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    Who Do You Trust To Start a Playoff Game?


    Nick Nelson

    Isn't that really the defining question of this offseason? How many starters do the Twins currently have who meet this qualification, and how many more can they find?

    Image courtesy of Jim Rassol, Bruce Kluckhohn, Jesse Johnson - USA TODAY Sports

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    Despite having one of the best rotations in franchise history this past year, the Twins ended up with only two pitchers whom they genuinely trusted to start a playoff game: Pablo López and Sonny Gray.

    The All-Star pairing made four starts in the playoffs–one apiece in both the ALWC and the ALDS–and were given the chance to go fairly deep in those games. Meanwhile, significantly less confidence was shown toward Bailey Ober, Joe Ryan and Kenta Maeda

    Ober pitched Game 1 of the ALDS against Houston and was pulled after three innings, at 43 pitches. He gave up three runs on a pair of homers. Ryan started an elimination Game 4, and was removed after just two innings and 26 pitches. Maeda was trusted seemingly least of all, demoted to a low-leverage bullpen role in which he, too, struggled (4 IP, 3 ER).

    The Twins are looking ahead to a season in which they'll be favored to win the division, and aiming to take the next step in the playoffs. A rotation capable of meeting that challenge is crucial. Ultimately, the staff wasn't quite there this year, given the usage and the results beyond López and the now-departed Gray.

    As we ponder the outlook for 2024 and what the front office is building from, let's assess the trust level for each of the five starters currently slotted into next year's rotation. For each, I'll call out a few things the pitcher could do next season to improve that level of trust before the postseason rolls around.

    Pablo López
    Trust Level: 9/10
    He pitched like an ace for much of the season and definitely looked the part in the playoffs, holding the Blue Jays and Astros to one run over 12 innings in his two starts--both of them wins. Not sure what more you could ask for, other than cutting out the occasional clunker that inflated his regular-season ERA a bit.

    What can he do to be a more trusted playoff option?
    Just stay the course. If López pitches exactly the same way in 2024 as he did in 2023, he's a viable Game 1 playoff starter, and that's a great place to start. From here, however, things get murkier.

    Bailey Ober
    Trust Level: 6/10
    Over the course of the season, Ober was quietly one of the most effective starters in the majors, but he wore down late in the year under the burden of a career-high workload. The Twins sent him down in late August, after he posted a 6.75 ERA over a six-start stretch. He returned a few weeks later and then made the one playoff start, but Ober never looked quite the same after the All-Star break.

    What can he do to be a more trusted playoff option?
    Stay strong and durable throughout the marathon. The version of Ober we saw in the first half, wherein he held opponents to a .207/.259/.345 slash line with a 2.61 ERA in 14 starts, is a clear-cut playoff starter. He just needs to maintain that form into September and October. After going from 70 innings pitched in 2022 to 170 in 2023, he'll be much more equipped for the task next year.

    Joe Ryan
    Trust Level: 5/10
    Much like Ober, Ryan experienced a steep drop-off after a strong start in 2023, posting a 2.98 ERA in his first 15 starts and a 6.62 ERA in the last 14. The team's shattered confidence in him was made clear by his usage in the playoffs, where Ryan made one "start" and was essentially used as an opener. He threw fewer pitches (26) than any other Twin who appeared in the postseason.

    What can he do to be a more trusted playoff option?
    Much like Ober, Ryan is a quality playoff option if he's pitching the way he did in the first half. But he needs to prove he can carry that form into the end of the season. He also experienced a dropoff in his solid rookie season, when his 2.89 ERA through the first 15 starts gave way to 4.36 in the final 12 starts. Hopefully the righthander learned a lesson from tanking his promising sophomore campaign by hiding an injury.

    Chris Paddack
    Trust Level: 3/10
    The Twins seem convinced that Paddack can step in as a No. 2 or 3 starter next year, and their faith might be well-founded. He returned with a bang in late 2023. The 27-year-old looked excellent in September and October, throwing fire out of the bullpen. Even if he does channel this success back into a starting role, the problem is that it's tough to envision Paddack remaining effective into October. He's thrown 27 combined innings over the past two years. 

