non-Vikings NFL off season news

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

That's fair.  I guess I'd just say there isn't much job security in fielding a middling roster, with a middling QB making 50M a year either.

The Steelers definitely have shown in some instances you can have job security if you can manage to just be an average team and never a bad team.

But I don't think the Yorks are anything like the Rooneys. Harbaugh got fired after a more impressive run than Shanahan just went through. This should be really interesting to watch unfold. 

Waaaaaaaay too early prediction, but I'm saying that Shanahan is coaching the Giants next year. And he's NOT going to want Jaxson Dart.

[TheLeviathan]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The Steelers definitely have shown in some instances you can have job security if you can manage to just be an average team and never a bad team.

But I don't think the Yorks are anything like the Rooneys. Harbaugh got fired after a more impressive run than Shanahan just went through. This should be really interesting to watch unfold. 

Waaaaaaaay too early prediction, but I'm saying that Shanahan is coaching the Giants next year. And he's NOT going to want Jaxson Dart.

Pittsburgh operates on a completely different level on job security.  They accept that, I can't think of a single other franchise who would.

I think Shanahan has two years left, but the gloss is off and SF is about to implode.  So I'm with you on the general vibe of that prediction.

Their 11ish over/under for wins this year feels like free money on the under.

[nicksaviking]

11 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Pittsburgh operates on a completely different level on job security.  They accept that, I can't think of a single other franchise who would.

Here's a link to a fan sight that would happily keep the status quo if their team finished no lower or no higher than .500 for 100 years straight:

https://twinsdaily.com/

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Here's a link to a fan sight that would happily keep the status quo if their team finished no lower or no higher than .500 for 100 years straight:

https://twinsdaily.com/

Heh, in fairness I was referring to ownership.

Which in our case isn't so much about loyalty but about pinching pennies.  

[Mike Sixel]

Sigh. Tush push is still legal. 

[gunnarthor]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sigh. Tush push is still legal. 

Good. I think it's good for the game. I'm more concerned about BS "arm moving forward, no fumble" calls for QBs. 

[gunnarthor]

The NFL is still decades in the past. "After Lurie finished speaking, Vincent chastised the Eagles owner for the "wet dream" comment, specifically for saying it in front of women in the meeting."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45254735/sources-tempers-flare-eagles-defend-tush-push-heated-debate 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

Good. I think it's good for the game. I'm more concerned about BS "arm moving forward, no fumble" calls for QBs. 

Yeah, I don't like it.  I think if you're going to let Rugby scrums happen like that you're going to need to consider other rule changes to balance that out.  

For example - there is no pass play audible in Rugby.  If you're going to tush push, you should have to declare it and allow the defense to adjust.  Also, in Rugby, the defense can link arms in order to push back.  

Right now it's heavily imbalanced, due to football rules, towards the offense.  I'm not a proponent of any concept (offense or defense) standing if it has a significant imbalanced advantage.

[gunnarthor]

59 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Yeah, I don't like it.  I think if you're going to let Rugby scrums happen like that you're going to need to consider other rule changes to balance that out.  

For example - there is no pass play audible in Rugby.  If you're going to tush push, you should have to declare it and allow the defense to adjust.  Also, in Rugby, the defense can link arms in order to push back.  

Right now it's heavily imbalanced, due to football rules, towards the offense.  I'm not a proponent of any concept (offense or defense) standing if it has a significant imbalanced advantage.

Ignoring the tush push itself - which I like more than you - the rule change might have made the game a bit less fun. The proposed rule would have forbidden down field "blocks" by lineman where they push the running back forward, which we've seen a lot and is also a lot of fun (in my view). 

As to the imbalance, I mean, yeah, you're right. But there is a lot of stuff that is imbalances the game for the offense - the NFL is doing that purposefully. Staffords "incomplete pass" in the playoff game that was really a fumble we returned for a TD is a much bigger problem (again, in my view). 

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Ignoring the tush push itself - which I like more than you - the rule change might have made the game a bit less fun. The proposed rule would have forbidden down field "blocks" by lineman where they push the running back forward, which we've seen a lot and is also a lot of fun (in my view). 

