Correia's last day with the Twins...

[PseudoSABR]

Mediocre pitchers who eat innings and stay healthy have value, who knew.

[jokin]

If the performance had been from Gibson, would you be so quick to dismiss it?

 

Uhh, that isn't even an apples-and-oranges comparison. Not in the same fruit family, same species, same genus. I'll grant you that both do breathe oxygen for continued sustenance and existence. While Correia has 11 years of major league experience, Gibson has 8 STARTS of major league experience. Gibson is on wearying, soon-to-be expired, and limited, innings, coming off of TJ surgery while learning on the job how to become a big league starter, that lack of ML know-how is a bad combination with his current less-than-his-best stuff. Meanwhile, Correia is coming off of yet another year of a 6 year slide on the downward end of his 11 year career, moving ever-onward in increasing his self-marginalization as a legitimately viable ML SP.

 

Don't get me wrong, these infrequent superior performances by Correia against inferior opponents make the games more fun to watch and I'm happy for him and the Twins.......but I actually got more encouragement in this series from Hendriks's quite similar performance on Friday night. While there still may be the slightest hope that Hendriks can be part of the solution as a #5 starter when the Twins finally turn the corner, Correia simply fills his role as "pretty darn good pitching" placeholder-in-waiting-for-the-return-to-relevancy-when-he-can-be-shown-the-door-already.

[jokin]

Mediocre pitchers who eat innings and stay healthy have value, who knew.

 

Value to whom? KC was untradeable, tradeability is kind of the point for a team looking to rebuild.

[old nurse]

Value to whom? KC was untradeable, tradeability is kind of the point for a team looking to rebuild.

Vernon Wells had an untradeable contract. He has been moved twice.

Feldman was the only player signed last winter that was traded. That does not support an argument for signing players to be shopped. Impeding first time free agents were shopped that had some value.

[Thegrin]

The only real value that Correia gives the Twins is when they throw him against our opponents #1 starter. The Twins will unlikely win the game anyway, so pitch him against Verlander, Masterson, Shields et al.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The only real value that Correia gives the Twins is when they throw him against our opponents #1 starter. The Twins will unlikely win the game anyway, so pitch him against Verlander, Masterson, Shields et al.

 

Yeah, that's not true at all. I don't like the Correia signing or even Correia himself much but let's not blow things out of proportion. Mediocre starters being paid a fair wage have value. He's on pace to pitch around 180 innings of 90 ERA+ ball. That's what $5m gets you in 2013. Not a lot but far from worthless.

[Oxtung]

Yeah, that's not true at all. I don't like the Correia signing or even Correia himself much but let's not blow things out of proportion. Mediocre starters being paid a fair wage have value. He's on pace to pitch around 180 innings of 90 ERA+ ball. That's what $5m gets you in 2013. Not a lot but far from worthless.

 

Can someone explain to me how the Twins will be improved in 2015 because they signed Correia? In order to have "value" some benefit has to be received. If KC was signed by a contending team then the argument could be helping towards contention but the Twins aren't in that situation. He isn't a piece for the future. He isn't going to bring back a piece for the future. He isn't helping us contend. I just don't see the value.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Can someone explain to me how the Twins will be improved in 2015 because they signed Correia? In order to have "value" some benefit has to be received. If KC was signed by a contending team then the argument could be helping towards contention but the Twins aren't in that situation. He isn't a piece for the future. He isn't going to bring back a piece for the future. He isn't helping us contend. I just don't see the value.

 

He's better than the junk they'd be throwing out there otherwise. Again, I did not and do not like the acquisition but there's obviously value there. Winning games is value, whether it puts the team in contention or not.

[ThePuck]

Can someone explain to me how the Twins will be improved in 2015 because they signed Correia? In order to have "value" some benefit has to be received. If KC was signed by a contending team then the argument could be helping towards contention but the Twins aren't in that situation. He isn't a piece for the future. He isn't going to bring back a piece for the future. He isn't helping us contend. I just don't see the value.

 

If your goal is to get 5M dollars worth of FA pitching, he has value. Based on the market, he may end up there. Right now he is at 4.5, but that amount goes up and down. He was worth less than 2M in the previous three years combined.

 

Be nice to pay a pitcher 15M and get 15M worth of pitching, but it is what it is...

[Mike Sixel]

As much as I hate the signing........and feel like adding bad/medicore players leads to bad results......

 

He's probably better than Worley and Diamond and most other choices right now. That is how bad this pitching staff is.....he's better than most every other option not named Deduno on this 40 man roster.

 

That said, I want Hendiks up here, now, pitching every week. Fish. Or. Cut. Bait. There is no reason for KC to pitch instead of Hendriks right now, IMO.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Be nice to pay a pitcher 15M and get 15M worth of pitching, but it is what it is...

