Riverbrian

I agree with you that the data is not sufficient. I don't declare Jake Cave anything at this point. I only state that he has been capable for 500 AB's and believe he should be allowed to keep going. I do disagree with the level of trust you place in the staff to make pre-determinations and that isn't a slam or statement against our front office. I assume and believe with all my heart that they are better at it than you and I and am glad they are making the calls. But Logan Morrison, Martin Perez and Nick Anderson are enough to demonstrate that they can and do get it wrong. I believe every GM can and does get it wrong. There is one way to avoid those type of mistakes. Let the players determine the course of action through performance. I'm opposed to hard lines drawn on very small margins or insufficient data. Hard lines or predetermined assessments gaurentees a failed result. That's how Nick Anderson happened and it's how Logan Morrison happened. If I was Jake Cave... I'd be pissed if I wasn't given an honest chance to control my fate. I wouldn't want anyone telling me that I can't be as good as anyone and subsequently preventing me from proving you wrong especially if I have been playing as decently as anyone so far. If you spread the AB's across the roster. No one has to give up significant playing time to feed the entire roster. The players who shouldn't get playing time are the ones who are not playing well. Cave doesn't belong in that group based on his performance thus far. 13 bingo balls instead of 9 bingo balls with 4 blank balls and you have increased your output by 25% and a better chance at a filled out bingo card.

Too soon to use these positive numbers as a negative. He had no choice but to swing the bat when he was given the chance to swing the bat. However... if you want to point out that he faced inferior pitching during his best stretch. Ok... we can do that but I will point out that everyone else faced the same pitching during this time frame and his OPS was better than everyone not named Cruz or Garver. Why does Cave get a negative check mark for hitting sub par pitching really well while Kepler, Arraez, Polanco, Schoop, Rosario, Marwin and Cron dont get a negative check mark for not hitting that same pitching as decently as Cave did?

That's not two halves. That's 112 AB's over 115 games. And That's 116 AB's over 47 games. You can call that streaky. I call it opportunity. Personally... I'd be hesitant to label anyone with 500 AB's as streaky or anything for that matter.

There are very few things sadder than predetermined fate.

Under no circumstances do I want my front office or manager looking Jake Cave in the eye and telling him: We didn't give you AB's against tougher pitching last year so I hope you understand that we intend use that information against you going forward. Under no circumstances do I want my front office or manager so cocky and confident that the conclusions they draw prior to actual performance can't be altered or adjusted or wrong. Under no circumstances do I want my front office or manager to forget that their prior conclusions led to Logan Morrison, Martin Perez and Nick Anderson. Under no circumstances do I want increased value to be denied based on thin or secondary statistical margins. And under no circumstances do I want a player on the roster that has no chance of increasing value for tomorrow or helping the team win today.

You would have been selling low in an attempt to sell high. You can only sell high with Jake Cave if his sample size increases to establish value. Of course once his sample increases, those numbers you quote may look different with more stable data. How do you stabilize the data... give him starts against tougher pitchers I guess.

Lack of Analysis? Of course they are entirely different entities but easily lumped together and placed into the same (We took no steps to prepare for this) file. https://www.mlb.com/news/kyle-gibson-byron-buxton-injury-updates The Twins were aware that Kyle was not 100% at any point during the season since getting E. Coli during the WINTER and according to the article, the UC diagnosis may have been mid-July. Neither the Twins or anybody else can claim the surprise card here. And of course... Berrios, Odorizzi and Pineda were candidates for injury at any time. Because throughout baseball history... all 5 starters in any 5 man rotation have all remained healthy for an entire year... maybe zero times. What Doc is saying: Perez remained in the rotation with a 6 plus ERA over an extended time frame and Gibson remained in the rotation at less than 100% since winter advancing to measurably weak around Mid-July, waking multiple times a night with a UC diagnosis in hand. The team just rides it out, hoping it would be all right before the playoffs arrive. A starter is not acquired at the trade deadline nor is anyone from the farm called up. Doc is joining me and others in prayer. Please don't let Bailey be Perez (Terrible) or Gibson (Not Healthy) and stay in the rotation regardless of these things.

I like it I'd vote Yes

I agree that this would be a wonderful thing to do. It might get you specifically on his side along with some others. But... it won't change it. Only time will heal the wound.

Sincerity won't get him or any of them out of the doghouse either. In the words of Kenny Wayne Shepherd "Wrong can't be undone". "Blue on Black... Tears on a river" "Push on a shove... It don't mean much" "Whisper on a scream.. Doesn't mean a thing" "Don't bring you back... Blue on Black" I love this song and I think rock songwriters are the greatest philosophers in the world. The song basically says it doesn't matter if you are sorry or really really sorry. It's just blue on black. Just shades, degrees that won't make up for the original wrong either way. In the end... It's up to everyone else to either dwell on it or not. Marwin broke it and he just can't fix it... We have to fix it by just moving on to the next object of our derision. The guy coming out of prison may be really really sorry, but he won't get a job unless someone chooses not to dwell on whatever he did and give him a job. In the world of social media. The world will choose to dwell on it in an echo chamber for a period of time, until eventually, we lose our focus on it. There is nothing that he can say... he's going to wear it for awhile.