    What can he do to be a more trusted playoff option?
    In addition to showing he can recapture the front-line starter profile of his rookie year in 2019 (140 IP, 3.33 ERA), Paddack needs to find a way to remain strong and effective through the finish line. As Ober exemplifies, even very good pitchers are bound to run out of gas when their bodies aren't conditioned for the rigors of six months and almost 200 innings. The Twins might need to get creative with his handling if they want Paddack to be a factor in their playoff rotation.

    Louie Varland
    Trust Level: 3/10
    Unlike Paddack, Varland doesn't pose an obvious durability concern. He's been very healthy and dependable. The issue here is performance, and whether the righty can elevate to a level where he'd be in line for a playoff start. Right now, his future as a postseason difference-maker appears to be out of the bullpen, but he'd obviously be a much bigger asset if he could tap into some of that relief dominance in a starting role.

    What can he do to be a more trusted playoff option?
    Varland has shown signs of being a good MLB starter at times, and one who can handle the pressure of, say, making his major-league debut in Yankee Stadium. With nearly 100 MLB innings under his belt, he's ahead of the game when it comes to poise and stamina, He just needs to advance his stuff to a level where it's going to play against elite lineups multiple times on the biggest stage. If Varland can effectively incorporate the cutter that contributed to his bullpen breakthrough into his starting mix, that could be an interesting development. 

    What Do the Twins Need?
    Obviously, it will be helpful if any of the four non-López starters elevate their trust level, but regardless, it seems clear that the Twins need to add at least one outside starter this offseason who checks in with a trust level of a least 8/10 (which is around where I'd have pegged Gray).

    That's the main lens through which I'll be looking at any offseason additions to the starting corps. It's less about upgrading the rotation, and more about making upgrades to the playoff rotation–which is why adding anything less than a Maeda-caliber starter would be unproductive.

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    2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    I don't know. If you pair Polanco with a prospect or two (say, David Festa and someone else) then the difference is only adding 4 million right?

    I'd imagine another of Farmer or Kepler will be traded, which will also lower the payroll. 

    I don't see Hoskins getting 20 million per year, more like 14-16 in 2024.

    Anyway, that's not CRAZY, and certainly would fall in line with what we are all guessing would be the drop in their payroll right?

    The issue with getting Hoskins is the 2025 payroll.  There are big raises coming and some of them are already known and built in already.  

    4 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    I put a healthy Ryan over Ober. But this is a fantastic way to look at it

    The point that Ober went from 70 to 170 innings pitched is well taken. I won't trust Ryan as a number two starter until he gets another quality pitch so he can drop his fast ball usage to something under 50 percent - preferably increased command of the sweeper. That will keep more of his pitches from landing in the left and right field seats.

    After reading this article it makes me think the Twins should wait until the trade deadLine to get that starter. The moves Milwaukee is making I doubt they sell Burnes and go for it.  Now at the trade deadline if they are out of it….

    on Paddack, I wonder if 2 or 3 planned 10-15 day DL stints to rest is an allowable DL stint by the league?  The Twins should do something like this more than once to help limit his workload and keep him fresh for the playoff run.

    I'm still a big believer in Joe Ryan; his biggest hiccup this season was trying to play through an injury and hiding it from the training staff. That's a mistake, but it comes from a good place. I wouldn't have a problem with him starting a playoff game, and I think his short stint in the playoff game had more to do with it being an elimination game where there was no reason not to empty out all the resources than the team losing faith in him.

    Ober is a quality starter as well; no fear there either, though it would help if the team doesn't think he needs a break to keep him going through the season.

    (Obviously, there's no question on Pablo Lopez!)

    Paddack is a biggest question mark to me than either Ober or Ryan: we don't know how he'll transition back to starting, and we don't know if he's got a 3rd pitch to keep people from keying on his fastball or sitting on the change.

    39 minutes ago, Brandon said:

    The issue with getting Hoskins is the 2025 payroll.  There are big raises coming and some of them are already known and built in already.  

