What Should the Twins Do About the Middle Infield?

52 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

Yikes.  No one ever said to keep a player at his "preferred position".  They said to find the best position for a player when they are in the minors, give him the proper coaching to make him proficient and then let him play at that position until is ready to be called up.

Ok, now do Brooks Lee, who the Twins drafted and developed as a shortstop, played him at the minors at SS, called him up as a SS, played him in the majors as a SS.  It's becoming clear that he's not a major league SS.  What now?  Keep throwing him out there and hope for different results?  He's been trained as an SS after all...

I don't think it's a sin for the Twins to say, "hey Brooks, we think it would be better for the team, and better for your career, if you slide over to 2B."  Maybe people here disagree and are mad at the Twins for asking this of Lewis.  And that's fine - opinions and all.  

1 hour ago, jorgenswest said:

They had a stretch of drafting bat first players. Keaschall arm strength was an issue before his injuries. He was a questions to stay at 2B when he was drafted. Julien couldn’t find a position home in college. He moved around the infield looking for a fit. Steer looks like 1B is his only position. It is the same for Encarnacion-Strand. Almost all major league second basemen started as shortstops in the minors. They were good shortstops in the context of college or the low minors. None of these players were full time shortstops in the minors. Keaschall and Steer player there one season but that was more out of necessity. Coaching defense will only get these players so far.

Is Keaschall’s arm adequate in the outfield? If not does he have enough bat to be a 1B? I hope so. He could be a multiyear solution at 1B. Can Martin play 2B well if Keaschall can handle left?

One other player shouldn’t be left out of the middle infield discussion. The Twins already have a 2B on the roster that had a bat and glove last year that was above average for the position. Kody Clemens wRC+ was 95 while major league second basemen had an overall wRC+ of 90. His OAA and DRS are both positive for last year and his career at 2B. Last year his OPS as a Twin against right handed pitching was .797 which is far above the league OPS for a 2B. Mix that with an above average glove at 2B and that has to help the team win games.

Very good observations. LK was not considered a plus defender when drafted but it was kind of covered by his arm injury. Now that he should be fully healthy we can finally see what his arm will be. It shouldn’t take an experienced baseball person long to determine how his arm will play. IMO there is a real possibility that he can really only play first base. 

3 hours ago, arby58 said:

If Culpepper is expected to be ready in late 2026 or 2027, what is the point of trading Ryan for a 'near ready middle infielder? I'm not even sure a very good/major league ready middle infielder would be my target IF the Twins were to trade Ryan (and recent events suggest they are not). I'd be looking for a young 1B 'thumper' or catcher.

We have a difference of opinion on when Culpepper will be ready.  I believe he is near ready and could be promoted by the halfway point this year.  The other difference is you are trying to make the most of this year.  I would argue that trading away our best SP for a 1B would not make us any better but that's not the point.  My interest is in building a real contender.  IMO, it would take dramatically increased spending, great health, several players improving, and a couple trades to get this team to be a fringe contender this year.  

There is always the risk a rebuild does not work out.  That said, I like our chances once Culpepper, Jenkins, and Rodriguez get a shot.  I like those chances even better if we could add a couple really good prospects to mix via trading Ryan and Lopez as well as the 3rd pick next year.  Hopefully, there is a standout college player that can be here by 28 along with Tait. 

Get a MLB ready middle infielder by trading Ryan and start the 2027 season with that player plus Culpepper as middle Infielders.  Keashall and 1B, Lewis at 3B.  An outfield of Buxton / Jenkins and two of Rodriguez / Gonzalez / Roden / Martin.  That has the potential to be a much more talented and athletic team.  Add a couple more prospects in by trading Lopez at the deadline this year, Tait could be here by mid year 2027.  Spend 2026 transitioning SPs to the BP and that problem is greatly diminished by 2027 as well.  The 2027 team could be pretty darn good and by 2028 they should field a team with a real shot.

3 hours ago, old nurse said:

A player who didn’t recover from shoulder surgery isn’t the answer, either. 

I'm not advocating that either. I just think it's just a good idea to move Lee to a position that suits his skill set. 2B seems to Lee's destiny. Might as well move him there now. There are other stop gap options out there while we wait on Culpepper. 

It's pretty clear they need to acquire someone who can field shortstop at an MLB level because none of the players on the 40-man roster are good at it. That's the biggest hole on defense and it will keep this team from reaching the playoffs if it isn't solved. Even if everything else goes right, shortstop defense will kill this team's chances.

Austin Martin and Luke Keaschall are weirdly similar LF/2B players. I don't really care which one plays LF and which one plays 2B. With the current roster they need to find a way to get both of them in the lineup.

Brooks Lee fits best as a utility player off the bench, just like Kody Clemens.

They also need to add a first baseman who is a better player than Eddie Julien. That shouldn't be super difficult.

"Culpepper was pencilled in at third base in Basseball America's future Twins outlook, with Royce moving to... FIRST BASE. At some point the Twins have to make decisions at lower levels on the playing position projection of their players and stick with it."

