Spencer Steer and Christian Encarnacion-Strand Could Haunt the Twins For a Long Time

Well yeah, we lost that trade. Sigh. But looking back, I'd do it again (of course, doing it with the hope that Mahle would be healthy). We wanted an above average starting pitcher, and we didn't have to give up any of our top tier prospects to get him. It looked like a good win-win trade at the time. I liked it. But now ... not much more to add. This one stings. I wish Steer and CES all the best and hope they have long careers. Don't  know what will happen to Mahle at this point, but it's doubtful we'll see him in a Twins uniform again. But hey, that's baseball. Funny game. 

12 hours ago, Jocko87 said:

 

Do the Tampa Bay Rays have a message board lamenting that dang Joe Ryan trade?  Serious question, if not, room for expansion!

 

The difference was that the rays had a legit contender.  The Twins were a playoff team not based on the merit of their team but the futility of the others in the division.  The Twins should have never been spending that much prospect capital for 1/2 a season when they really were not contenders and 1 additional season.  I have no problem with them trading Steer and CES given their limitations but not for a short-term SP, especially one that was not the type of dominant SP needed in the playoffs.

16 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Both of their defensive limitations lessen the likelihood that they're truly haunting losses. But Steer's current batting line sure would look nice in the Twins lineup right now. I wouldn't replace Lewis or Kirilloff with him, though.

With the right coaching I think they can improve their defensive weaknesses but doubt that would have happened here.  That trade really hurts!

46 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

I wish Steer and CES all the best and hope they have long careers. Don't  know what will happen to Mahle at this point, but it's doubtful we'll see him in a Twins uniform again.

I bet they are both thrilled to get a chance on a contending team or at least not the Twins who IMO will never spend what is needed and I question their ability to see a good player.  

You can never look at each trade in a vacuum of these guys for that guy(s), and who won trade.  You have to pay attention to other moves made or not made, who else was in system and so on.  Looking at Steer, he has shown good offense, something we knew he had, but also shown poor defense.  bWAR has him negative at defense playing 3rd, 1st, and DH this year.  He maybe would have played some 2nd if we kept him.  Would his offensive numbers slotting in at 2nd for who we have put out may have been nice, but who knows what defense he would have brought.  Right now, he would not be in our starting lineup though, because Buck has DH locked up, AK or Gallo have 1b locked up, Steer could get games against lefties some times, and Lewis will have 3rd mostly locked down.  So where does Steer play for us, or who would you want to get moved out for Steer? 

CES may very well mash, but again, he plays basically no defense.  He is playing mostly 1b for Reds AAA team, and that is not great.  He is all offense, and his k-rate is a little scary.  He may turn out to be one of those AAAA players that when facing MLB level pitching his K-rate becomes a big concern, we will see.  Either way, unless he is a superstar hitter, he would again most likely slot behind guys we have already.  Keeping in mind for both Steer and CES, Lee is in the wings too.  

Will the trade haunt?  No, it will not in my opinion.  The only thing you can really be upset about is that we did not get much in return, and maybe could have flipped them for something during off-season.  However, I am not seeing either being that much better than who we have that I would be like darn what could have been.  Maybe CES becomes a hitting superstar, but I just have a feeling he will struggle at MLB level, not many guys that strike out at a rate of about 33% at minor league level improve at MLB level. If he cannot keep up his very high BABIP at MLB level when he gets called up, he will struggle badly and since he offers no defense he will have less value.  

1 minute ago, Riverbrian said:

I'll be honest... If my front office ever looked at a team in contention and ignored it because they didn't believe it. 

I'd want them gone.   

Baltimore had the same record last year.  They were sellers instead of buyers and are better for it now.   Looking at last years team as a contender required fanaticism not objective management.  Nobody outside of Minnesota fans gave them any chance and the results speak for themselves.  They had a modest chance at contending when the season started but they had none after being riddled with injuries.  

Being in first place is a poor measuring stick for ability to contend as proven again by this year's team.   Would you spend more capital at this deadline if they continue to be this anemic offensively?   They are after all in first place.

9 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

You're not getting a better pitcher with more control for Steer and CES.

