BALT v VIKES 11/9/25

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

You’re not wrong in a way, but if JJM is going to struggle with the weapons and coaching we have, maybe it will be apparent sooner that he’s not the guy than if he were on a terrible team. What stinks is that our coach keeps putting a ton on his shoulders and not helping him by getting away from the run game.

I expected him to play poorly this year. Not this poorly, but not great either. We'll know more at the end of the year. 

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I expected him to play poorly this year. Not this poorly, but not great either. We'll know more at the end of the year. 

And he’s theirs for a few years no matter how he does so it’s gonna be a long ride one way or the other.

[Vanimal46]

I bailed on this game an hour ago and it still looks like the most boring game of the season. 

[TheLeviathan]

15 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Fully agree. He’s had upper echelon coaching since he was 16 or 17 years old. And we’re still talking about basic fundamentals/mechanics with his passes? It’s not like he’s been working with the local HS QB 20 years ago turned social studies teacher. 

Through 4 games you would think he’s flashed a little bit more than he has. 75% of the time he’s been flat out bad out there. It’s entirely possible to have a QB look good right from the get go… But we’re so accustomed to thinking any young talent on a Minnesota sports team has to start out terribly. 

I think it comes down to KOC and the on-field culture of the team.  KOC has said (in preseasons) that he wants the team to be tougher/edgier.  He stated the changes to the interior of the offensive line was a commitment to that.  What does he do up 10-9 with a 3rd and 1 at the 50?  You guessed it - YOLO.  A nearly 4:1 pass to run ratio.

Why did we sign Fries and Kelly, trade for Mason, and draft Jackson if we are allergic to running?  I heard Mackey say it and I'm 100% with him - this team is SAWFT.  The worst kind of offensive culture you can possibly have.

It's why I was such a big advocate of Skattebo.  This team needs to add someone on the playmaking side (preferrably in the backfield) that just wants to purposely run through walls to pick up 2 yards.  Someone who can force KOC to change his own mentality.  I'm starting to think Mason's deficiencies in the passing game (and fumbling) have caused KOC to lose confidence in him and, by extension, the run game.

A team that isn't soft wins that game Sunday.  

[TheLeviathan]

Here's a guy I'm very early on wanting.

Culture changer.

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

You’re not wrong in a way, but if JJM is going to struggle with the weapons and coaching we have, maybe it will be apparent sooner that he’s not the guy than if he were on a terrible team. What stinks is that our coach keeps putting a ton on his shoulders and not helping him by getting away from the run game.

Well, I want to know ASAP if he can do this or not. I'll take the random brain farts that comes with juggling a ton of information if it means we're going to have a better read on the QB situation come Week 18.

The arm is there, and surprisingly to me, the decisiveness is way better than we saw the first two weeks. The biggest issue is the accuracy, which I didn't think was supposed to be a huge problem. I think it needs to quickly be determined if that's who McCarthy is, or if that's plausibly fixed.

Unpopular take here, but my expectations for this season are low, so I'm in the camp of giving him as much as he can handle if only to see if the accuracy and the decision making improve with more and more reps. If this team goes 4-13 because they threw it 40 times a game, but they can make a confident decision about McCarthy, I'll be happier than if they go 8-9 throwing it 20 times per game and still not having a clue.

[Mike Sixel]

15 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Well, I want to know ASAP if he can do this or not. I'll take the random brain farts that comes with juggling a ton of information if it means we're going to have a better read on the QB situation come Week 18.

The arm is there, and surprisingly to me, the decisiveness is way better than we saw the first two weeks. The biggest issue is the accuracy, which I didn't think was supposed to be a huge problem. I think it needs to quickly be determined if that's who McCarthy is, or if that's plausibly fixed.

Unpopular take here, but my expectations for this season are low, so I'm in the camp of giving him as much as he can handle if only to see if the accuracy and the decision making improve with more and more reps. If this team goes 4-13 because they threw it 40 times a game, but they can make a confident decision about McCarthy, I'll be happier than if they go 8-9 throwing it 20 times per game and still not having a clue.

