Stanton!?

[DaveW]

Also for the record, I would give up anyone not named Sano or Buxton for Stanton in a heartbeat, hell I would give up 3 of them as long as two weren't pitchers.

[nicksaviking]

Also for the record, I would give up anyone not named Sano or Buxton for Stanton in a heartbeat, hell I would give up 3 of them as long as two weren't pitchers.

 

I'm with you but if the Twins aren't giving up Sano or Buxton, it will be because of their super-star potential which also carries super-star salary. If refusal to part with either of them is any indication of future contract commitment, no way would the Twins (or nearly any other MLB team) find a way to pay all three of these young men when it is time to open the checkbook.

[DaveW]

I'm with you but if the Twins aren't giving up Sano or Buxton, it will be because of their super-star potential which also carries super-star salary. If refusal to part with either of them is any indication of future contract commitment, no way would the Twins (or nearly any other MLB team) find a way to pay all three of these young men when it is time to open the checkbook.

I don't anticipate the Twins being able to sign Stanon long term if they get him by some miracle, the time to lock him in for at least a somewhat friendly extension has possibly come and gone at this point?

[gosioux88]

Buxton and Sano are way off limits, as are Meyer and May. I would give up anyone else for Stanton. Just imagine the line up in a few years of Buxton Mauer Sano and Stanton

[Mike Sixel]

I'd trade May in a deal for a proven player.......high upside, but very low floor also. Not sure I believe I just typed that.....

[DaveW]

People do realize that May isn't that great of a prospect right?

[AROG]

As I stated in the Article comments, I believe this could be done for Arcia, Rosario, Morales and Jorge. Now, that is a lot of talent and one Ryan may not agree to even if he had the chance. But, that is a major league ready OF, a close to ready 2B, a 2-3 year away CF and a High Ceiling RHP. The Marlins have a lot of talented young pitchers that are close to ready for the show and we may be able to swing one of those in the deal too, but they wont want pitching in return unless it is a high ceiling really young one.

 

You wouldn't have to get rid of Buxton or Sano

[Oxtung]

It's a fallback spot which is why it's so under-represented in the HoF. Third is often populated by no-hit shortstops and no-field first basemen. If you can find a guy to adequately man third and hit like a first baseman, you have a very rare commodity on your hands and that guy is going to be more valuable than the equivalent corner outfielder.

 

Third base isn't a "premium spot" but it's still more valuable than a corner outfield spot, particularly with a pitching staff that doesn't miss bats and seems content with killing as many worms as possible.

 

All else being equal 3B is probably worth more than RF but what if the 3rd baseman is below average defensively and the RF is great? I don't know the answer to that one. That is a likely scenario (assuming Stanton is a great OF I haven't looked it up).

[Brock Beauchamp]

People do realize that May isn't that great of a prospect right?

 

Shush, Dave. He's amazing.

[howeda7]

Are we just going to assume if we got Stanton we wouldn't sign him to a long term deal? If so, why is that? Why do we as fans need to worry about creating the lowest paid team possible?

 

Sano is a stud prospect, but he's still just a prospect. We don't know for sure what he'll do in the majors. Even if he becomes a stud, we could wait years for it to click. We know what Stanton can do and there's no reason, at all, to just figure we'd let him go when he became a FA ,or that we'd have to, with all the money available.

 

We don't need to worry about creating the 'lowest paid team possible.' But if Sano and Stanton end up being comparable players, and we pay $100 million for 6-years of Stanton when we could have had 6 years of Sano for $20 million, that's a bad trade. Stanton's arb. years won't be cheap and keeping him past 2016 will mean at least 3 years of paying him and Mauer in excess of $40 million.

[Mike Sixel]

Shush, Dave. He's amazing.

 

That's kind of what I was trying to say, without being negative....

[Mike Sixel]

We don't need to worry about creating the 'lowest paid team possible.' But if Sano and Stanton end up being comparable players, and we pay $100 million for 6-years of Stanton when we could have had 6 years of Sano for $20 million, that's a bad trade. Stanton's arb. years won't be cheap and keeping him past 2016 will mean at least 3 years of paying him and Mauer in excess of $40 million.

 

And? They lose more than $20MM in payroll this year, and get $25MM more in revenue starting next year. They could sign $45MM in free agents, and not impact their cost structure at all.........

[Steve Lein]

As I stated in the Article comments, I believe this could be done for Arcia, Rosario, Morales and Jorge. Now, that is a lot of talent and one Ryan may not agree to even if he had the chance. But, that is a major league ready OF, a close to ready 2B, a 2-3 year away CF and a High Ceiling RHP. The Marlins have a lot of talented young pitchers that are close to ready for the show and we may be able to swing one of those in the deal too, but they wont want pitching in return unless it is a high ceiling really young one.