I agree.  My thought was that Mahle was unlikely to be a difference maker in the playoffs.  He really was not even going to have a significant influence on making the playoffs.  Varland and Ober have both pitched as well as we could have hope for from Mahle.  So, what was the point.  I have no problem with them trading away Steer and CES.  My point was that Mahle was not what we needed.  Don't get me wrong.  A solid SP is always a plus but he did not move the needle much.  It did not have to be a pitcher.  I could have been a RP or a catcher or someone that could play CF in a similar role to MAT.

12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Baltimore had the same record last year.  They were sellers instead of buyers and are better for it now.   Looking at last years team as a contender required fanaticism not objective management.  Nobody outside of Minnesota fans gave them any chance and the results speak for themselves.  They had a modest chance at contending when the season started but they had none after being riddled with injuries.  

Being in first place is a poor measuring stick for ability to contend as proven again by this year's team.   Would you spend more capital at this deadline if they continue to be this anemic offensively?   They are after all in first place.

I somewhat agree with your point that standing pat is defensible sometimes, but 2022 Baltimore is a poor comparison to 2022 Minnesota. No one expected BAL to be anywhere near first place and they had no depth to advance in the playoffs, but MIN had a core of quality vets on hand that the kids were supporting well. There was no certainty that all the injured guys would be gone through the end of the year, or that Grey, Ryan, Ober and a healthy Mahle that pitched to his road record wouldn't have been enough to get into the playoffs. As mentioned above, there's a lot of guesswork in these projections and trades, particularly when injuries are involved. (You need to live with some acceptance of injury risk with all pitchers. Example: Sonny Grey has a very long injury history yet he's been pretty good here when kept on a short innings leash.) 

Anyway, over-simplifying cases does no one any favors. The future is hard, so embrace the ambiguity, question anyone who is too certain, forgive mis-reads, enjoy the game.

18 hours ago, roger said:

Don’t like using the word “haunting.”  To haunt the Twins they would need to have been traded to a team we play a lot, say the Sox or Guardians, and continually get big hits leading to losses.  At least that’s how I look at it.

Don’t get me wrong, we gave up a ton and will get little in return.  But the trade made sense the day it was made.  The good news is that several above have pointed out that both hitters would be blocked with the Twins.  Suppose you could counter that by saying they would get more if traded today.  Perhaps much more?

Everyone was happy the day of the mahle trade but Everyone but the FO had concerns of his history of injury  ...

As I stated when arreaz ( major leaguer ) got traded that he would get the game winning hit in the bottom of the ninth in the 7th game of a Miami  / Minnesota  world series ...

Now that would haunt the fan base ...

We went after pitching and gave up alot but that is exactly how the Yankees do it ...

Never saw them play as a Twin. 

I won't miss them

 They will haunt me not

I wish them the best.

On 5/31/2023 at 2:43 PM, weitz41 said:

Man, there's a lot to pick apart here. Don't get me wrong because of the injuries to Mahle its low hanging fruit to say the Twins FO screwed up.  I get it..but hindsight is 20/20 and you can probably say that about maybe 60% or more of all deadline trades. Ask the White Sox about the Tatis trade...

There's to many examples' similar to the Mahle trade to just pour gas on it for the sake of I want a bigger fire.

Juan Nunez from the Jorge Lopez trade could end up as a Cy Young winner as well.

To get to the nitty gritty of it IMO. Steer had at minimum Miranda and likely Lewis in line before him. CES would have Kirilloff, at least Gallo and probably Salano ahead of him. So, they gave up the third option for 2 positions for a decent chance at maybe their third best starter. I doubt many (if any) teams would pass on that. Ghosts of Christmas past or not.

See: Chase Petty

18 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Luis Arraez grounded into a double play in a high leverage spot, and Pablo Lopez didn’t even get into the game! 

And Tommy Herr and Tom Brunansky are both retired! 

Sadly, you have to give up something to get something. No more of those Nick Punto and a middling prospect for X superstar trades, I guess.

Those prospect losses wouldn't hurt so much if we had received value in the Berrios trade.

50 minutes ago, purplesoldier4u said:

See: Chase Petty