Is a Twins player wiki appealing to some of you?

[Brock Beauchamp]

We've been floating this idea around for years now but it always seemed so cumbersome and difficult that we never went anywhere with it.

Well, my slate is mostly open this winter and I'm interested in taking a longer look at the mechanics of such a thing.

What I'm envisioning is a community-generated player page for Twins players. We'd start with zero and any of you hankering to start a page for a player could do so. These pages would include a short bio, user-uploaded images, and would automate links to all Twins Daily content that has that player tagged in it (news, videos, user blogs, forum topics, etc). We could throw in user excerpts of interactions they've had with the player, the sky is really the limit on what we can put on the page.

In essence, we'd build a "player hub" for each player. If you want to find all of Twins Daily's content on Byron Buxton (plus his bio information), you'd just hit Byron Buxton's player page.

But NO STATS. Stats are their own separate issue and we don't want to replicate/compete with B-Ref; they do a better job of that than we ever could. We'd probably include a B-Ref link to the player's page should anyone wish to check their stats.

Is this something some of you would be interested in participating in? Is it a fun project? I just want to hear what you think of the idea and open a conversation about it.

Maybe include some kind of system where if one of you users edits a page, you get points for it and can use those points for... stuff. I don't know, sponsoring your favorite player's page or a t-shirt or something. I don't know. I have a pretty good grasp on the technical aspect of this but haven't quite figured out what interests all of you in participating in the project.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm a lot more interested in this for prospects. I was just thing about this. I also would like some kind of ranking page, with links to individual stuff. Somehow summarize national rankings, staff rankings, and votes by us. But really, links to info about them all would be great. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

35 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm a lot more interested in this for prospects. I was just thing about this. I also would like some kind of ranking page, with links to individual stuff. Somehow summarize national rankings, staff rankings, and votes by us. But really, links to info about them all would be great. 

This would also include prospects. The long-term goal would be mainly from the prospect side of things; creating a player page when they're in the low minors and watching that page grow and evolve through a MLB career.

But also having a player page for someone like Greg Gagne would be kinda fun, too. I don't think it needs to be limited in this capacity.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This would also include prospects. The long-term goal would be mainly from the prospect side of things; creating a player page when they're in the low minors and watching that page grow and evolve through a MLB career.

But also having a player page for someone like Greg Gagne would be kinda fun, too. I don't think it needs to be limited in this capacity.

Sure, was just giving my opinion on what I want, which should be your main goal.....

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Thanks, Brock. I think this is a good idea, with caveats.

I would worry about emotions subbing for content. Stuff like “Walkler Jenkins,is teh greatest p;ropect the Twins in like Forever!!1”

Speaking for myself, I would probably go back to just Google to look for info, if I went to a player’s wiki page and ran into that.

So that is over the top, but then there is the more subtle stuff, which I admit I can be guilty of doing. I have said some things in the discussion forums that maybe have not crossed the line, but that I would not want to say as a contributor to a wiki.

The lesser known stuff would be fun to explore and have access to in one place, as long as it’s been previously published or broadcast or comes from a good source. There is a lot of stuff you hear on the radio that is hearsay, and borderline, but also super interesting (thinking of how certain players have spent their offseasons). So that gets sticky. Wikipedia requires sourcing and citations for the more obscure stuff. As a reader of a wiki page, I would want those sources. And I’m sure unfavorable personal stuff is off limits, unless maybe it’s been published already (thinking of Puckett). But I think it’s that lesser, obscure stuff you would want in order to differentiate yourself from the usual stuff or Wikipedia pages that already exist? Not sure want you have in mind exactly, but it’s got my interest. Keep us posted. 

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Thanks, Brock. I think this is a good idea, with caveats.

I would worry about emotions subbing for content. Stuff like “Walkler Jenkins,is teh greatest p;ropect the Twins in like Forever!!1”

Speaking for myself, I would probably go back to just Google to look for info, if I went to a player’s wiki page and ran into that.

So that is over the top, but then there is the more subtle stuff, which I admit I can be guilty of doing. I have said some things in the discussion forums that maybe have not crossed the line, but that I would not want to say as a contributor to a wiki.