 

You wouldn't have to get rid of Buxton or Sano

 

I wouldn't be so assured that gets it done. Arcia is nice start, but he'd have to be the 2nd part of that deal, not the first. Same with Rosario. And adding them together still does not equal what the first part would need to be. Morales isn't much of a prospect anymore. He had a good start in A+ this year, but has been dreadful in AA, and will turn 24 in November. He's already been in the organization 7 seasons. Jorge is a wildcard, not even the Twins know what they have with him yet. Look to Adrian Salcedo for a similar reality check on him though.

 

If you want a trade comparison, look at what the Tigers gave up to get Miguel Cabrera back in 2007. Cameron Maybin was BA's #6 overall prospect that season, and Andrew Miller was #10. Plus, there were 4 other players in that deal.

 

Rosario wasn't even on top 100 lists this year, and Arcia was #41 on BA. It wouldn't take Buxton AND Sano to get Stanton, but it would take a helluva lot more than what you're proposing, and almost assuredly one of them. If you're trading an established superstar, you need to make sure you're getting someone back who has the potential to be just as good, and none of the guys you're suggesting are that type.

 

What the Rangers got from the Braves for Mark Teixeira is a good example to me of what it would take as far as level of prospects are concerned. If you don't know who the Rangers got, it included Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, all of whom were on BA's Top 100 that year or the next.

 

And Trevor May needs to be switched to the bullpen, think they've waited too long already. He'll be a wipeout reliever, but don't know if he'll ever make it as a starter, especially in the Twins organization who's heads explode if you can't stay in the strike zone.

[diehardtwinsfan]

People do realize that May isn't that great of a prospect right?

 

Probably more in the high risk high reward category right now. I wouldn't call him a bad prospect. He'd be top 10 in a good number of systems, though in ours I'm not sure anymore. Peripherals are improving, but the rate stats have not. He's going to take a bit longer to develop, but I could see him putting it together and becoming a well above average ML pitcher. He could also end up being a reliever. At this point, I'd say he's likely going to make the majors... just not sure the capacity.

[ThePuck]

At this point, I'd say he's likely going to make the majors... just not sure the capacity.

 

How many guys have the Twins promoted in the last couple years that likely shouldn't have ever been MLBers...especially pitchers?

[Cap'n Piranha]

I doubt Bundy is available, and while they'd want Rosario, I doubt the rest would be what you needed to get him.

 

That and how sold are you of Dozier at 2nd? That's who ends up being the 2B of the future if Rosario is traded. I'm liking Dozier more and more as he continues to show that this improvement is for real, but I think it's a bit premature to start dangling Rosario. Also, from a need standpoint, I think you leave Pinto off.

 

Prior to the July deadline, reports had the Orioles dangling Bundy. As far as wondering if we should give up Rosario (thereby leaving us with Dozier long term at 2B), a potential ace starter is well worth going from a potentially above-average 2B to a replacement/average 2B. Tell me which you would rather have;

 

Bundy, with Dozier (or even Polanco) at 2B, with Mauer/Herrmann at Catcher

No Bundy, with Rosario at 2B, and Mauer/Pinto at Catcher.

 

That's an easy choice for me.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Probably more in the high risk high reward category right now. I wouldn't call him a bad prospect. He'd be top 10 in a good number of systems, though in ours I'm not sure anymore. Peripherals are improving, but the rate stats have not. He's going to take a bit longer to develop, but I could see him putting it together and becoming a well above average ML pitcher. He could also end up being a reliever. At this point, I'd say he's likely going to make the majors... just not sure the capacity.

 

I like May, and I think he's a valuable piece, but he's a guy that is almost 24, and in his second full season at AA, he is largely the same pitcher. His ERA, WHIP, and K/9 are largely the same, while he has made modest improvement in HR rate, BB/9, and average IP/start. I'm glad we tried him as a starter, but now is the time to switch him to the pen, so we can have a three-headed late inning monster of May, Zach Jones, and Perkins in 2015.

[jokin]

Prior to the July deadline' date=' reports had the Orioles dangling Bundy. As far as wondering if we should give up Rosario (thereby leaving us with Dozier long term at 2B), a potential ace starter is well worth going from a potentially above-average 2B to a replacement/average 2B. Tell me which you would rather have;

 

Bundy, with Dozier (or even Polanco) at 2B, with Mauer/Herrmann at Catcher

No Bundy, with Rosario at 2B, and Mauer/Pinto at Catcher.

 

That's an easy choice for me.[/quote']

 

I have liked Bundy from the day he was drafted, but as pitching-challenged and cautious about their prospects as the Orioles are, it is very concerning and raises a lot of questions about his health and long-term prognosis after TJ that the O's are dangling him out there. Perhaps they have the win-now fever, but this move is so against Duquette's philosophy, it does make one wonder.