The intent of grudges going forward have been announced by others in this and other threads.

Agreed And the actions of an entire team will always be worse than the action of a single person. "perhaps"?

I threw a “perhaps” in there because the lines get real blurry when trying to rank bad things. Is it worse to be trampled by a herd of water buffalo or get stuck in an elevator with an angry badger or is it worse to live in Nebraska? For the record... It has never been proven that Pete Rose bet against his team. The Dowd report never claimed he did. No bookie is going to take that bet BTW. It would be like me saying “Hey Chief... I’ll Bet you that I will spill this water all over the floor”. And you say “I’ll give you 4-1 odds.” And then I pour the water on the floor and you say “Ok you win this time... let’s go double or nothing.... here’s another glass of water”. I was pretty young during the Black Sox Scandal so the historical significance is lost on me and I’m not the type to hold a grudge.

This is perhaps the biggest scandal in baseball history. I won't minimize the damage done by it. The damage done is impossibly to quantify because there is depth way below the surface of an ill-gotten world series title. However tomorrow is a new day and one thing I have learned is this: Holding grudges is a terrible way to go through life. If you want to hold a grudge, that is your choice but you will be the one who walks around with it. If that bitter feeling you hold inside, keeps you warm and happy. I'll never understand you. Baseball needs to move forward, grudges are just going to slow the moving forward part.

I don't think it can be avoided. It's more my fault than the Red Sox. I follow Rosenthal, Passan and Heyman because I can't wait a damn minute. So, I take full responsibility but with that said. The Red Sox sure screwed it up.

And the Rays only have 3 starters. Here's the deal... I'm not the type to drown in subjective opinions. I won't agree or disagree with your opinion. Personally, I'm not counting on anybody's pitching until the pitching can be counted. I'll know more as the season progresses. I just happened to disagree with your original methodology.

You can still change your mind. It's not too late.

The 5 worst records in the AL: Tigers Orioles Royals Blue Jays Mariners Against those 5 teams: Twins were 43-15 Yankees were 42-16 If you insist on substituting the Blue Jays and Mariners for the White Sox to make your point. OK... The Yankees were 3-4 against the White Sox, which doesn't speak well for the Yankees, and it should also be pointed out that the Yankees went 13-13 against the WEAK WEAK AL Central. However, this isn't your point. Your point is that you believe the Twins have the worst rotation out of Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Twins, Indians, Astros, A's and Rangers. You could be right but you are going to have to try something else in order to slide it past us.

If Graterol pitches well... He will be fine. He will control his fate through performance. The front offices around the league will determine his value ultimately and if he pitches well he will be fine. However, of course it took a toll on the kid. He's famous now. Pulled out of the darkness and branded fragile for all to see. The press and fan base will play the fragile card every time he hits the DL. Yes, players need to learn to ignore this stuff because it's always out there but this turns the amp up to 11. The louder the amp, the harder it is to not hear it. If he pitches well... he will be fine. But, I won't minimize the damage done.

I agree with you 98%. I'm OK with giving a reclamation project a chance but they have to EARN IT once you give it. You might run across an Anibel Sanchez along the way but Anibel Sanchez has to perform like Anibel Sanchez performed. When you purposely choose a reclamation project who is not getting the job done over a less expensive option you just commit yourself to another reclamation project the following year. Perez begat Bailey Bailey begat whoever it will be next year. Finding someone off the farm stops the cycle and saves you money in the process. It's such an easy fix... If a pitcher is performing... let them continue. If a pitcher is not performing... try someone else.

That is the part that sums it up for me. It makes me question either the reports or question the competency of the current Red Sox power structure. I am inclined to question the competency of the current Red Sox power structure at this moment.

I was just stating in my own way that "it's too late anyway". This can happen in 5 minutes or 2 years. The Red Sox have scarred this kid. It can happen soon as reported but we still got some melted ice cream here. I no longer want the kid subjected to the Boston Media and Fans.

It's Sunday This trade was announced Tuesday Night. I have joined Tony Clark, Scott Boras and Arte Moreno in the "this is ridiculous" chorus. The tragedy is a 21 year old pitcher by the name of Brusdar Graterol who has been type cast. If he goes to the Red Sox, he walks in the door with a label. If he goes to the Dodgers, he walks in the door with a label. If he stays with the Twins, he will wear the label. He won't be allowed simple injuries like everyone else without being accused of fragility by outsiders. He is famous for it now. I follow Heyman, Rosenthal and Passan and this makes me guilty. This trade should not have been announced before the I's and T's were dotted and crossed. Whatever, the results of this soon to be announced solution, it'll be shame.

I'm not a leverage expert but I agree with you. Boston is in the most difficult position. The Owner declares that they will be under the luxury tax. After a winter of speculation of a possible Mookie Betts trade... they go ahead and announce to their fan base that they have indeed traded Mookie Betts. The last thing the Red Sox want to do is repeat this process. We also need to factor in, the Dodgers might be the only team that could take on both Betts and Price, which limits the options that they can pivot to. IMO... That's enormous pressure on the Red Sox to complete this deal. Yet... they were the team to pump the breaks. I don't believe anyone has an upper hand.