so now you don't have depth at two positions instead of one. This trade is like pumping half the water that seeped into the northwest corner of your basement into the dry southwest corner of your basement. If I did that... my wife would ask me why I wrecked a dry corner trying to fix the wet corner and answering "for balance" would not satisfy her. The last time we moved a player from a position of "depth" to shore up a "thin" position... it was Aaron Hicks for John Ryan Murphy. By May we were desperately shoring up that OF depth with Robbie Grossman off the scrap heap plus we got to enjoy Juan Centeno at catcher to boot. Yep... We just did it again.

Frankie Montas does not fit my personal (totally subjective) definition of an ace. He is 28 years old and has been traded 3 times. Has only eclipsed 100 innings in the majors once (last year). He also has multiple seasons in the majors and minors with metrics that most would consider poor. He has shown some flashes... I'd love to have him but... Ace? Not in my book. Unless you include players who play for Reno. My personal (totally subjective) list of Aces has 8 names on it and that's all. Ohtani Cole Burnes Woodruff Scherzer Buehler DeGrom Bieber 5 of these 8 were drafted and developed. The other 3 were free agents that the Twins had no chance of signing and will have no chance of signing those types in the future. If you want an ace... Grow your own. Grow a couple while you are at it... like Milwaukee did.

When I stand at the sink. If I just turn on the hot water tap... it is usually too hot. If I just turn on the cold water tap... it is usually too cold. It isn't the right temperature until you starting combining them. A mix of the two is going to be required because you need to draw water from all taps. However, that hasn't been happening. It has been crafty vet after crafty vet. I'm pro mix, I don't have a problem with the crafty vet but I have a problem with letting the crafty vet kill us when they are not as crafty as advertised. The kid can be sent down, the vet typically can't be sent down. It doesn't seem to matter who the GM is... When we sign those lower priced crafty veterans to fill out the rotation, those lower priced crafty veterans are given every opportunity to struggle in the process of re-finding that craft. Happ and Shoemaker were terrible and got way too many starts last year, helping sink the team in the process, resulting in meaningless baseball in September and a delayed discovery of Bailey Ober. In 2019, Martin Perez was inconsistent to put it kindly and remained in the rotation all year at the expense of Randy Dobnak getting those starts. Come playoff time, they decide that Martin Perez was indeed not the guy and they hand the ball to Randy Dobnak in October but not in August. In 2018... Oh boy 2018. The year we lost Nick Anderson for Matt Belisle. Yeah... I've jumped off the cause and effect cliff but I directly tie the loss of Nick Anderson in the off season to Matt Belisle. The team was out of contention. Nick Anderson was striking out two batters an inning in Rochester, he was an upcoming 40 man roster decision and THEY SIGNED BELISLE to help them in a lost season keeping Anderson in Rochester. Not being allowed to strike out two batters an inning in Minnesota led to a low level trade to Miami where he struck out two batters an inning and our search for bullpen talent continues with a new crafty vet after crafty vet, year after year. Also, the crafty Logan Morrison being beyond terrible in 2018 and getting his name in the lineup card every day while they waited for him not to be terrible.... which never happened. I'm pro mix... it just hasn't been mixed. I don't have a problem with the signing of Morrison or Happ, I have a problem with the doubling down on Logan Morrison after it becomes obvious that the signing was a mistake. We are not going to sign Garrit Cole. All of us should realize that by now. We will have to grow our own Garrit Cole. Happ and Shoemaker types have for decades blocked the sunlight.

The choice is simple. A. Commit to the young starters - Right now - All of them. B. Fill up the rotation with Odorizzi, Bundy, Happ, Shoemaker, Pineda types forever more.

I don't know if the development issue has been rectified for the future but looking back over the last decade... The answer to the question is without a doubt... Yes... Absolutely Yes that the Twins have (at least had) a development problem. Let's see what the future brings. I know this article is specific to the SS position but this isn't just a SS thing... the Twins have had a development problem period. SS's, OF, SP, RP, you name it. Yeah, we've produced some major league players that we can all point to... But... that's simple to do. All teams produce major league ball players by simply putting a major league uniform on them and writing their name in the lineup. To get a grasp on the depth of this development dry spell over the past decade (that I pray the Twins are getting out of) you just need to look at what the other teams are willing to pay for our developed players. The Twins have failed to increase the value of their players. No farm raised Twin has hit free agency in position to haul in a mega contract... No Manny Machado's, No Garrit Cole's, No Corey Seager's, Not even an Eric Hosmer type mega contract value. This is a failure to increase the value of their players which is a direct reflection on organizational development. Want to start a rebuild? they've had nothing of significance produced to trade to other teams for prospects in order to hasten that rebuild... No farm raised Twin has interested the other teams enough to part with their top tier prospects over the past decade... at least until Berrios came along. Where are the home grown Minnesota Twins superstars? Haven't see one since Joe Mauer. Due to sub-par years the draft position has been good but yet... where are the superstars? It could be argued that Byron Buxton is a superstar but he just signed a deal for 7 years at 100 Million. That isn't superstar money and in the end, it expresses his value. Name a farm raised Twin that a typical fantasy baseball player would have taken in the first two rounds in a 12 team league. I can't think of any. Our development has frankly sucked... period. I'm hoping that it is getting better.