    I’d imagine Hoskins gets a 1 year deal, or a 1 year deal with an option. Things like that work itself out

    26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

    After reading this article it makes me think the Twins should wait until the trade deadLine to get that starter. The moves Milwaukee is making I doubt they sell Burnes and go for it.  Now at the trade deadline if they are out of it….

    on Paddack, I wonder if 2 or 3 planned 10-15 day DL stints to rest is an allowable DL stint by the league?  The Twins should do something like this more than once to help limit his workload and keep him fresh for the playoff run.

    Midseason trades are done out of desperation though, while offseason trades are done out of optimism.

    Comparing this front office's success in trades during these time frames, it seems clear that they need to do this in the offseason.

    38 minutes ago, arby58 said:

    The point that Ober went from 70 to 170 innings pitched is well taken. I won't trust Ryan as a number two starter until he gets another quality pitch so he can drop his fast ball usage to something under 50 percent - preferably increased command of the sweeper. That will keep more of his pitches from landing in the left and right field seats.

    When healthy, through the end of June, Ryan was pitching every bit as well as Lopez or Gray. His fastball/splitter combo is pretty elite. 

    Corbin Burns isn't realistic. Devin Williams is however and a strong bullpen like that can carry a team a long ways!

    None of these "Pundits " seem to address the gaping hole in the Twins offense -  LF. Lourdes Gurriel is sitting there for 4yrs @60M for the taking.

    RH 5 tool power hitter who does NOT strikeout, hits for average,  power, speed and excellent defense. What are we waiting for? As much as we may love Kepler, he is completely redundant with Wallner. Trade both Kepler & Polanco and free up $20M to trade and sign or sign a #2 SP.

    We would still have money for Gurriel.

    CF & 1B we have covered with players in the system. LF is and has been a gaping hole since Rosario left. You could not draw up on paper a more affordable perfect match for the Twins offensive needs than Gurriel. I don't get it? 

    Discuss....

    33 minutes ago, KBJ1 said:

    Corbin Burns isn't realistic. Devin Williams is however and a strong bullpen like that can carry a team a long ways!

    None of these "Pundits " seem to address the gaping hole in the Twins offense -  LF. Lourdes Gurriel is sitting there for 4yrs @60M for the taking.

    RH 5 tool power hitter who does NOT strikeout, hits for average,  power, speed and excellent defense. What are we waiting for? As much as we may love Kepler, he is completely redundant with Wallner. Trade both Kepler & Polanco and free up $20M to trade and sign or sign a #2 SP.

    We would still have money for Gurriel.

    CF & 1B we have covered with players in the system. LF is and has been a gaping hole since Rosario left. You could not draw up on paper a more affordable perfect match for the Twins offensive needs than Gurriel. I don't get it? 

    Discuss....

    We had a top offense after the all star break last season is why you don't hear anyone talking about the offense.  While it can improve.  we do have some internal improvements we are pretty confident in happening like Correa bouncing back even if not to previous levels he is likely to bounce back better then last year.  Lewis for a full season is a big improvement as well.  Buxton is looking more like an OF per reports.  and full seasons from Wallner and Julien and more playing time for Jeffers.  This all adds up.  

    Vs we lost 2 starting pitchers and a reliever in FA and we need to replace at least one starter who can be trusted to start in the playoffs.

    Also I keep hearing Devin Williams from Milwaukee.  I hate to burst your bubble but it seems Milwaukee is going for it. at least by the moves they have made so far.  If they get a hitter you know they are going for it so they wont trade their elite pitchers maybe at the all star break if they fall out of contention.  but resigning Miley and extending their phenom who will be a rookie next year points to trying again.  I can see them resigning Carlos Santana for 1B and if they can get another hitter like Cron or someone to DH and another 100-110 OPS+ hitter They could have enough offense with their pitching to make a run.  

    They've got probably #2 starter, maybe #1, in Lopez. He has multiple above-average, to plus pitches with command of them. His ability to use his mix gives him ability to get through a lineup and make adjustments. He is the only one I would have true confidence in as a playoff starter right now.

