Riverbrian

I agree that this would be a wonderful thing to do. It might get you specifically on his side along with some others. But... it won't change it. Only time will heal the wound.

Sincerity won't get him or any of them out of the doghouse either. In the words of Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Wrong can't be undone". "Blue on Black... Tears on a river" "Push on a shove... It don't mean much" "Whisper on a scream.. Doesn't mean a thing" "Don't bring you back... Blue on Black" I love this song and I think rock songwriters are the greatest philosophers in the world. The song basically says it doesn't matter if you are sorry or really really sorry. It's just blue on black. Just shades, degrees that won't make up for the original wrong either way. In the end... It's up to everyone else to either dwell on it or not. Marwin broke it and he just can't fix it... We have to fix it by just moving on to the next object of our derision. The guy coming out of prison may be really really sorry, but he won't get a job unless someone chooses not to dwell on whatever he did and give him a job. In the world of social media. The world will choose to dwell on it in an echo chamber for a period of time, until eventually, we lose our focus on it. There is nothing that he can say... he's going to wear it for awhile.

The intent of grudges going forward have been announced by others in this and other threads.

Agreed And the actions of an entire team will always be worse than the action of a single person. "perhaps"?

I threw a “perhaps” in there because the lines get real blurry when trying to rank bad things. Is it worse to be trampled by a herd of water buffalo or get stuck in an elevator with an angry badger or is it worse to live in Nebraska? For the record... It has never been proven that Pete Rose bet against his team. The Dowd report never claimed he did. No bookie is going to take that bet BTW. It would be like me saying “Hey Chief... I’ll Bet you that I will spill this water all over the floor”. And you say “I’ll give you 4-1 odds.” And then I pour the water on the floor and you say “Ok you win this time... let’s go double or nothing.... here’s another glass of water”. I was pretty young during the Black Sox Scandal so the historical significance is lost on me and I’m not the type to hold a grudge.

This is perhaps the biggest scandal in baseball history. I won't minimize the damage done by it. The damage done is impossibly to quantify because there is depth way below the surface of an ill-gotten world series title. However tomorrow is a new day and one thing I have learned is this: Holding grudges is a terrible way to go through life. If you want to hold a grudge, that is your choice but you will be the one who walks around with it. If that bitter feeling you hold inside, keeps you warm and happy. I'll never understand you. Baseball needs to move forward, grudges are just going to slow the moving forward part.

I don't think it can be avoided. It's more my fault than the Red Sox. I follow Rosenthal, Passan and Heyman because I can't wait a damn minute. So, I take full responsibility but with that said. The Red Sox sure screwed it up.

And the Rays only have 3 starters. Here's the deal... I'm not the type to drown in subjective opinions. I won't agree or disagree with your opinion. Personally, I'm not counting on anybody's pitching until the pitching can be counted. I'll know more as the season progresses. I just happened to disagree with your original methodology.

You can still change your mind. It's not too late.

The 5 worst records in the AL: Tigers Orioles Royals Blue Jays Mariners Against those 5 teams: Twins were 43-15 Yankees were 42-16 If you insist on substituting the Blue Jays and Mariners for the White Sox to make your point. OK... The Yankees were 3-4 against the White Sox, which doesn't speak well for the Yankees, and it should also be pointed out that the Yankees went 13-13 against the WEAK WEAK AL Central. However, this isn't your point. Your point is that you believe the Twins have the worst rotation out of Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Twins, Indians, Astros, A's and Rangers. You could be right but you are going to have to try something else in order to slide it past us.

If Graterol pitches well... He will be fine. He will control his fate through performance. The front offices around the league will determine his value ultimately and if he pitches well he will be fine. However, of course it took a toll on the kid. He's famous now. Pulled out of the darkness and branded fragile for all to see. The press and fan base will play the fragile card every time he hits the DL. Yes, players need to learn to ignore this stuff because it's always out there but this turns the amp up to 11. The louder the amp, the harder it is to not hear it. If he pitches well... he will be fine. But, I won't minimize the damage done.

I agree with you 98%. I'm OK with giving a reclamation project a chance but they have to EARN IT once you give it. You might run across an Anibel Sanchez along the way but Anibel Sanchez has to perform like Anibel Sanchez performed. When you purposely choose a reclamation project who is not getting the job done over a less expensive option you just commit yourself to another reclamation project the following year. Perez begat Bailey Bailey begat whoever it will be next year. Finding someone off the farm stops the cycle and saves you money in the process. It's such an easy fix... If a pitcher is performing... let them continue. If a pitcher is not performing... try someone else.

That is the part that sums it up for me. It makes me question either the reports or question the competency of the current Red Sox power structure. I am inclined to question the competency of the current Red Sox power structure at this moment.

I was just stating in my own way that "it's too late anyway". This can happen in 5 minutes or 2 years. The Red Sox have scarred this kid. It can happen soon as reported but we still got some melted ice cream here. I no longer want the kid subjected to the Boston Media and Fans.

It's Sunday This trade was announced Tuesday Night. I have joined Tony Clark, Scott Boras and Arte Moreno in the "this is ridiculous" chorus. The tragedy is a 21 year old pitcher by the name of Brusdar Graterol who has been type cast. If he goes to the Red Sox, he walks in the door with a label. If he goes to the Dodgers, he walks in the door with a label. If he stays with the Twins, he will wear the label. He won't be allowed simple injuries like everyone else without being accused of fragility by outsiders. He is famous for it now. I follow Heyman, Rosenthal and Passan and this makes me guilty. This trade should not have been announced before the I's and T's were dotted and crossed. Whatever, the results of this soon to be announced solution, it'll be shame.

