Is The Vanimal Experiment Over?

[Crackin' Wax]

Hello fellow Twins fans! This is my first thread here on the Twins Daily forums and I thought I'd dip my toes by sharing with you a post I recently wrote for my blog, "Crackin' Wax."

 

Before I do though, a bit of an introduction may be in order.

 

My name is Christopher. My readers call me Topher. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've learned to embrace it. I was born in Wisconsin, raised in Minnesota, earned my college degree in Graphic Design in Wisconsin and currently reside in the Twin Cities with my beautiful wife (who is from Wisconsin). Having spent my life torn between two states, I've become a loyal fan of the Twins and the Packers. I know, I know. Don't worry, I won't troll here with cheddar-headed Packer 'tude. I'll stick (mostly) to Twins talk.

 

My love for the Twins started before I had even seen them play. It all started in the back of the family vehicle in 1986 at the age of 9. On one of our weekly grocery shopping jaunts, my mom, for whatever reason, decided to buy me a pack of Topps baseball cards. After miles and miles of pleading with her to allow me to rip that wax wrapper open, she finally caved as we were pulling into our driveway. The very first card that I pulled out of that solitary wax pack of 80s junk was that of Kirby Puckett. That card, a card I still cherish today, helped fuel my love for the Twins and my passion for my current occupation--I run a trading card company for high school student athletes. The combination of the two--Twins and trading cards--is the focus of my blog. While my blog's audience consists mostly of trading card enthusiasts, I am still compelled to write about my all-time favorite sports team.

 

My most recent Twins article was inspired by the recent demotion of Vance Worley, a pitcher whom I very much wanted to succeed. "What may be obvious to this Twins fan is something that Minnesota’s front office may deny with a half-hearted smile. In an era where Joe Mauer is supposed to be more up-front and vocal, the ladies and gentlemen that run the show behind the curtain are staying hush-hush. As they say, though, actions speak louder than words."

 

READ MORE...

 

The story touches on the unfortunate spot the Twins find themselves in by once again losing yet another starting pitcher--a common theme in the past few years--and why that doesn't guarantee anyone, even Kyle Gibson, a promotion. "Kyle Gibson, a prospect that we Twins fans have been waiting on for what seems like nearly a decade, is primed to make his Major League debut this year at the age of 25. The problem? Due to his status, he may not be called up until mid-June."

 

I'm happy to finally be part of this community and am excited to read your thoughts and opinions and to be able to participate further with this community. Thank you all for your time and, of course, GO TWINS!

[nicksaviking]

Welcome to the site. I read your article, and it's widely agreed (screamed?) on this site that Ryan will always refuse to bring in talented pitching free agents. In the case of the Revere trade, I thought at the time and still think that May was the centerpiece of the trade. He may not develop due to his control issues, but I think Worley was the secondary piece and an arm thought to bridge the gap until prospects came up. Still, since he's under team control for another three years, I'm sure the Worley experiment is far from over. This team gives plenty of guys 2nd, 3rd and 4rth chances deserved or not.

[Crackin' Wax]

Thanks for reading. I tend to agree with you that May was the real get in the Revere trade and that Worley was brought in to fill a short-term need. It's hard to see this trend of pitchers performing poorly here or succumbing to major surgery only to be replaced by prospects not entirely ready for the bigs or by free agents and/or waiver claims who were already performing worse than the guys they're replacing--only to see the cycle start all over again. The question is, when will the cycle end? I'm beginning to wonder if someone high up in the Twins front office ranks might be insane? You know, they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time. Handing the team a poor pitching rotation year after year and expecting to compete? Well...

[diehardtwinsfan]

Based on your questioning, I think you'll get along just fine here. To answer the question in the title of the thread, no, the experiment is far from over. Look how long Nick Blackburn got before he was taken off the 40 man. Vance had 2 solid seasons in the majors and struck out more guys than Blackie ever did. Clearly something isn't right here, so he's going to get as many chances as he has options to prove it.

[Crackin' Wax]

Based on your questioning, I think you'll get along just fine here. To answer the question in the title of the thread, no, the experiment is far from over. Look how long Nick Blackburn got before he was taken off the 40 man. Vance had 2 solid seasons in the majors and struck out more guys than Blackie ever did. Clearly something isn't right here, so he's going to get as many chances as he has options to prove it.

 

What makes this a bit more interesting is that Vanimal just pitched a 5-hit complete game shutout in Rochester using 100+ pitches. Maybe he just has big league stage fright?

[70charger]

What makes this a bit more interesting is that Vanimal just pitched a 5-hit complete game shutout in Rochester using 100+ pitches. Maybe he just has big league stage fright?

 

I may have been more comfortable if he were still having issues in Rochester, as that would tell me perhaps that he really is injured.

 

Now, it just looks like he may have AAAA stuff. (Small sample size, I know.) Sadly, it's looking more and more like Hendriks may be the same way, and I am/was a believer that Hendriks could make it as a #3/4.