The lesser known stuff would be fun to explore and have access to in one place, as long as it’s been previously published or broadcast or comes from a good source. There is a lot of stuff you hear on the radio that is hearsay, and borderline, but also super interesting (thinking of how certain players have spent their offseasons). So that gets sticky. Wikipedia requires sourcing and citations for the more obscure stuff. As a reader of a wiki page, I would want those sources. And I’m sure unfavorable personal stuff is off limits, unless maybe it’s been published already (thinking of Puckett). But I think it’s that lesser, obscure stuff you would want in order to differentiate yourself from the usual stuff or Wikipedia pages that already exist? Not sure want you have in mind exactly, but it’s got my interest. Keep us posted. 

All of this. 

[ashbury]

I went to the SABR Bio Project and looked up Greg Gagne since he was mentioned, expecting to find several thousand words on his life and career and then planning to ask how everyone would see this proposed Wiki interacting with a bunch of well written info already out there.

But it turns out nobody has written one for Gagne yet.

Huh.  I think I'll have to nag your local SABR chapter to get on the ball and do what the Boston chapter has already done for milestone teams like their 1986 World Series loser, which resulted in a book.  We surely could do as well documenting a 1987 or 1991 winner.  It's only a few thousand man-hours of effort.

Anyway, there do exist bios on guys like Puckett and Hrbek, so investing time on them in a Wiki project should be done with at least knowledge of "prior art" being out there.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The lesser known stuff would be fun to explore and have access to in one place, as long as it’s been previously published or broadcast or comes from a good source.

I dashed off my comment before reading the rest of the thread, and I think you'd like the SABR Bio project, which consists of mostly amateur writers who are supported by a team of professionals who, for example, insist that the writer document everything, and who fix up the grammar (Chicago Manual of Style I think).  They use (also amateur) fact checkers to weed out the worst of the factual mistakes which inevitably creep in despite best intent.

This proposed Wiki would have lower aims than that of course.  But also broader since the prospects are players that the SABR project wouldn't touch for at least another decade.

I just think it's worth thinking through  the vision for how the Wiki would fit into the larger ecosystem.  Brock already brought up the risk of overlapping (to be charitable) what b-r.com does.  Maybe a little sharper definition of what the intended audience is, and exactly how they will be served.

Quote

Maybe include some kind of system where if one of you users edits a page, you get points for it and can use those points for... stuff.

If I can cash in 50,000 points to perma-ban a TD commenter of my own choosing, we're on to something.

[jimmyc]

No because the Austin Martin link will probably continue to always be wrong and you will somehow never be able to fix it. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

34 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Anyway, there do exist bios on guys like Puckett and Hrbek, so investing time on them in a Wiki project should be done with at least knowledge of "prior art" being out there.

And this is really my focus in this project. Puckett and Hrbek have loads of coverage but what about the players we grew up watching like Denny Hocking, Allan Anderson, or Butch Wynegar?

That's really the gap I see a project like this filling.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

It sounds appealing as a one stop shop if one would want information regarding a player.  My only concern is some sort of guidelines would be needed if this is open to edit by the community.  I.e. we would need to somehow omit opinion material and just state the facts.  Who judges that?  TD Moderators?

I think we'd need a team of people who have the final say on edits. It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

25 minutes ago, jimmyc said:

No because the Austin Martin link will probably continue to always be wrong and you will somehow never be able to fix it. 

What Austin Martin link? Is this a joke I'm missing?

Oh, thinking about it, I bet you're talking about the B-Ref linker tool we use. If so, that's buggy af and provided by B-Ref itself. I implore that you petition them to give us better tools than they currently offer, I'm driven crazy by that thing on a regular basis.

[ashbury]

33 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh, thinking about it, I bet you're talking about the B-Ref linker tool we use.

Almost certainly.  I have snarked more than twice about links to players leading to someone who played college ball back in 1997 and never was drafted, or like that.  I assumed it was a q&d tool you had cooked up to automate the process for your authors, and it's certainly useful to have a link to a player's stat page the first time they're mentioned in a TD article.  I had no idea it was a q&d tool by b-r.com themselves.  Sorry for the bad vibes sent your way in those cases.

Who do you think is the best person to complain to, at their site?  There is significant overlap between them and SABR and I don't think it would take much to get them to increase the priority.