THIS! This is not a SB winning team....learn about McCarthy (though I also want to know if KOC can call a better game, so that's a conflict). 

[TheLeviathan]

17 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Well, I want to know ASAP if he can do this or not. I'll take the random brain farts that comes with juggling a ton of information if it means we're going to have a better read on the QB situation come Week 18.

The arm is there, and surprisingly to me, the decisiveness is way better than we saw the first two weeks. The biggest issue is the accuracy, which I didn't think was supposed to be a huge problem. I think it needs to quickly be determined if that's who McCarthy is, or if that's plausibly fixed.

Unpopular take here, but my expectations for this season are low, so I'm in the camp of giving him as much as he can handle if only to see if the accuracy and the decision making improve with more and more reps. If this team goes 4-13 because they threw it 40 times a game, but they can make a confident decision about McCarthy, I'll be happier than if they go 8-9 throwing it 20 times per game and still not having a clue.

Very few QBs can thrive in a gameplan with 47 throws and 13 runs.  I'm fine pushing him to make bigtime throws, but it should be within the context of a not-insane ratio.  

But I'm with you on development > wins

[gunnarthor]

46 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Well, I want to know ASAP if he can do this or not. I'll take the random brain farts that comes with juggling a ton of information if it means we're going to have a better read on the QB situation come Week 18.

The arm is there, and surprisingly to me, the decisiveness is way better than we saw the first two weeks. The biggest issue is the accuracy, which I didn't think was supposed to be a huge problem. I think it needs to quickly be determined if that's who McCarthy is, or if that's plausibly fixed.

Unpopular take here, but my expectations for this season are low, so I'm in the camp of giving him as much as he can handle if only to see if the accuracy and the decision making improve with more and more reps. If this team goes 4-13 because they threw it 40 times a game, but they can make a confident decision about McCarthy, I'll be happier than if they go 8-9 throwing it 20 times per game and still not having a clue.

This is basically my thoughts as well.

I don't know anything about playing QB at the NFL level (obviously). Kurt Warner said that he was really good because he didn't even see the line, he only saw the coverage and completely ignored the rush. Kept his eyes downfield. But then he started getting hurt, sacks went up, and he said he started looking at the line, seeing where the guy was coming from, rather than watching the coverage. It took him years to fix it, but he did. That's always what I'm most worried about with a QB. Say what you will about Cousins, he stayed in the pocket, took some monster hits, but kept his eyes down field. Wentz had happy feet. So did Ponder. Darnold famously saw ghosts. 

What I like about McCarthy in his few starts is that he doesn't seem scared, he keeps his eyes downfield, and he goes through his progressions reasonably well. He missed on some wide open passes and he had a surprisingly high number of batted balls at the line but those seem fixable. Hearing ghosts, watching the rush rather the routes, those seem like harder things to correct.

[gunnarthor]

36 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

THIS! This is not a SB winning team....learn about McCarthy (though I also want to know if KOC can call a better game, so that's a conflict). 

You're gonna feel really silly when they win the Superbowl in February. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

You're gonna feel really silly when they win the Superbowl in February. 

What year? 😁

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/11/2025 at 10:58 AM, gunnarthor said:

You're gonna feel really silly when they win the Superbowl in February. 

Who's they, and what does this have to do with the Vikings?

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/11/2025 at 10:05 AM, nicksaviking said:

Well, I want to know ASAP if he can do this or not. I'll take the random brain farts that comes with juggling a ton of information if it means we're going to have a better read on the QB situation come Week 18.

The arm is there, and surprisingly to me, the decisiveness is way better than we saw the first two weeks. The biggest issue is the accuracy, which I didn't think was supposed to be a huge problem. I think it needs to quickly be determined if that's who McCarthy is, or if that's plausibly fixed.

Unpopular take here, but my expectations for this season are low, so I'm in the camp of giving him as much as he can handle if only to see if the accuracy and the decision making improve with more and more reps. If this team goes 4-13 because they threw it 40 times a game, but they can make a confident decision about McCarthy, I'll be happier than if they go 8-9 throwing it 20 times per game and still not having a clue.