 

I hope this entire post is precluded by 1) Worley becomes awesome, 2) Worley becomes good, 3) Worley becomes serviceable, 4) SSS.

[Crackin' Wax]

I may have been more comfortable if he were still having issues in Rochester, as that would tell me perhaps that he really is injured.

 

Now, it just looks like he may have AAAA stuff. (Small sample size, I know.) Sadly, it's looking more and more like Hendriks may be the same way, and I am/was a believer that Hendriks could make it as a #3/4.

 

I hope this entire post is precluded by 1) Worley becomes awesome, 2) Worley becomes good, 3) Worley becomes serviceable, 4) SSS.

 

Good point on Hendriks. He and Worley aren't the first Twins pitchers to have success in Rochester only to melt down in Minnesota. Not to be a "Negative Nate" but it makes me wonder what's happening on the Twins side that affects guys like Hendriks and Worley so much that isn't happening in the Minors.

[70charger]

Sometimes there's nothing to be done between AAA and the majors. Sometimes the guy isn't good enough.

 

I just hope that isn't the case when it comes to Worley and Hendriks.

[twinsnorth49]

It will be intesting to see whether the "consistancy" bar will be set at the same height for Worley as it seems to be for Gibson, not that any of us know what that is.

 

How many consistant outings does Vanimal need before a return trip to the TC's?

[Riverbrian]

His two seamer needs to be down. He needs to throw his breaking pitches more and locate them because his 4 seamer isn't exactly moving.

 

This guy at age 23 had 21 starts and posted 119 strikeouts in 131 innings with a 3.01 ERA. He's young and It's quite possible that he didn't really know how he did that.

 

Youngsters in all walks of life sometimes just do something that works with no idea what made it work.

 

A little experience and he will figure it out. Hopefully!!! The experiment better not be over.

[Mr. Brooks]

His two seamer needs to be down. He needs to throw his breaking pitches more and locate them because his 4 seamer isn't exactly moving.

 

This guy at age 23 had 21 starts and posted 119 strikeouts in 131 innings with a 3.01 ERA. He's young and It's quite possible that he didn't really know how he did that.

 

Youngsters in all walks of life sometimes just do something that works with no idea what made it work.

 

A little experience and he will figure it out. Hopefully!!! The experiment better not be over.

 

1) He has exactly 0 swing and misses on 50 curveballs this year, so if he throws it more he's going to do even worse, not better.

 

2) He had an absurdly unsustainable K looking rate, which the league was bound to adjust to. That accounted for his decent K rate.

 

And 3rd, everyone knows how I personally feel about Worley, but no, the experiment is not over, nor should it be as long as we have a historically bad pitching staff.

[Thrylos]

Good point on Hendriks. He and Worley aren't the first Twins pitchers to have success in Rochester only to melt down in Minnesota. .

 

For the record:

 

- before today Worley did not "have success in Rochester"

- Worley has had considerable success in the majors

 

 

That said, he is way out of shape. If he loses 30 lbs or something, he will pitch better. Acute case of BoofBonseritis...

[Mr. Brooks]

For the record:

 

- before today Worley did not "have success in Rochester"

- Worley has had considerable success in the majors

 

That said, he is way out of shape. If he loses 30 lbs or something, he will pitch better. Acute case of BoofBonseritis...

 

Have to look a little deeper than just ERA though.

Keep in mind that guys like Slowey and Blackburn had brief success in the MLB too.

I didn't think he would be THIS bad (and he's probably not), but those ERA's from Philly were not sustainable. Especially not in the AL.

[Brad Swanson]

What I find interesting is that three very young pitchers are being discussed in this thread. Kyle Gibson is the great unknown, as he has not made an MLB start, but he is a promising player who we have heard about for years. Liam Hendriks came up through the system and had great success until reaching Minnesota and experiencing major failure. Vance Worley was acquired in a trade for a very popular player. He has had Minor and Major League success, but none with this organization.

 

Gibson's stock is up, while Hendriks and Worley have seen their stock drop. The interesting thing is that each is roughly the same age. Gibson is only a month younger than Worley, and Hendriks is nearly a year-and-a-half younger than the others. While some are begging for Gibson, some are giving up on Hendriks and Worley.

 

Hendriks and Worley are basically being punished by those who want to give up on them, simply for making it to the Majors at a younger age. Age isn't the only factor of course, but each of these players has given the Twins organization a reason to wait patiently while they continue to develop.

 

There's basically no reason to give up on Worley or Hendriks, especially if we are holding our breath for Kyle Gibson at the same time.

[Riverbrian]

1) He has exactly 0 swing and misses on 50 curveballs this year, so if he throws it more he's going to do even worse, not better.

 

2) He had an absurdly unsustainable K looking rate, which the league was bound to adjust to. That accounted for his decent K rate.

 

And 3rd, everyone knows how I personally feel about Worley, but no, the experiment is not over, nor should it be as long as we have a historically bad pitching staff.