And I don't hate it.....

36 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

We have a difference of opinion on when Culpepper will be ready.  I believe he is near ready and could be promoted before by the halfway point this year.  The other difference is you are trying to make the most of this year.  I would argue that trading away our best SP for a 1B would not make us any better but that's not the point.  My interest is in building a real contender.  IMO, it would take dramatically increased spending, great health, several players improving, and a couple trades to get this team to be a fringe contender this year.  

There is always the risk a rebuild does not work out.  That said, I like our chances once Culpepper, Jenkins, and Rodriguez get a shot.  I like those chances even better if we could add a couple really good prospects to mix via trading Ryan and Lopez as well as the 3rd pick next year.  Hopefully, there is a standout college player that can be here by 28 along with Tait. 

Get a MLB ready middle infielder by trading Ryan and start the 2027 season with that player plus Culpepper as middle Infielders.  Keashall and 1B, Lewis at 3B.  An outfield of Buxton / Jenkins and two of Rodriguez / Gonzalez / Roden / Martin.  That has the potential to be a much more talented and athletic team.  Add a couple more prospects in by trading Lopez at the deadline this year, Tait could be here by mid year 2027.  Spend 2026 transitioning SPs to the BP and that problem is greatly diminished by 2027 as well.  The 2027 team could be pretty darn good and by 2028 they should field a team with a real shot.

I have said for over a year now that this is the off season to move one of Ryan, Lopez or Ober. We now know it isn't Ober, not if you value the return. I concur on Pablo, but if he shows out of the gate that he is good I would be shopping him to every team by mid May. So it is Ryan. Why? Because the return will never be greater than it is now. The return is worth more than the wins he will get in 2026. As you stated for this team to contend it needs an influx of millions of dollars of talent. That talent continues to slowly drop off of the board and the reality is the Twins can't afford it anyway. Move Ryan sooner than later. As for the kind of prospects you suggest the teams that have them would very much like a Joe Ryan I can assure you. Arias from Boston. Lombard from the NYY. Miller from the Phils. Even Rainer from Detroit, though he's a little further out he'd still fit. Rainer might actually be the guy I like the most of those I listed. Yes I'd expect other additions to one of those guys but each would make an adequate center piece for us. Just my opinion on moving Joe Ryan. Not moving him now is actually doing an injustice to the future of the team. Again my opinion.

4 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I get your point but if a guy isn't good enough to stick at his "preferred" position then it would be equally stupid continuing to play him there to the detriment of the team wouldn't it?  I guess I'm saying there must be a compromise somewhere between "Player X must be able to hit and play anywhere" and "Player X must never be moved off his favorite position".  2026 is going to be make or break for Lee at SS, so if it doesn't go great he might be well served to start developing some other skills, such as versatility, that would allow him to continue his careers at the MLB level.  If he insists on playing shortstop then he might soon find himself doing that in the minors.  

You make a really good case - but only up to a certain point. IMHO, Rocco et al had so many of these kids completely nuts between different positions, platooning, different spots in the order, and getting in his doghouse when they made bad plays.  It’s no wonder they couldn’t become decent full-timers. They just had too much to worry about.
 

Try them at a new position, they make a few errors, then they start putting pressure on themselves at the plate to make up for it so they won’t get sent down, soon they are in a slump, their confidence is shot and they are back in St Paul.  It’s not like this isn’t a common pattern among many of our prospects under Rocco going back years.

If you want the kids to develop, pick a position (or two), put them in the lineup every day in about the same spot in the order, and let them clear their heads and play ball.  

41 minutes ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

I have said for over a year now that this is the off season to move one of Ryan, Lopez or Ober. We now know it isn't Ober, not if you value the return. I concur on Pablo, but if he shows out of the gate that he is good I would be shopping him to every team by mid May. So it is Ryan. Why? Because the return will never be greater than it is now. The return is worth more than the wins he will get in 2026. As you stated for this team to contend it needs an influx of millions of dollars of talent. That talent continues to slowly drop off of the board and the reality is the Twins can't afford it anyway. Move Ryan sooner than later. As for the kind of prospects you suggest the teams that have them would very much like a Joe Ryan I can assure you. Arias from Boston. Lombard from the NYY. Miller from the Phils. Even Rainer from Detroit, though he's a little further out he'd still fit. Rainer might actually be the guy I like the most of those I listed. Yes I'd expect other additions to one of those guys but each would make an adequate center piece for us. Just my opinion on moving Joe Ryan. Not moving him now is actually doing an injustice to the future of the team. Again my opinion.

Just talking too much sense.  

1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

We have a difference of opinion on when Culpepper will be ready.  I believe he is near ready and could be promoted by the halfway point this year.  The other difference is you are trying to make the most of this year.  I would argue that trading away our best SP for a 1B would not make us any better but that's not the point.  My interest is in building a real contender.  IMO, it would take dramatically increased spending, great health, several players improving, and a couple trades to get this team to be a fringe contender this year.  