I agree with your opinion--finding out if JJM could be the future is priority 1--but here's the problem; the roster does not reflect that reality.  Kwesi has built one of the oldest, most expensive rosters in the league thanks to back-to-back FA spending sprees, and handing out extensions to decent but not good/great players. Extensions for Hockenson, Metellus, Oliver, Mason, and Ham have a combined AAV of over $46M--more than enough to have kept Darnold and signed another OL.  This sounds an awful lot like the Vikings had no idea how far away JJM was from being a competent QB when they drafted him, or the Vikings were completely wrong about KOC's ability to turn him into one in short order.

At this point, it is too early to give up, especially because there's no clear option to get better, and because the 2027 draft could be loaded--Sayin and Carr are top options.  It behooves the Vikings to let JJM sink or swim, but if he sinks, it better be someone other than KAM + KOC calling the shot on which QB reboots the franchise in 2027.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/10/2025 at 6:51 AM, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, after about the fifth time that had to cross everyone's mind, so how was it not addressed?

Harbaugh shut this down, as did KOC.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/10/2025 at 9:43 AM, gunnarthor said:

I think KOC is our best coach since at least Denny and I really do think he will win a Superbowl for us. Completely all in on him. But I will say that this year, the Vikings offense seems to be very undisciplined. Lots of pre-snap penalties. Some of it might be JJ's cadence - it's loud and quick and might take a bit of getting used to - and part of it might be the injuries along the line. But I don't like it. 

You keep saying that you think KOC will win a Superbowl--I'm compelled to ask; what makes you think that?  The offense under KOC is statistically worse than under the last 3 years of Zimmer.  22.2 offensive PPG for KOC, 24.9 in the last 3 years of Zimmer; KOC has ranked 12th in offensive PPG since getting here, but Zimmer was 8th in his last 3 years.  And before you bring up QBs, remember that KOC inherited Kirk, and got him for almost 25 games, had Darnold for 17 games, and has now had both JJM and Wentz by choice--he's only had 9 games where he hasn't had either an above average QB or his hand-picked guy.

As for Darnold, a lot of people will want to give KOC credit for his development, and certainly he deserves some, but Darnold has gotten dramatically better this year under the tutelage of...Klint Kubiak and Andrew Janocko, the OC and QB coach KOC did not retain when he became HC.  So if you want to say KOC is great at developing QBs and running an offense, and use Darnold as your evidence, you have to admit that the Vikings had guys on staff even better that they got rid off in favor of KOC.

I see a guy who can put a good not great offense on the field, does not seem to be anything special at developing QBs, and currently has a team that seems soft and undisciplined.  I'm sure we could do worse at HC than KOC, but I just don't understand where the all-in on him as a SB winning coach comes from.  I'd be much more inclined this offseason to jettison KAM and KOC, promote Flores to HC, and hire a bunch of guys from Det, KC, and Bal to run my FO and offense.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I agree with your opinion--finding out if JJM could be the future is priority 1--but here's the problem; the roster does not reflect that reality.  Kwesi has built one of the oldest, most expensive rosters in the league thanks to back-to-back FA spending sprees, and handing out extensions to decent but not good/great players. Extensions for Hockenson, Metellus, Oliver, Mason, and Ham have a combined AAV of over $46M--more than enough to have kept Darnold and signed another OL.  This sounds an awful lot like the Vikings had no idea how far away JJM was from being a competent QB when they drafted him, or the Vikings were completely wrong about KOC's ability to turn him into one in short order.

At this point, it is too early to give up, especially because there's no clear option to get better, and because the 2027 draft could be loaded--Sayin and Carr are top options.  It behooves the Vikings to let JJM sink or swim, but if he sinks, it better be someone other than KAM + KOC calling the shot on which QB reboots the franchise in 2027.

What you described is the single biggest flaw with our “competitive rebuild” strategy. Kwesi and KOC thought they could have it both ways - winning right now and developing basically a rookie QB.

I am willing to bet this is the sole reason for everything feeling off this season. Tensions have been rising because the roster is full of veterans who can’t afford a year or 2 waiting to see if McCarthy is the real deal. 