Typical behavior from big boys sitting across from each other at the big boy table, fighting over what us little guys provide them. Ultimately... both teams are using us little guys as leverage, fighting over what we provide them (Money). The little guys who provide the revenue will care if the season doesn't start on time so you better cave with whatever proposal before it's too late. Whatever proposal they agree with, will not improve our experience... just simply provide the same experience we had before. The threat of our not having an experience at all are the bullets they are both using in their guns. Personally, I'd appreciate it if they would stop using me as a gun against each other and I think it would be wonderful if the whole bunch of us little guys simply stopped falling prey to the court of public opinion marketing and just stopped picking sides like it matters, stopped joining a team like we are in the room privy to the detail, but... we all know there is no chance of that happening. They suck us in and we willing allow ourselves to be sucked in. Is Pawndom a word? It should be... we are willing pawns in the kingdom every time we raise our pom poms for one side or the other. Passionately picking sides in this sort of thing is like passionately choosing a broken left leg or a broken right leg.

Fantastic Post. WIth a Dave Mason reference thrown in perfectly. Feelin Alright.

A minor league signing? No one gets away with that on social media. Someone has to get hurt, someone has to pay for even attempting such things. Social media eggs are thrown. Awful things are typed.

If what is reported is close to accurate... Nothing will have changed other than a possible financial uptick for the players. Which as you point out... can easily be rendered pointless soon after the ink is dry if the clubs want to. If this is the result... It will be a waste of an off-season in my mind.

If the reports are correct... Adjustments to structure such as service time, tanking, etc are no longer part of the discussion leaving compensation as almost the entire focus of the current disagreement. I'm shocked, shocked that all this drama is simply boiling down to money.

Regardless, if the elevator goes up or down. He has two options left. The Team doesn't have to ride with him down.

I'm under the impression that these days, opinions are more likely to harden than change and I include myself when I say that. Personally, like most people, I like it when the research that I do ends up supporting the conclusion that I had already drawn before I started researching. ? Those walls just don't come down no matter how hard you put a shoulder into it. The shoulder usually gives out first. ?

The definition of success is quite variable from individual to individual. It's a question that must be asked in order to understand the individual parameters. TwinsDR2021 provided his definition and I appreciate that for understanding of his goal. Personally, I feel his bar is way too high because only a couple of teams would clear it. My personal bar is also high in my opinion but quite lower in comparison. If the Twins could get to the point where they are playing games that matter in September every year... I'd be satisfied and I wouldn't be asking for much more (Other than a World Series title every once in awhile because I like parades). If I'm watching a game on September 28th and winning the game is edge of the seat extremely important for playoff implications or of course the Twins have already clinched... I'm satisfied. Then let's see how the ball bounces in the small sample size that is the playoffs. You and I agree that you must get in the first door (Making the Playoffs) first and currently 10 out of 30 teams (that are all trying) make it each year. There are different sources that are all important when it comes to the players that make up a competitive roster. Free Agency can't be ignored, trades are vital, the farm system is critical. None of these avenues should be ignored but in my opinion, there is only one thing that will clearly help a front office reach the playoffs consistently. That is development. You have to increase value of the players who dot your roster no matter how they are acquired. Trades for example. Development is still critical in every trade you make and perhaps the most important thing. It seems to me that trades these days could almost be automated (I said almost). Each player has a value that all 30 teams basically agree with. Trading teams will match up assessed value and a deal is struck and we as fans get to sit back and judge subjectively, however, while we are judging, there is really nothing to judge, the value was most likely equal when the trade occured and probably considered equal by all 30 teams using the same value system. If players were cars you could basically stick a monroney sticker on them. This player has 80,000 miles, AWD, Adaptive Cruise Control, Heated Steering Wheel and is priced at $37,890. The only way a team can ensure that they win the majority of trades that they make is by developing the player or players acquired and therefore increasing the value of who was acquired beyond the equal value that the trade originated at. If they can't increase the value of the acquisitions, they will be the loser in the deal when history and hindsight come a calling. The Dodgers have money but they got the increasing the value of their players thing down so they could do it without the money in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Money is extremely helpful but the biggest gift that money provides is the ability to absorb the David Price and Jacoby Ellsbury contracts and not be crippled by the bad money draining the good money pool.

I'm just trying to follow along at home but I'm finding the potential definitions blurry. With all respect I have to ask for clarity. What qualifies as "Sustained Playoff Success" and which teams qualify for that designation?

For X-mas a friend of mine gave me a cheap bottle of vodka. I really don't care for Vodka much but with the right ingredients I do enjoy a Bloody Mary. And... It turns out that cheap vodka is also a decent stain remover. The primary purpose of Vodka is to get you drunk as you cross the Ukraine border but it can serve a broader purpose. ?