As to the imbalance, I mean, yeah, you're right. But there is a lot of stuff that is imbalances the game for the offense - the NFL is doing that purposefully. Staffords "incomplete pass" in the playoff game that was really a fumble we returned for a TD is a much bigger problem (again, in my view). 

I would like all those blatent imbalances to end.  Including pushing downfield.

If the offense claims forward progress, they shouldn't also get to shove a guy whose progress is ending.

Rules shouldn't be this lopsided.

[DocBauer]

I think it's fair to question any sort of "push" in regard to the rules. 

But forever, if a ball carrier is churning legs and still moving forward, even in incremental inches/feet, and the defenders are crowding said ball carrier, isn't it OK for an offensive player to block/push against the defenders? 

Said ball carrier might pop out of the scrum, or power his way to a 1st down. OR, on the negative side of things, said ball carrier might be stripped of the ball in a struggle and fumble the ball or have it stripped. 

But IMO, there is a difference between an offensive player helping "block" and push a pile on an active play vs a DESIGNED play where the QB is DELIBERATELY pushed forward by a teammate. One instance is part of an active, current play in the field, and the other is a pre-planned push behind the ball carrier.

To me that's a distinct difference. In abstract theory, you could have a 300 pounder grab the QB and toss him over the line of scrimmage. I mean, that's a bizarre example of course, but an extreme example of what wouldn't be allowed. Special teams have rules where you can't leap on a teammate to attempt to penetrate or block a kick. Aren't these somewhat similar?

I don't like a deliberate push of the QB to attempt a 1st down. There are rules of WR blocking too early on screens to the outside. But it's OK to push a QB forward? I feel it isn't in the spirit of how the game should be played. QB sneak, hand it off, throw a quick pass, use a bruiser at FB, etc, but I'm not a fan of "blocking" for the QB behind as a designed play.

[TheLeviathan]

If it's legal to push a pile forward for extra yards, the defense should get the same perk.   Let's allow a LB to carry some slot receiver five yards back.

Concept is the same.

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

If it's legal to push a pile forward for extra yards, the defense should get the same perk.   Let's allow a LB to carry some slot receiver five yards back.

Concept is the same.

And get rid of forward progress? 😀

[nicksaviking]

First time I saw the tush push I said that's completely illegal. I had no idea the NFL had quietly removed the flag for pushing a player a few years earlier, but I distinctly remembered Matt Birk getting flagged for pushing Robert Smith into the endzone back in the day. So I always thought the tush push was BS.

I think it should be banned, but I don't like the narrative that it's basically all a way to stop the Eagles. It instead should be framed as it being too perfunctory of a play. If it's successful at say a 90% rate, you just compare it to when you used to kick extra points at the seven yard line. Any play that is so easy to execute isn't reflective of a professional sport. Anyway, that's how I'd argue it.

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

And get rid of forward progress? 😀

Hell yeah, let's play by the same rules on both sides of the ball then!  I'm really sick of the general frame of mind for NFL rules is "It's ok for me (offense) but not for thee (defense)"

Personally, I'd whistle all plays dead when foreward momentum has stopped and outlaw any player pushing a ball-carrier.  Allow foreward progress, but disallow the offense to push.

[Vanimal46]

Holy cow that’s a huge loss for the Lions 

[nicksaviking]

30 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Holy cow that’s a huge loss for the Lions 

Yeah, a lot of coaching turnover for the Lions and now Ragnow is gone along with Zeitler who left in free agency.

Really feels like in 2025 is going to dictate the narrative for Dan Campbell going forward. Personally, I'm getting Doug Pederson vibes. Ten or 11 wins next season followed by Detroit's quick submersion back into being a perennially subpar team.

[gunnarthor]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, a lot of coaching turnover for the Lions and now Ragnow is gone along with Zeitler who left in free agency.

Really feels like in 2025 is going to dictate the narrative for Dan Campbell going forward. Personally, I'm getting Doug Pederson vibes. Ten or 11 wins next season followed by Detroit's quick submersion back into being a perennially subpar team.

I hope so.