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

What you described is the single biggest flaw with our “competitive rebuild” strategy. Kwesi and KOC thought they could have it both ways - winning right now and developing basically a rookie QB.

I am willing to bet this is the sole reason for everything feeling off this season. Tensions have been rising because the roster is full of veterans who can’t afford a year or 2 waiting to see if McCarthy is the real deal. 

I don't think Kwesi had a choice on "competitive rebuild".

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think Kwesi had a choice on "competitive rebuild".

Then he should have been better at it, because the signings this year mostly suck and the drafts....

[Cap'n Piranha]

5 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think Kwesi had a choice on "competitive rebuild".

He did have a choice.  The choice was to tell the Wilfs that they weren't being realistic about the state of the team, and if they wanted him to take the job, he needed to be given some latitude to make long-term decisions.  If the Wilfs demurred, he could have said "thanks for the time, best of luck on your search" and waited for the next opening; it's not like NFL GM jobs don't come open rather frequently.

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think Kwesi had a choice on "competitive rebuild".

The strategy is pushed down from the Wilfs for sure… But they both have full autonomy to sign and draft the players. KOC without question had the authority to choose the people in the QB room and he really screwed it up this season. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Then he should have been better at it, because the signings this year mostly suck and the drafts....

Yup.  He bet on himself, and right now, it looks like he's losing.  Despite all of that, if he merely keeps Darnold instead of letting KOC have his "I'm Keith Hernandez" moment, the team might be 6-3, or even 7-2 (you can argue even competent QB play would have turned PIT, PHI, and BAL into wins).

Alternatively, if KOC wanted Darnold, and KAM said no because he wanted to dive into FA, and was locked into that because of poor drafts and foolish extensions...then KAM very clearly is not a good GM, and while that in no way makes him a bad person, it does make him a bad employee.

[TheLeviathan]

23 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The strategy is pushed down from the Wilfs for sure… But they both have full autonomy to sign and draft the players. KOC without question had the authority to choose the people in the QB room and he really screwed it up this season. 

That isn't an excuse for poor drafting, but I just wanted to be clear that I'm not sure the strategy rests at his feet.

Another way to say that, I'm not sure what we'd see Kwesi do if the ownership mandate wasn't a competitive rebuild.  He might have blown things up from the get-go.  I don't know because I'm pretty confident he didn't call the shot on team strategy.  He called the shot on player acquisitions within that strategy and so far it's been bad (drafting) and solid (free agency).

[TheLeviathan]

30 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Then he should have been better at it, because the signings this year mostly suck and the drafts....

He chose to take the job (and anyone asserting he could just pass on it is being purposely obtuse.  Of course he's going to take what might be a once in a lifetime opportunity), but the mandate wasn't his.  His execution of it, however, is on him.  For Free Agency I give him a solid B while he's probably in F territory for drafting.

[gunnarthor]

Man, football fans are just the worst. On the Pride of Detroit, fans were claiming their window was closed after the Vikings lost. Kinda fun to read when its not your team. As for the Vikings,

1) Kwesi's drafts aren't nearly as bad as people want to claim. Yes, Cline and Booth didn't work out but Cline's ankle also popped out of his skin. Ingram and Nailor were good picks from that draft. The next year we got Addison, Hockinson and Blackmon (who looks like we should have kept). I know some people want to claim Turner a bust but he's second on the team in pressures and playing pretty solid overall and JJ has played exactly four games. Jackson seems like a pretty good guard already and Mason should be used more. Late round picks like TID, Ward, and Rodriguez are part of the defensive rotation already, and Reichard is a really good kicker, We've also acquired good cheap talent like Redmond, Pace, and Jackson that no one wants to credit. I think it's also worth remembering that fans soured on Spielman despite good drafts b/c he sucked in free agency and putting together a cohesive plan for the team. Now we have a GM who seems to have a real plan, has implemented it, makes moves quickly to adjust, and who specializes in cap management and fans are still freaking out. We're fine. 