There is always the risk a rebuild does not work out.  That said, I like our chances once Culpepper, Jenkins, and Rodriguez get a shot.  I like those chances even better if we could add a couple really good prospects to mix via trading Ryan and Lopez as well as the 3rd pick next year.  Hopefully, there is a standout college player that can be here by 28 along with Tait. 

Get a MLB ready middle infielder by trading Ryan and start the 2027 season with that player plus Culpepper as middle Infielders.  Keashall and 1B, Lewis at 3B.  An outfield of Buxton / Jenkins and two of Rodriguez / Gonzalez / Roden / Martin.  That has the potential to be a much more talented and athletic team.  Add a couple more prospects in by trading Lopez at the deadline this year, Tait could be here by mid year 2027.  Spend 2026 transitioning SPs to the BP and that problem is greatly diminished by 2027 as well.  The 2027 team could be pretty darn good and by 2028 they should field a team with a real shot.

You’re hired. 

5 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Let’s take another young talent and move him around the diamond and screw with his head just like Rocco has done for years with so many of our prospects.  It’s just so stupid.

 

Lee is not and is never going to be good enough at shortstop. Full stop  

Playing him at short until Culpepper, Houston, or PlayerX is ready is an option, sure. But that’s like driving on the highway knowing that car can’t even get to the speed limit on the highway,

Occasionally there’s no choice, agreed. But going with that as Plan A makes failure unavoidable. Planned failure is not fair to the player or the team. 

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Kim's arm was still better than Lee's last year. He had the 22nd best arm amongst shortstops last year. In other words, better than 7 other starting SS. Certainly not as good as when he was a top 10-15 arm at the position, but still hanging on to SS worthy. Better arm than gold glove winning Jeremy Pena and JP Crawford, multiple time gold glove winner Dansby Swanson, superstars Mookie Betts, Corey Seager, and Bo Bichette, significantly better than Brooks Lee, glove only Taylor Walls, the guy an article on here suggested the Twins should go get for SS yesterday CJ Abrams, and essentially the same arm as all world defender Andres Gimenez.

I think you're severely overstating Kim's arm struggles last year.

Where do those stats come from?

Suggesting getting Kim on a make good deal is not happening. He just opted out of the last year and $16 million of his contract to get a better deal. And Atlanta was wolling to pay him the $16 million if he hadn't opted out.

5 hours ago, rv78 said:

Who are the handsome players the DBacks or A's would be enticed with?

Well, one must accept the GMs being disgusted with an offer but it never hurts to try. The offer to Arizona could be Ober, DeBarge for Jordan Lawler. I actually moved away from that thought a while back because I wanted to use Ober in a separate deal.

A trade with West Sacramento might be more difficult to pull off. The target is Leodalis De Vries and again I use Kyle DeBarge (remember I cancelled the previous idea) and added two pitchers; Kendry Rojas and Joe Ryan. We cannot know how these ideas would be received but it might be tempting for the Athletics to have a TOR starting pitcher, a solid SP prospect, and a promising athletic utility infielder. If the A's were looking for something else, I might offer Brooks Lee or Royce Lewis and Zebby Matthews or Taj Bradley for De Vries. I don't really want to trade Lee or Lewis though.

More importantly though, what ideas do you have for fixing the Twins or do you think they are fine as is?

5 hours ago, rv78 said:

In August the Twins changed the way they played based on a suggestion from Tingler.

That was the rumor. Don't you think that Rocco and Jayce talked all the time about the yoke of the front office? Looking at both guys' past histories tells me that their (neither RB nor JT) preferred styles were not in play  under  Falvey.

When Levine was shown the door there were many comments that he would be in a front office within a couple of weeks or months at the longest. Levine is a good baseball guy; he is doing podcasts or fooling around like us. Meanwhile both Rocco and Jayce get picked up right away after sifting through a pile of offers by two of the prime franchises in all of baseball. Past is prologue. 

All that said, I like the new coaches quite a bit and expect we shall see some changes. I also like Derek Shelton. He is a strong baseball guy.

5 hours ago, bean5302 said:

I'd hire a coach who understands how to coach defense... but that's just me.

 

They have.

Move Lewis to First , Lee to Third , Clemens to Second Base and get a good Short Stop.

12 hours ago, RpR said:

Move Lewis to First , Lee to Third , Clemens to Second Base and get a good Short Stop.

Let's sum this up.  Move a good 3B defender with a wRC+ of 85 to 1st base to replace a guy with a 98 wRC+ so that you can put a guy with a 81 wRC+ at 3B.  The end result is an entire infield of below average hitters and you have not improved the defense in 3 of the 4 spots.  Of course, you don't just go and get a SS that can both defend and hit.  Plus, apparently, you have the best player (Keaschall) on the bench.  This does not sound like a recipe for success to me.  Sounds like a recipe for mediocrity at best.