    Between Ober and Ryan they are probably current 4th starters. Ryan I believe has the chance to turn himself into a 3rd starter. Ryan isn't all that different than Paddack prior to Paddack's 2nd TJ. Unique approach with the fastball. Paddack had the CH, but no real breaking ball. 

    Ober is more touch and feel. He is reliant on his command and feel for his CH. If he had a better ability to keep get the ball on the ground and avoid potential big innings you might be able to put a 3rd starter grade on him. Some people still might put a 3rd starter grade on him. However, if I am a GM I am looking to upgrade on someone like Ober at The Deadline if I believe I am a true contender. 

    Paddack is a complete unknown right now as a starter.

     

    3 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    When healthy, through the end of June, Ryan was pitching every bit as well as Lopez or Gray. His fastball/splitter combo is pretty elite. 

    Through the end of June, Ryan had a 3.44 ERA. while Gray's was 2.67. Ryan's was better than Lopez' 4.24, but not really in Gray's stratosphere. The real problem, which I alluded to, was keeping the ball in the ballpark. Through the end of June, he'd given up 13 HRs. Gray 3.

    I think the rankings are spot on. But would like to see someone acquired who could fit in behind Lopez into the #2 slot. If so Ober at #3 and Ryan at #4 could give us the best rotation in the game. The options are to open up the purse strings and go after Jordan Montgomery or trade for another guy like Lopez who you can extend. A couple names: Freddy Peralta, Edward Cabrera, Logan Gilbert, Andrew Abbott, etc

    34 minutes ago, arby58 said:

    Through the end of June, Ryan had a 3.44 ERA. while Gray's was 2.67. Ryan's was better than Lopez' 4.24, but not really in Gray's stratosphere. The real problem, which I alluded to, was keeping the ball in the ballpark. Through the end of June, he'd given up 13 HRs. Gray 3.

    Through June 2023

    Joe Ryan         96 2/3 innings, 79 hits, 105 k's, 15 walks, era of 3.44, FIP of 3.36

    Sonny Gray    87 2/3 innings, 80 hits, 89 k's, 33 walks, era of 2.67, FIP of 2.80.

    Pablo Lopez   102 innings, 87 hits, 126 k's, 30 walks, era of 4.24, FIP of 3.37

     

    Gray threw the least amount of innings of the 3, and his homerun rate (I'd argue) was unsustainable, but all 3 were legit at that point. Ryan injured himself and tried to pitch through it to poor results, but his FIP was every bit as good as Lopez at that time.

    Ryan's homerun rate is still closer to league average. Gray's homerun rate in 2023 is unsustainable/lucky ongoing, or at least that's what I'd argue.

     

    Ober and Ryan would have been fine starting a playoff game if it were in the first half / 75% point of the season, but they both seemed to run out of gas / momentum. Heck, Ryan got sent to the minors at the end of the year. At their best you could trust them, but they'd be doomed if they reach the playoffs with the same version of their 2023 September selves.

    Paddack is a wildcard, he could return to being a quality starter like he was in San Diego or he could have a rocky "first year off TJ" season. Varland might make it as a #5 starter but certainly isn't going to be starting in the playoffs. It's nice to have the option to slide him to the pen.

    So yeah, they need to add one starter who you could trust in the playoffs. Doesn't need to be an ace, Lopez can handle that.

    1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    Ryan's homerun rate is still closer to league average. Gray's homerun rate in 2023 is unsustainable/lucky ongoing, or at least that's what I'd argue

    Ryan gave up the seventh most home runs of any pitcher in MLB in 2023. I understand starting pitchers will dominate that stat, but I highly doubt he was close to league average.

    I've been a ML baseball for 50 years and a devout fan for 45. And I say again, there is NO WAY to predict the proverbial ACE in MLB with FEW exceptions.  Clemmons was one of those. Strasburg was one before his arm fell off. Randy Johnson was NOT one until later in his career. And I've seen so many Stiebs and Coles and Santanas over my time that it's almost impossible to predict who will become an ACE, or even a #1 starter.