2) JJ looks good. For all the years of fans claiming Cousins wasn't as good as his elite numbers showed, it would have been nice if the same fanbase could see the obvious talent that JJ has shown. He was not the reason we lost to the Ravens, he played well. Watching him, you can see that he has the talent to be an elite QB and he's getting there quickly. As long as he stays healthy, we will be fine. That doesn't mean he won't have hiccups. His first interception was a bad throw. He got lucky he didn't throw another pick to Smith late in the game. But the arm and decision-making look good for a 22 year old QB with four starts under him. He needs reps and needs to stay healthy.

3) Claims like the locker room is divided and tensions are rising is just utter unsupported BS. There is no sign of that at all. The team hasn't quit. There is no one pointing fingers or going off in the media. Culture-wise, KOC and Kwesi have built something pretty good. 

4) We're 4-5 despite a brutal opening schedule and having our starting QB miss five games. 2-0 in the division with both wins on the road. Hopefully we're going to be 6-5 in two weeks and 4-0 in the division. There is no elite team in the NFC right now. We should have beaten Philly and we beat Detroit on the road. This team is good enough to beat anyone in the NFC.

[Cap'n Piranha]

34 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Man, football fans are just the worst. On the Pride of Detroit, fans were claiming their window was closed after the Vikings lost. Kinda fun to read when its not your team. As for the Vikings,

1) Kwesi's drafts aren't nearly as bad as people want to claim. Yes, Cline and Booth didn't work out but Cline's ankle also popped out of his skin. Ingram and Nailor were good picks from that draft. The next year we got Addison, Hockinson and Blackmon (who looks like we should have kept). I know some people want to claim Turner a bust but he's second on the team in pressures and playing pretty solid overall and JJ has played exactly four games. Jackson seems like a pretty good guard already and Mason should be used more. Late round picks like TID, Ward, and Rodriguez are part of the defensive rotation already, and Reichard is a really good kicker, We've also acquired good cheap talent like Redmond, Pace, and Jackson that no one wants to credit. I think it's also worth remembering that fans soured on Spielman despite good drafts b/c he sucked in free agency and putting together a cohesive plan for the team. Now we have a GM who seems to have a real plan, has implemented it, makes moves quickly to adjust, and who specializes in cap management and fans are still freaking out. We're fine. 

2) JJ looks good. For all the years of fans claiming Cousins wasn't as good as his elite numbers showed, it would have been nice if the same fanbase could see the obvious talent that JJ has shown. He was not the reason we lost to the Ravens, he played well. Watching him, you can see that he has the talent to be an elite QB and he's getting there quickly. As long as he stays healthy, we will be fine. That doesn't mean he won't have hiccups. His first interception was a bad throw. He got lucky he didn't throw another pick to Smith late in the game. But the arm and decision-making look good for a 22 year old QB with four starts under him. He needs reps and needs to stay healthy.

3) Claims like the locker room is divided and tensions are rising is just utter unsupported BS. There is no sign of that at all. The team hasn't quit. There is no one pointing fingers or going off in the media. Culture-wise, KOC and Kwesi have built something pretty good. 

4) We're 4-5 despite a brutal opening schedule and having our starting QB miss five games. 2-0 in the division with both wins on the road. Hopefully we're going to be 6-5 in two weeks and 4-0 in the division. There is no elite team in the NFC right now. We should have beaten Philly and we beat Detroit on the road. This team is good enough to beat anyone in the NFC.

Man, so much wrong with this.

1--Cine wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before he got hurt.  You can't just give him a mulligan for that, even if it's not his fault.  Ingram is not on the team, and was not good when he was.  Blackmon is not on the team, and was not good when he was.  Nailor had a nice game on Sunday, but in 4 years and 49 games, he's touched the ball 63 times.  He's played 1,112 snaps, and only been targeted 97 times. The only thing making him a good pick is that he was a 6th rounder.  Forgive me if I want more out of my GM than an ability to find serviceable 3rd WRs in the 6th round.  Turner is a bust because of where they drafted him, and how much they gave up to do that--they essentially traded a mid-1st rounder for the privelege of using another 1st rounder to draft him.  He has 12 pressures in 9 games, which puts him 49th in the NFL, and the only reason he's that high is because there's quite a few guys with 10 or 11 that haven't played 9 games, and Turner got a bunch of starts with AVG out he otherwise would not have gotten.  I'll give you Jackson has promise, Reichard is a great kicker, and Addison has been a quality receiver (who will probably be traded), and some other guys are rotational pieces; that's a good drafting record?  4 years, and it's possible all we'll have to show for it is a promising guard, a great kicker, and some rotational pieces?