[PseudoSABR]

I recall another attempt at a wiki on a Twins website long ago, with varying results...

[Brock Beauchamp]

36 minutes ago, PseudoSABR said:

I recall another attempt at a wiki on Twins website long ago, with varying results...

Canada City will live in infamy forever.

[Brock Beauchamp]

40 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Who do you think is the best person to complain to, at their site?  There is significant overlap between them and SABR and I don't think it would take much to get them to increase the priority.

I'd try here first: https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/contact.shtml

I've had very little interaction with B-Ref itself, I just set up their linker tool with our sites.

[PseudoSABR]

3 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Canada City will live in infamy forever.

[Jocko87]

6 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I think we'd need a team of people who have the final say on edits. It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

It would live and die on this group of people.  It’s a whole different level than moderators or editors.

It would be a good place to keep FAQ and debunk deep seated narratives without 1000 words in a random thread.  Link to ref, move on.  My favorite would be an explanation of Falvey and his “homegrown” Cleaveland pitching.  A well written factual layout of how most of that pitching was traded for would be handy.  We might still argue over the definition of homegrown but here’s the solid data around that question. 

I know I’m not the only one who randomly digs into data on some oddity that catches my attention. I’m not great with excel but I made a rudimentary pivot table for the Cleaveland/Falvey pitching tree.  Took a bit but I deleted it because what the heck do I need it for.  I’d be happy to share with someone who was writing an entry.

There’s a lot of folks here who could make great contributions. The nut will be the structure of editors.  Even the mother Wikipedia struggles with this. 

[ToddlerHarmon]

I'm not sure how to make this element of things happen, but it would be fun to see what I'd have to call "lore" on the site. Everything from my own not-riveting account of everyone on the home run porch knowing full well that the Gladden triple play hit plexiglass first (shhh), to links or excerpts of already published tidbits about the goofy things that make up our collective understanding of a player, like Gardenhire saying we "hate [AJ] a little less", or even the best blog silliness that captured the moment and deserves some posterity (Lil Nicky Punto and Lego replays). I don't necessarily propose spending a lot of effort digging up past anecdotes, but definitely collecting these things as they come up, just quick links on the player page.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, ToddlerHarmon said:

I'm not sure how to make this element of things happen, but it would be fun to see what I'd have to call "lore" on the site. Everything from my own not-riveting account of everyone on the home run porch knowing full well that the Gladden triple play hit plexiglass first (shhh), to links or excerpts of already published tidbits about the goofy things that make up our collective understanding of a player, like Gardenhire saying we "hate [AJ] a little less", or even the best blog silliness that captured the moment and deserves some posterity (Lil Nicky Punto and Lego replays). I don't necessarily propose spending a lot of effort digging up past anecdotes, but definitely collecting these things as they come up, just quick links on the player page.

This is kind of what I was thinking of with the "personal experiences" segment. I think this could be a really fun aspect of this.

[GCTF]

16 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Canada City will live in infamy forever.

I still carry it as my location since we moved here.

[GCTF]

13 hours ago, PseudoSABR said:

City Hall, I believe.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, GCTF said:

City Hall, I believe.

Indeed that is city hall of Canada City.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

This is kind of what I was thinking of with the "personal experiences" segment. I think this could be a really fun aspect of this.

That would set this effort off from what's already on the regular Wikipedia page, for players like Greg Gagne who was mentioned.

[Brock Beauchamp]

11 minutes ago, ashbury said:

That would set this effort off from what's already on the regular Wikipedia page, for players like Greg Gagne who was mentioned.

Yeah, that’s my thinking as well. And I’m absolutely open to other ideas along this vein of thought. 

[ashbury]

I just wanted to circle back and say that I checked with some SABR folks, and a full-blown attempt at serious bios of additional Twins may not be in anybody's future, but maybe a few will arise in coming months.  If I spot any synergy between your Wiki project and what SABR does, I'll try to bring folks together.  But it will be very small scale, one or two individuals at most I would imagine.  Maybe zero - different aims.

If you want any help fostering the TD wiki project after the site software is in place, let me know.

[Huskerboy2]

Certainly !  I never want to forget Anthony Slama . . . or Bombo Rivera as far as that goes.  

Enjoy all that you do!!!