 

Obviously, in all of this trade talk for young elite studs, Bundy only turns 21 in November so odds should strongly favor a complete recovery from surgery and a potential front-end #1 starter as early as mid-2014. Doing the math on the costs of trading for available aces has to have priority over contemplation of a Stanton trade.

[nicksaviking]

And Trevor May needs to be switched to the bullpen, think they've waited too long already. He'll be a wipeout reliever, but don't know if he'll ever make it as a starter, especially in the Twins organization who's heads explode if you can't stay in the strike zone.

 

Interesting take. Which heads in particular would his insertion into the rotation cause an explosion, I'm now very intregued?

[nicksaviking]

Prior to the July deadline' date=' reports had the Orioles dangling Bundy. As far as wondering if we should give up Rosario (thereby leaving us with Dozier long term at 2B), a potential ace starter is well worth going from a potentially above-average 2B to a replacement/average 2B. Tell me which you would rather have;

 

Bundy, with Dozier (or even Polanco) at 2B, with Mauer/Herrmann at Catcher

No Bundy, with Rosario at 2B, and Mauer/Pinto at Catcher.

 

That's an easy choice for me.[/quote']

 

The Orioles were not dangling Bundy. Simply when asked if everyone was available, they said yes, which of course was taken by wild-eyed bloggers to mean their favorite team could acquire him at basement-bottom, close-out prices.

 

Could the Twins get him? Sure, as the Orioles said, everyone is available, but likely for what the Orioles deem a comparable value. That would likely be Sano or Buxton, not Rosario. That being said, prospects rarely get traded for each other.

[jokin]

The Orioles were not dangling Bundy. Simply when asked if everyone was available, they said yes, which of course was taken by wild-eyed bloggers to mean their favorite team could acquire him at basement-bottom, close-out prices.

 

Could the Twins get him? Sure, as the Orioles said, everyone is available, but likely for what the Orioles deem a comparable value. That would likely be Sano or Buxton, not Rosario. That being said, prospects rarely get traded for each other.

 

Your glib humor is a major asset to TD, but in this case, there was fire to go along with this smoke concerning Bundy. But you're right, Rosario and a package isn't going to get him in July, they need major league ready bats. Meanwhile, Bundy's name was actively out there as the Orioles were looking at the possibilities of acquiring a young up and coming, cost-controlled bat in the last offseason, Wil Myers name was quite prominent in those discussions.

[Steve Lein]

Interesting take. Which heads in particular would his insertion into the rotation cause an explosion, I'm now very intregued?

 

Rick Anderson wouldn't last an inning, Gardy might. Terry Ryan would melt like the wicked witch of the west. q;)

 

But yeah, I know that statement really is something everyone around here already knows, but to me, it's almost like there's a set rule where something like a walk rate above 4/9IP automatically excludes anyone from a promotion.

 

In relation to this, one question I have is why is Zach Jones still in Fort Myers? It has to be the walk rate (5.2/9IP), but he's not being hurt by it (only 24 hits allowed and a 1.85 ERA in 43.2 IP). If you are ever going to get the guy to alter anything and improve this, I think you have to challenge him to the point where it does. That's obviously not happening in High-A ball right now.

 

And there's also no reason to hold back a stud RP prospect, or put him in the rookie leagues after drafting him. J.T. Chargois is a prime example. He was one of the prospects 'experts' were saying could be quickest to the Majors drafted last year. Many also were saying he should get sent straight to Double-A in the hopes of getting some useful innings out of his arm for the MLB team before it exploded. Well so far he's only played in the Appy League, and the Twins probably should have listened because he's been hurt all year with an elbow problem that looks like it's destined for TJ surgery (last mention of him I've seen anywhere was LENIII saying he's on a throwing program back in June).

 

I've been posting this quote a few other places in relation to Adam Walker, but it applies here as well and is referring to the Twins philosophy of player development in general. From a Keith Law chat a few weeks ago:

[h=6]Klaw (1:59 PM)

[/h]

 

Seriously, don't draft a good college player in the first few rounds and send him to low-A in his first full year. You're wasting everyone's time.

[Mike Sixel]

KLAW does not like that, for sure. He believes college players should not be playing against EST and appy league and younger, inferior, players. The Twins have largely disagreed with that.

[twinscowboysbulls]

So we traded Buxton, Meyer, Sano for Fernandez and Stanton?

[Mr. Brooks]

We don't need to worry about creating the 'lowest paid team possible.' But if Sano and Stanton end up being comparable players, and we pay $100 million for 6-years of Stanton when we could have had 6 years of Sano for $20 million, that's a bad trade. Stanton's arb. years won't be cheap and keeping him past 2016 will mean at least 3 years of paying him and Mauer in excess of $40 million.

 

If you get 6 years of Sano for $20 million then he will have been a pretty big disappointment.