KAM's so-called plan is also terrible--if the idea was to load up on veteran, expensive players to push for a title, why did he draft a developmental QB, and then double down by letting a sure-thing quality QB walk?  His cap management is also terrible--he spent 2 years freeing up cap space, sure...and then immediately spent it all on foolish extensions and multiple FA signings to the point where the Vikings are dead last in cap space for next year, and will potentially (depending on where the cap lands) need to cut/restructure deals just to sign their draft class, let alone improve the team in FA.  If that's cap management specialization, I'd hate to see what happens to someone who's bad at the cap

2--JJ looks good?  He's worse than all qualified QBs in completion %, Int %, Rating, On Target % and ANY/A, 26th in Y/A, 32nd in success rate, 30th in Y/Game, 35th in sack rate, 33rd in Bad Throw.  He's legitimately one of the worst QBs in the NFL, including other young QBs like Dart, Ward, Gabriel, and Penix.  He was statistically worse against the Ravens than his full season numbers, other than a better Int rate and Sack rate.  You seem to confuse arm power with arm talent and even beyond that QB talent.  I'm not saying he can't get better, or even become elite, but this idea that he's on his way, and to use your words, "get there quickly" is just an asinine statement.

3--Agree there's no hard evidence that the team is getting upset with JJM, but the way JJ acted on Sunday was concerning.  As for the culture--when multiple people are saying the team is soft and mistake-prone, and not just on this board, that doesn't seem like a good culture.

4--The Vikings had the easiest schedule through week 6 of any team in the NFL.  They now have had the 7th hardest schedule in the NFL, but are projected to have the 6th hardest the rest of the way, so there's no schedule relief coming.  JJM missing games was actually a good thing for winning--the offense scored more points with Wentz at QB, and Wentz was statistically better than JJM at pretty much everything.

I honestly just am at a loss for your continued to refusal to live anywhere near reality as regards the Vikings.  Being optimistic is one thing, but you're the living embodiment of the "This is Fine" meme at this point.

[Cap'n Piranha]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

He chose to take the job (and anyone asserting he could just pass on it is being purposely obtuse.  Of course he's going to take what might be a once in a lifetime opportunity), but the mandate wasn't his.  His execution of it, however, is on him.  For Free Agency I give him a solid B while he's probably in F territory for drafting.

Plenty of people pass on "once in a lifetime opportunities" based on the timing not being right, or the situation not being right.  Coaches often get second chances at HC jobs, so I understand taking that shot.  GMs do not.  If you fail as a GM and get fired after 4 years, you're pretty much done in football outside of being a special assistant or contributor to a website.  When the once in a lifetime shot is one time only, plenty of people will want to maximize that.

[gunnarthor]

I thought this was a good article on JJ through four games.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/general/92758/insight-into-j-j-mccarthys-performance-after-four-games

 

[TheLeviathan]

16 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Man, football fans are just the worst. On the Pride of Detroit, fans were claiming their window was closed after the Vikings lost. Kinda fun to read when its not your team. As for the Vikings,

1) Kwesi's drafts aren't nearly as bad as people want to claim. Yes, Cline and Booth didn't work out but Cline's ankle also popped out of his skin. Ingram and Nailor were good picks from that draft. The next year we got Addison, Hockinson and Blackmon (who looks like we should have kept). I know some people want to claim Turner a bust but he's second on the team in pressures and playing pretty solid overall and JJ has played exactly four games. Jackson seems like a pretty good guard already and Mason should be used more. Late round picks like TID, Ward, and Rodriguez are part of the defensive rotation already, and Reichard is a really good kicker, We've also acquired good cheap talent like Redmond, Pace, and Jackson that no one wants to credit. I think it's also worth remembering that fans soured on Spielman despite good drafts b/c he sucked in free agency and putting together a cohesive plan for the team. Now we have a GM who seems to have a real plan, has implemented it, makes moves quickly to adjust, and who specializes in cap management and fans are still freaking out. We're fine. 