I don't know if Ragnow can be underrated considering his accomplishments but, geez, I'm glad he's gone. Best of luck to him on his retirement, hope his body heals. 

[Parfigliano]

43 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, a lot of coaching turnover for the Lions and now Ragnow is gone along with Zeitler who left in free agency.

Really feels like in 2025 is going to dictate the narrative for Dan Campbell going forward. Personally, I'm getting Doug Pederson vibes. Ten or 11 wins next season followed by Detroit's quick submersion back into being a perennially subpar team.

I approve this message.

[gunnarthor]

Former Gopher and 1st round pick Rashod Bateman signed a 3 year extension with the Ravens for 3/36m, basically 12m/season, 20m guaranteed for a receiver who is a solid deep threat but hasn't had a 1000 yard season yet. Addison is quite happy with this.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45456848/source-ravens-give-wr-rashod-bateman-3-year-3675m-extension

[Vanimal46]

OTA’s must be over for Pittsburgh because Rodgers finally signed a 1 year deal today. 

[The Great Hambino]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

OTA’s must be over for Pittsburgh because Rodgers finally signed a 1 year deal today. 

I bet Dianna Russini still insists that Rodgers will end up on the Vikings

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

I bet Dianna Russini still insists that Rodgers will end up on the Vikings

She took a big L this offseason for sure. 

I’m sure Rodgers has a darkness retreat in Egypt already scheduled for July and August so he’ll miss training camp too 

[Vanimal46]

As expected, attendance and TV ratings took a dive in year 2 of the UFL. How many more times do we need to confirm that no one cares to watch poor quality football with NFL castoffs?

So I have an another proposal for the UFL… 4 NFL teams combine their practice squads together to create an 8 team minor league operation. The 8 teams play a 10-12 game schedule which begins after NFL rosters are finalized. 

Play the games sometime in the middle of the week in the fall, and you’ll probably catch the interest of fans who want to see their development guys playing real snaps. 

[Mike Sixel]

I hope Pittsburgh loses every game. 

[Vanimal46]

Calling it now. Tomlin’s gonna lose his mind and this will be the last year he is HC in Pittsburgh 

[The Great Hambino]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

As expected, attendance and TV ratings took a dive in year 2 of the UFL. How many more times do we need to confirm that no one cares to watch poor quality football with NFL castoffs?

So I have an another proposal for the UFL… 4 NFL teams combine their practice squads together to create an 8 team minor league operation. The 8 teams play a 10-12 game schedule which begins after NFL rosters are finalized. 

Play the games sometime in the middle of the week in the fall, and you’ll probably catch the interest of fans who want to see their development guys playing real snaps. 

I don't know if it would work to play during the season - teams do need their practice squads for practice, after all - but creating an official affiliate system for practice squads or guys on future contracts or something could work and would certainly give more fans a vested interest in the league.  Partnering with the NFL is probably the only path to long-term stability.  At least there aren't two leagues trying to compete with each other anymore.

I would keep it in the spring/summer because of a) the aforementioned practice conflict and b) the tv networks funding this operation I believe are doing so because it's cheap inventory during a relatively slower part of the sports calendar.  I don't know if they have the same appetite for that kind of programming in the fall.

[Vanimal46]

10 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

Partnering with the NFL is probably the only path to long-term stability.

Not probably, it’s the only path one of these leagues can survive. The Kyle Sloters of the world won’t bring eyes to your product. So the UFL, XFL, or whoever wants to pop up in the future shouldn’t compete against the NFL for players. Unless they have unlimited money to burn at the beginning 

[The Great Hambino]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Not probably, it’s the only path one of these leagues can survive. The Kyle Sloters of the world won’t bring eyes to your product. So the UFL, XFL, or whoever wants to pop up in the future shouldn’t compete against the NFL for players. Unless they have unlimited money to burn at the beginning 

Hello, PIFFL!  I hear Riyadh is lovely in June

[gunnarthor]

12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Calling it now. Tomlin’s gonna lose his mind and this will be the last year he is HC in Pittsburgh 

Nah, they'll go 11-6 and win a wildcard game this year. Actually, if you squint, you could see a way for them to be even better but I don't like Rodgers.