I'm not a leverage expert but I agree with you. Boston is in the most difficult position. The Owner declares that they will be under the luxury tax. After a winter of speculation of a possible Mookie Betts trade... they go ahead and announce to their fan base that they have indeed traded Mookie Betts. The last thing the Red Sox want to do is repeat this process. We also need to factor in, the Dodgers might be the only team that could take on both Betts and Price, which limits the options that they can pivot to. IMO... That's enormous pressure on the Red Sox to complete this deal. Yet... they were the team to pump the breaks. I don't believe anyone has an upper hand.

I agree. Betts will be a Dodger when this is all said and done. This trade is really all about the Dodgers and Red Sox. However... I'm not sure why the Dodgers will pay the difference. If there is an issue with the Twins contribution to the thing. The Twins would have to be the team that makes up the difference so balance is restored. If the Dodgers make up the difference... the Twins would likely be out. The Red Sox get Maeda or the Dodgers keep Maeda and provide the prospect equivalent to the Red Sox or they replace the Twins with a different third team to satisfy the Red Sox. The Dodgers are not going to let the Twins stand in the way. This is all about Betts. The Dodgers want him, he's been announced to the fan base. The Red Sox won't want to go through the trade speculation process again. The optimism expressed that this won't sideline the deal is probably referring to the main piece Mookie Betts. The Dodgers and Red Sox probably have a contingency plan worked out and that contingency could have the potential to uninvite the Twins to the party. Purely Guesses from me... of course.

I'm not thinking too much about the Pohlad's. I've long ago come to the conclusion that the Twins are going to spend approximately what their revenue peers are spending, might fluctuate a little higher in the good times but I'm not waiting for the day we bust through the clouds. Once I came to that conclusion... I haven't thought about the Pohlad's much at all. Maeda is an above average starting pitcher at a position where just average is expensive to get. He doesn't blow me out of the water but I'm not putting him along side the pitcher's who do blow me out of the water. However... he can help us win games and the cost per on that contract does blow me out of the water. If Maeda was a free agent this year... I have no idea what he would get as a free agent. I'd imagine that his AAV would be over 10 million. If Maeda didn't sign that 8 year deal 4 years ago... He would be reaching his 2nd year of Arb and I again assume that he'd be making over 10 million in arbitration and more the year after that. I'll let others who are better at these guesses make those guesses on his value. Whatever number they come up with it's going to be considerably more than what we are paying. We get that savings for 4 years. That is incredible value/savings and that value/savings allows the team to spend the money elsewhere, wherever it's needed. Do I think the Pohlad's will pocket the savings of this wonderful contract? I have no idea but I look at the Donaldson signing as an indication that the front office will spend what they can in consideration of a budget that we should all know that they operate under, whatever that budget may be. None of us should expect that the Twins will be tickling the CBT or crossing over. We all know that. However, regardless if the club pockets the savings or if they re-invest those savings... the option to re-invest something (could be significant) is a reality because of this contract, the option is preserved. Even if they don't... having the option is better than the flip side. The flip side is that If you take away the money that could be re-invested, because they have to spend full value just to get a pitcher of Maeda's above average caliber, the money to re-invest is now gone, the option is gone, it's all gone because it has already been invested. This trade was all about value. I'm excited that the front office sees it.

I have no idea but if my mind tries to follow the string... this would be my guess. The Dodgers didn't want to part with prospects and the Red Sox didn't want to add any salary. They were probably at an impasse over this conflict so a third team (Twins) and 4th team (Angels) would be needed to break the impasse. The Twins provide the prospect that satisfies the Red Sox and the Angels take the salary that satisfies the Dodgers. The catalyst behind all of this. The Dodgers really wanted Betts and the Red Sox really wanted to get something for Betts before he leaves as a free agent while getting under the luxury tax this year. The Twins want to add a pitcher for this year and next economically. The Angels... they just want to keep adding payroll cost until they are forced to tear it down.

The difference is easy to explain. They are not the same people flipping back and forth. To my knowledge, the Twinsdaily forum has never had a unified position on any topic.

I hate to break it to the Twinsdaily faithful. We just acquired a major league talent for the next 4 years for 3 million a year plus incentives. A contract like that isn't going to be cheap to acquire and a contract like that will not hamstring future payroll so we can increase the quality of future adds. It is Maeda plus because the contract allows for a plus. I'll let all those inclined slap some arbitrary number on him... Is he a #2 or #3 or #4. Doesn't matter... He is above average and we got him for 4 years on a contract that allows us to improve other spots on the roster. And... almost just as important... We just cut our starting pitching shopping list for next year by 20%. On paper... we only need to find 2 next year.

I wouldn't say "other than emergencies" but yeah... Action's speak louder than words. You can't turn around and hand them jobs out of spring training with a team that is favored for the playoffs after choosing Martin Perez over them last year with a team heading for the playoffs. The thing that needs to be watched now is: How do they handle Bailey or Chacin should they not succeed? Berrios, Odorizzi and Maeda will get rope... So will Pineda when he hits the scene. Hill is a long wait, so he really can't be calculated yet. By the time Hill comes back, we will have information on everybody else. Health, Performance so Hill is basically our July trade acquisition done in advance. There will be injuries, dead arm, common colds to the members of the rotation so the key question is: How do they handle Bailey or Chacin if they don't succeed.

Too late. I've already mailed the absolutely nothing. I admit that I don't know your address so I had to guess. When you consider all the possible addresses in the world... The odds of you getting absolutely nothing is astronomical.

I'm going with San Francisco. I am so confident in that prediction that I am betting absolutely nothing on the game.