2) JJ looks good. For all the years of fans claiming Cousins wasn't as good as his elite numbers showed, it would have been nice if the same fanbase could see the obvious talent that JJ has shown. He was not the reason we lost to the Ravens, he played well. Watching him, you can see that he has the talent to be an elite QB and he's getting there quickly. As long as he stays healthy, we will be fine. That doesn't mean he won't have hiccups. His first interception was a bad throw. He got lucky he didn't throw another pick to Smith late in the game. But the arm and decision-making look good for a 22 year old QB with four starts under him. He needs reps and needs to stay healthy.

3) Claims like the locker room is divided and tensions are rising is just utter unsupported BS. There is no sign of that at all. The team hasn't quit. There is no one pointing fingers or going off in the media. Culture-wise, KOC and Kwesi have built something pretty good. 

4) We're 4-5 despite a brutal opening schedule and having our starting QB miss five games. 2-0 in the division with both wins on the road. Hopefully we're going to be 6-5 in two weeks and 4-0 in the division. There is no elite team in the NFC right now. We should have beaten Philly and we beat Detroit on the road. This team is good enough to beat anyone in the NFC.

Our schedule isn't getting much easier.  This is the reality of winning the division last year.  But the biggest thing is not the losses but the way they are losing.  Baltimore and Philly were winnable games.  Pitt too.  Yes, this team can beat anyone....but they can also look like absolute dog crap for huge stretches of games.  It's a problem.  I don't know if it's a culture issue among players but I do put two big declarations down:

1) This team plays cute.  It plays soft.  It isn't trying to snatch your soul or pummel you into submission.  It's trying to cute it's way to victory every week.  I'm all for taking big shots and being creative....but at the end of the day football is won in the trenches.  We are, by way of our football/play-calling/attitude culture, conceding the trenches.  That's a problem.

2) I just don't know why it's so hard for you to admit that the drafts have been a disaster.  Two entire draft classes are completely non-impactful for this roster.  Hockenson wasn't a bad idea...but you don't pay 28M, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 4th for a blocking TE.  One with knee problems 7and who appears to have lost all his juice.  That move failed.  Ingram aint here.  Blackmon ain't here.  They completely wasted basically all of 2022 and 2023.  We were number 12 in the 2022 draft and we walked away with NOTHING.  We passed on Kyle Hamilton.  Trent McDuffie.  Tyler Lindbaum.  George Karlaftis.  I could go on.  It was an absolute disaster.  2023 was barely better.  

By my count Kwesi has been on the clock 28 times.  In those 28 times he has walked away with only 12 players who are still on this roster.  Less than half!  Of those twelve we have one special teamer (Ward), two backup offensive linemen they are moving Brandel around to avoid having to play, a WR they traded picks to supplant with a washed Adam Thielen, and a backup TE.

Which means in 28 picks Kwesi has given us  guys who actually see playing time: Turner (who isn't good at this point), McCarthy (who basically hasn't played), Jackson at LG, Reichard, LDR, Addison, and Nailor.  That's it.  

I don't know how else to convince you that the results suck.

[gunnarthor]

Here's another review of JJ. I thought it was interesting that the first thing he said was that the Ravens did a good job on pressing our receivers. I thought Jefferson was upset about how much contact was not being called. 

 

[gunnarthor]

13 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

 

I don't know how else to convince you that the results suck.

Because it's sample bias. His results are probably pretty normal especially when you look at how many of the Viking picks have been in the top three rounds v. the bottom of the draft. As well as ignoring bringing in talent the other way. The anti-Kwesi crowd is simply insane for whatever reason they have to dislike him but results have been very good - 38-22. So the idea that his drafts suck are the last refugee but it's always in a vacuum, ignoring draft results, development, trades, injuries, team position, and importance of the draft in building a team.