AAA abandoning the ABS for all strike/ball calls

[jorgenswest]

From ESPN

Quote

Major League Baseball sent a memo to farm directors Tuesday indicating that beginning on June 25, all Triple-A games will use the automated ball-strike (ABS) challenge system as opposed to full ABS

[jorgenswest]

Is this a step backwards from the full ABS that some have hoped would bring consistency or a step closer to having a limited challenge system in the majors? Maybe both. It is probably an acknowledgement that the full ABS as implemented in AAA was not working as hoped.

It would be good to fix the obviously bad calls assuming a team utilizes their challenges well. 

[Doctor Gast]

42 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Is this a step backwards from the full ABS that some have hoped would bring consistency or a step closer to having a limited challenge system in the majors? Maybe both. It is probably an acknowledgement that the full ABS as implemented in AAA was not working as hoped.

It would be good to fix the obviously bad calls assuming a team utilizes their challenges well. 

What I discovered about the limited challenge system is #1) the umps don't like to be challenged, inadvertently they tend to get even (human nature.) #2) it takes up time #3) It's up to the batter to quickly call it & they tend to blow the team's chances too quickly.

To repeal the full ABS & sticking with the limited challenge isn't much better than full non-ABS. If the big teams benefitted from the ABS system, it'd be approved a long time ago. But they benefitted from human error therefore dragging of their feet & try to convince us it's more romantic to have umps call balls & strikes then demonize them.

[jkcarew]

I mean…the ABS strike zone seems to be significantly smaller (particularly, more narrow) than the MLB strike zone GENERALLY is called.

Don’t know really what that will mean. But, if we’re headed there…you’d think the league would first make an effort to reduce the tendency for current umps to give the strike on balls 2 (and more) inches outside the zone. Otherwise, it’s going to be a jarring change if/when full ABS comes.

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

What I discovered about the limited challenge system is #1) the umps don't like to be challenged, inadvertently they tend to get even (human nature.) #2) it takes up time #3) It's up to the batter to quickly call it & they tend to blow the team's chances too quickly.

The ABS wasn’t perfect and not a 3D zone but I wonder if can come back in some form. There is an area on the edges of the zone where ABS isn’t reliable. Most of the calls that don’t match the zone on TV are pretty close. Leave those be. There are a few that are not close. It would be nice if the tech could inform the umpire to reverse those calls. That doesn’t need to take much time. There is no one to get even with. The emotion of the batter doesn’t play a factor.

[Mike Sixel]

I despise the challenge system.... Sigh. 

[nicksaviking]

19 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

What I discovered about the limited challenge system is #1) the umps don't like to be challenged, inadvertently they tend to get even (human nature.) #2) it takes up time #3) It's up to the batter to quickly call it & they tend to blow the team's chances too quickly.

To repeal the full ABS & sticking with the limited challenge isn't much better than full non-ABS. If the big teams benefitted from the ABS system, it'd be approved a long time ago. But they benefitted from human error therefore dragging of their feet & try to convince us it's more romantic to have umps call balls & strikes then demonize them.

I'm not sure that this is always true, but the perception is absolutely a problem.

An umpire getting it wrong can and does lead to wild speculation regarding the intent. Does he hate my team? Does he hate the player? Is he on the take? Likely none of that is true, but the possibility damages the game.

Unfortunately, it appears computer errors still occur, but they are less frequent and it's understood to just be a mathematical mistake. Unless it's Skynet.

[Doctor Gast]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not sure that this is always true, but the perception is absolutely a problem.

An umpire getting it wrong can and does lead to wild speculation regarding the intent. Does he hate my team? Does he hate the player? Is he on the take? Likely none of that is true, but the possibility damages the game.

Unfortunately, it appears computer errors still occur, but they are less frequent and it's understood to just be a mathematical mistake. Unless it's Skynet.

#1) the umps don't like to be challenged, inadvertently they tend to get even (human nature.) 

I heard from someone that when a team challenges an ump & they reach their limit of challenges they tend to go the other way on close calls. I'm not insinuating any serious like that there is any hate of team or player or any on the take or even any malcontent. Only something that is inadvertently done.

[Doctor Gast]

19 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

The ABS wasn’t perfect and not a 3D zone but I wonder if can come back in some form. There is an area on the edges of the zone where ABS isn’t reliable. Most of the calls that don’t match the zone on TV are pretty close. Leave those be. There are a few that are not close. It would be nice if the tech could inform the umpire to reverse those calls. That doesn’t need to take much time. There is no one to get even with. The emotion of the batter doesn’t play a factor.

IMO the ABS system doesn't need to be 3D. A 2D screen that's located at the center of the plate. That location could be adjusted depending if the batter likes to stand in the front part of the box or in the back. To me it seems pretty direct. Are you saying there have been some computer problems? Yeah, if there is any errors in the system they should be able to overturn them. I guess I had some difficulty understanding exactly what you meant at the end.

[Dman]

For the most part I liked the challenge system in the games I saw.  The challenges were quick (ten seconds or so) and in most cases the umpire won anyway.  The ones they lost were very close within less than half an inch most times.  I think its a way to keep the umpire honest and the players less upset as calls get confirmed.  Honestly it feels like three challenges might not be enough and or I think if all used they should at least get one more challenge for the 9th inning. 

I think the biggest thing it helps with is correcting potential egregious calls. Sometimes you aren't setup right and miss a call and the challenge system can make it right. An umpire doesn't want to get overruled by the system and look bad so it creates incentive to call a better game IMO.  If players aren't bothered enough by calls to challenge them then they were close enough anyway. 

Honestly if the umpires are as good as the games I saw I wouldn't' t mind if they gave more challenges like one per inning or something. I think if the umpire is right most of the time they would quit challenging anyway. As I said above I think it also helps players get less frustrated when a call is confirmed or over turned in their favor as they have some control to make sure the call is correct.

IMO it seems like a nice compromise and something that could make its way to Major League Baseball sooner than total ABS. It gives both sides more control with a way to make really bad calls right.

[jorgenswest]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

IMO the ABS system doesn't need to be 3D. A 2D screen that's located at the center of the plate. That location could be adjusted depending if the batter likes to stand in the front part of the box or in the back. To me it seems pretty direct. Are you saying there have been some computer problems? Yeah, if there is any errors in the system they should be able to overturn them. I guess I had some difficulty understanding exactly what you meant at the end.

At the end I was trying to address your very valid concerns about the challenge system.

If it is a 2D system it will be a disadvantage to pitchers with more movement whose balls either fall out of the strike zone prior to the selected 2D plane or enter the strike zone after the 2D plane. I don’t think it would be good for baseball to disadvantage pitchers with such good movement and pinpoint control that they can capture a just small part of the 3D zone.

[JD-TWINS]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:10 PM, jkcarew said:

I mean…the ABS strike zone seems to be significantly smaller (particularly, more narrow) than the MLB strike zone GENERALLY is called.

Don’t know really what that will mean. But, if we’re headed there…you’d think the league would first make an effort to reduce the tendency for current umps to give the strike on balls 2 (and more) inches outside the zone. Otherwise, it’s going to be a jarring change if/when full ABS comes.

When I watch games the problem (to me) is side to side. The plate is stationary and is always 17” wide……with the width of the ball - it should be considered 19-20” wide. It’s STATIC though……shouldn’t fluctuate based on where the umpire sets up!!!

Guy’s up/down zone fluctuates with varying stances and the variation in physical make-up of the players. I can see the real potential for some missed pitches up & down and can live with that.

Balls being called that are over the plate on the edge away from the umpire OR a pitch 3” inside being called a strike because that’s where the ump was set-up is tough to watch repeatedly.