 

Let's glue three Kevin Correias together and see what happens.

[Oxtung]

He's better than the junk they'd be throwing out there otherwise. Again, I did not and do not like the acquisition but there's obviously value there. Winning games is value, whether it puts the team in contention or not.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I really can't see your point of view. Let's say the Twins throw that "junk" out there instead. They lose an extra 2 or 3 games. What value has been lost? They are terrible either way. At least if they lose an extra couple games they might end up with a higher draft pick which has potential value. There is also a chance that "junk" shows he might have a future in the league like Florimon and Deduno.

 

I'm not saying that KC has no value. I'm saying he has no value to the Twins. You put him on another team and those innings and 2 wins might become important.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I really can't see your point of view. Let's say the Twins throw that "junk" out there instead. They lose an extra 2 or 3 games. What value has been lost? They are terrible either way. At least if they lose an extra couple games they might end up with a higher draft pick which has potential value. There is also a chance that "junk" shows he might have a future in the league like Florimon and Deduno.

 

I'm not saying that KC has no value. I'm saying he has no value to the Twins. You put him on another team and those innings and 2 wins might become important.

 

Going into the season, we didn't know they'd be a 73 win team. Most of us thought they'd be a 73 win team but it wasn't a certainty at that point.

 

I'm of the opinion that a win is a win and winning 73 games is more valuable than winning 71. Which is why I wanted to see the Twins pursue Dempster, Marcum, etc. instead of bottom-feeding with Correia. It's a long season and you never know what will happen if a couple of youngsters surprise.

 

Will Correia positively impact the team in 2014? That's a fair question and given how many young players the Twins should be starting right now (Worley, Hendriks, etc), I'm with you that I'd rather see them getting starts right now over KC.

 

Hey, maybe JR moves him before ST next season. Unlikely, but I certainly wouldn't mourn the loss of Correia.

[ashbury]

Can someone explain to me how the Twins will be improved in 2015 because they signed Correia?

 

Probably he doesn't improve the 2015 team. Instead, he helps keep the revenue stream where it needs to be, by bridging the 2012 team to 2014 with (hopefully) two years of starts that are better than 64 starts by P J Walters or others like him and keeping away from the dreaded 100 loss level.

[Mike Sixel]

Wait, you think KC is helping the revenue stream? I cannot buy that one. I agree with much of what you type, but no way KC is helping the revenue stream.

[TheLeviathan]

Probably he doesn't improve the 2015 team. Instead, he helps keep the revenue stream where it needs to be, by bridging the 2012 team to 2014 with (hopefully) two years of starts that are better than 64 starts by P J Walters or others like him and keeping away from the dreaded 100 loss level.

 

Yeah, that's a pretty shaky limb right there. 1) We're not far from 100 losses as-is, so he's not really keeping us away from it. 2) He's not significantly different than PJ IMO and 3) Most importantly, no one is thinking better of the Twins as a buyer of the product because Correia is on the team.

 

That isn't to take a stance on his value, just that this route to assign him some value is really misguided IMO.

[snepp]

2) He's not significantly different than PJ IMO

 

I'm sick of the KC era as much as anybody, but let's not go overboard.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm sick of the KC era as much as anybody, but let's not go overboard.

 

Correia is somewhat better in performance....their impact on revenue streams? Insignificant IMO.

[Brock Beauchamp]

We're talking about the PJ Walters with an ERA of 5.94 and almost 12 hits allowed per nine innings, right? That PJ Walters?

[TheLeviathan]

We're talking about the PJ Walters with an ERA of 5.94 and almost 12 hits allowed per nine innings, right? That PJ Walters?

 

Yes, I'd argue as many paying customers come for him as Kevin Correia. PJ Walters is a replacement level player. Correia is barely more than that.

 

The only way having Correia in the rotation over Walters stops the team from losing 100 is if they lose 99 anyway. It's a pretty moot distinction.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes, I'd argue as many paying customers come for him as Kevin Correia. PJ Walters is a replacement level player. Correia is barely more than that.

 

The only way having Correia in the rotation over Walters stops the team from losing 100 is if they lose 99 anyway. It's a pretty moot distinction.

 

Neither one is a draw. I won't argue that. But Correia is a legit MLB player. Walters is not.

[howeda7]

Mediocrity that's a known-quantity has value. That's all Kevin Correia is. I'd rather not have given him 2 years, but it's not a tragedy. His career track is that he'd have an ERA a bit over 4.50 and go about 10-10. He's 8-8 with an ERA of 4.59. To say the Twins have an endless supply of guys in AAA who can do that every year is simply false.