 

1. Depends on the location of it... Depends on his primary pitch being effective to set it up.

2. 8.1 to 7.2 from 2011 to 2012. Down but not a crippling drop. This year has been a crippling drop but it's hard to strike someone out when you are putting it on a tee game after game.

 

I have no idea what is happening with him but like I said... He's young... He may not have understood what made him effective and he may have thought he could just do it again without a decent gameplan cause it worked for him before. Just a guess but his MLB success is decent enough prior to this year.

[Crackin' Wax]

There's basically no reason to give up on Worley or Hendriks, especially if we are holding our breath for Kyle Gibson at the same time.

 

There's also no reason to think that Hendriks will ever succeed with the Twins. Perhaps he'll find success at the Major League level elsewhere but, in my opinion, Hendriks' chances of making a positive difference in the Twins starting rotation is very slim.

 

As a side note, for Gibson's sake, I almost hope he never gets called up to the Twins for fear that he may end up like many other pitchers that have journeyed through Minneapolis. I'm not pointing any fingers here but there has to be a reason why Minnesota seems to be a black hole for pitchers.

[3up3down]

The only pitcher left in Rochester that can help the twins is Gibson ....hendriks & Worley are not good enough to pitch in the AL .. The phillies would have never traded a young cost controlled pitcher for a slap hitting Center fielder if they thought he could repeat what he did in 2011.. Gibson will replace deduno in a couple weeks..but Worley hendriks & devries may just spend the season in Rochester unless there's a injury.

[beckmt]

Do not know if that is the case, though I gave up on Hendriks long ago. Worley I expect to be back at some point, Gibson will be up around July 1 and the rest, who knows. Walters pitched a very good game against the Tigers and may be a hope for a while

[Mr. Brooks]

Do not know if that is the case, though I gave up on Hendriks long ago. Worley I expect to be back at some point, Gibson will be up around July 1 and the rest, who knows. Walters pitched a very good game against the Tigers and may be a hope for a while

 

If you wait until July 1 to call up Gibson, then they might as well not even bother, as he'll only have about 30 to 40 innings left until his limit by then, if that.

[spideyo]

Topher! How's it going man? Small world!

 

On on topic though, I personally wonder how much it had affected Worley (and Corriea and Pelfrey for that matter) to jump to the AL. I've heard often that a consistent routine is vital to starting pitchers, and maybe the simple fact that he's never having to even think about picking up a bat is throwing Worley off.

 

He's a young guy, still new to this organization and new to this league. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. Let him get stuff sorted out a bit in Rochester, and hopefully when he comes back up for his next shot our defense is a little sharper and our offense is more consistent.

[Mr. Brooks]

Ryan was on Judd and Dubay today, and said Worley needs to work on 3 things to get back up.

1) Work ahead in count.

2) Throw breaking balls in fastball count

3) Keep the ball down.

 

He also said that he wasn't that impressed with his shutout in AAA, that he got away with mistakes that he wouldn't in MLB, and had many of the same issues that caused him to get rocked up here. I thought that was a pretty candid and honest thing to hear from a GM, so I appreciate that.

[Shane Wahl]

What I find interesting is that three very young pitchers are being discussed in this thread. Kyle Gibson is the great unknown, as he has not made an MLB start, but he is a promising player who we have heard about for years. Liam Hendriks came up through the system and had great success until reaching Minnesota and experiencing major failure. Vance Worley was acquired in a trade for a very popular player. He has had Minor and Major League success, but none with this organization.

 

Gibson's stock is up, while Hendriks and Worley have seen their stock drop. The interesting thing is that each is roughly the same age. Gibson is only a month younger than Worley, and Hendriks is nearly a year-and-a-half younger than the others. While some are begging for Gibson, some are giving up on Hendriks and Worley.

 

Hendriks and Worley are basically being punished by those who want to give up on them, simply for making it to the Majors at a younger age. Age isn't the only factor of course, but each of these players has given the Twins organization a reason to wait patiently while they continue to develop.

 

There's basically no reason to give up on Worley or Hendriks, especially if we are holding our breath for Kyle Gibson at the same time.

 

This is a very good post. Some perspective is needed. I would much rather have a rotation of Gibson, Diamond, Correia, Worley, and Hendriks than continue to mess around with retreads and proven AAAA pitching. Until Meyer and May are ready, I wouldn't mind seeing Andrew Albers get his shot as the 6th man here. He is likely a better replacement for Anthony Swarzak, who is soon to cost more of that moneys.

[Mike Sixel]

Hendriks' numbers in his time here this year was actually better than most other starters this year, amazingly. I think giving up on either him or Worley is a bad idea, and thankfully the Twins agree with me on that.

 

*edited for typo

[johnnydakota]

good point on hendriks. He and worley aren't the first twins pitchers to have success in rochester only to melt down in minnesota. Not to be a "negative nate" but it makes me wonder what's happening on the twins side that affects guys like hendriks and worley so much that isn't happening in the minors.

 

anderson

[Crackin' Wax]

anderson

 

Heh. I've heard some very public radio guys mention that as a major possibility.