    I do think Lopez is on the right treak. 

    I'm optimistic that Ryan and Ober are on that treat to be good to very good. Ryan's first 3 months were All Star caliber before his groin injury. Can he, fully healthy, replicate his 2023 1st half? I'm hopeful he can. I mean, forget ACE status, he looked really good. Ober was just as good. And he has been deliberately brought along slowly. And even when he was sent down late in 2023, it was just to help rest his arm. So he blew his debut in the playoffs. That doesn't dismiss his stuff or his career projection. 

    No question Paddack is a question mark. And despite his aggressive approach to the end of last year, what we're looking for is to retain the some of the velocity shown, PLUS the changes in his breaking ball he showed in 2022 and late this past year. 

    I trust in Lopez. And I have a good feeling about the 2024 rotation, even knowing there is going to be an X factor not know yet. There is a point in a pitchers career where stuff and experience comes together, late 20's, or early 30's, where it all comes together. Lopez is at that point. 

    I am not going to anoint Ryan or Ober with that "I got it" a this point. But I've seen enough to believe both might have the potential to reach that point. Or at least a #2 status in time, though I expect both to be a good #3 right now.

    But the FO is either going to grab a solid #3 type in FA...which I doubt. I think they are going to grab SP X via trade. 

    ABSOLUTELY. TODAY, RIGHT NOW, Lopez is the ONLY SP I want to begin a playoff series.  But we're also talking about today vs late September next year. It's not hard to see a healthy and stretched out Ryan and Ober ready to take another step. Not hard to see a healthy Paddack regulated the same way Ober was in 2021...4-5 IP at a time. [Just being conservative]. And there is always Varland and pitcher X.

    Not sure I trust ANYONE right NOW to start a playoff game other than Lopez. But it's also December. I like the odds of our  rotation,  right now, adding pitcher X, and our pen, hopfully adding one good arm, and a lineup, to MAYBE win 90 plus wins. 

    But 9 months from now can change a whole of things. And I'm not worried about a game 2 starter right now...even Gray fell apart...I'm just worried about the best staff and lineup the FO can put together. 

    Today's #2-3 starter might be an All Star come July.

    20 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

    Gm #4 Lugo if needed with short rest days, doubtful

    Lugo would have been a good back-end rotation piece, but Kansas City just signed him. As so many others are saying, if we want to compete at a higher level we need to add another arm in the range of Lopez or Gray, or something even better (dare I hope!). 

    16 hours ago, arby58 said:

    Through the end of June, Ryan had a 3.44 ERA. while Gray's was 2.67. Ryan's was better than Lopez' 4.24, but not really in Gray's stratosphere. The real problem, which I alluded to, was keeping the ball in the ballpark. Through the end of June, he'd given up 13 HRs. Gray 3.

    HR’s are a problem with Ryan - no question. He just seems to get loose with his command within the zone.

    The ERA separation between Gray & Ryan at the end of June - maybe 70 innings for each - could be 5 runs or so, not a different stratosphere.

    2 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

    Lugo would have been a good back-end rotation piece, but Kansas City just signed him. As so many others are saying, if we want to compete at a higher level we need to add another arm in the range of Lopez or Gray, or something even better (dare I hope!). 

    Bummer - They’ll all be gone (FA arms) by the time we sort out what to do - just going to have to cross fingers & hope! ….This drives Wacha up to $18M for 3 years, more than likely.

    20 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

    Bummer - They’ll all be gone (FA arms) by the time we sort out what to do - just going to have to cross fingers & hope! ….This drives Wacha up to $18M for 3 years, more than likely.

    Yes, this yearly wait for the front office to decide on signings and/or trades drives me nuts!

    On 12/14/2023 at 4:44 AM, Doctor Wu said:

    Yes, this yearly wait for the front office to decide on signings and/or trades drives me nuts!

    The only deciding by this front office seems to have been done years ago. They decided their strategy will always be to wait out the market when the prices comes down. 




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