Article: Joe Benson claimed off waivers by Rangers

[Shane Wahl]

I am actually eager to hear this G&G coming up. Gleeman's twitter feed is pretty indicative of his view on this matter, especially considering the presence of Butera, Hermsen, Robertson, DeVries, Deduno, Hernandez, and Ramirez on the 40-man roster (aside from USA Chief's correct point about Gibson over Walters).

[Shane Wahl]

And I am *NOT* a Gleeman fanboy. I'm just sayin'

[PseudoSABR]

My cynicism stems from the fact that the Twins rarely seem to anticipate the problems that prospects eventually seem to have, whether it be within their attitude or skill-set. I know every team has failed prospects, but rarely do the Twins seem to offload prospects (who eventually fail) for value, beyond Bullock.

[Shane Wahl]

My cynicism stems from the fact that the Twins rarely seem to anticipate the problems that prospects eventually seem to have, whether it be within their attitude or skill-set. I know every team has failed prospects, but rarely do the Twins seem to offload prospects (who eventually fail) for value, beyond Bullock.

 

This is correct.

[Brock Beauchamp]

My cynicism stems from the fact that the Twins rarely seem to anticipate the problems that prospects eventually seem to have, whether it be within their attitude or skill-set. I know every team has failed prospects, but rarely do the Twins seem to offload prospects (who eventually fail) for value, beyond Bullock.

 

Bobby Kielty.

 

I think the more accurate statement is "The Twins don't offload many prospects, period." They've shuffled around a few guys for vets like Pavano but I can't remember a recent prospect that left the system and succeeded other than the Golden Calf (and his "success" was very short-lived before turning back into a pumpkin of mediocrity).

[Mike Sixel]

Bobby Kielty.

 

I think the more accurate statement is "The Twins don't offload many prospects, period." They've shuffled around a few guys for vets like Pavano but I can't remember a recent prospect that left the system and succeeded other than the Golden Calf (and his "success" was very short-lived before turning back into a pumpkin of mediocrity).

Probably because they have been so bad at drafting lately.......

[glunn]

Rules for outright waivers.

 

November 11 - April 30 (or the 30th day of the next season): The club with the worst won-loss record in the previous season has priority.

May 1 – July 31 (31st day of the season – July 31): The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority.

August 1 through November 10: The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority, but American League clubs have priority for AL players, and National League clubs have priority for NL players.

 

 

So it's all about when.

 

Nice research, Puck. This suggests that a whole lot of teams passed before Texas grabbed him.

[Danchat]

At some point Hicks or Ramirez will go dtd or be sent down and they will need a space on the 40 to move up Clete Thomas.

 

Prepare you arguments for 100+ replies to losing Chris Colabello, Sam Deduno or PJ Walters. Whose turn is it to play the attitude card when one of them go?

Ha ha I can totally see that coming. "LOL! We totally shouldn't have DFA'd Deduno! Now he's gonna go be a Cy Young in another rotation!"

[Mr. Brooks]

Ha ha I can totally see that coming. "LOL! We totally shouldn't have DFA'd Deduno! Now he's gonna go be a Cy Young in another rotation!"

 

I get that some people think we shouldn't have cut Benson, and others think it was the right move.

But come on man. Please tell me even those that think it was the right move understand the difference between a 25 year old, 5 tool prospect (who admittedly hasnt put it together thus far), and a 29 year old who never was a prospect.

[Kwak]

I get that some people think we shouldn't have cut Benson, and others think it was the right move.

But come on man. Please tell me even those that think it was the right move understand the difference between a 25 year old, 5 tool prospect (who admittedly hasnt put it together thus far), and a 29 year old who never was a prospect.

Twins need anybody who is cheap, and might hold a job pitching. Unless Benson is carrying a toolbox--he doesn't have 5 of them. He can't hit for power or hit period. There really isn't much use for those guys. But don't be concerned, if the Twins want him, he will be available when Benson is DFAd by Texas.

[Mr. Brooks]

Twins need anybody who is cheap, and might hold a job pitching. Unless Benson is carrying a toolbox--he doesn't have 5 of them. He can't hit for power or hit period. There really isn't much use for those guys. But don't be concerned, if the Twins want him, he will be available when Benson is DFAd by Texas.

 

Do you understand the difference between tools and actual production? Benson has all 5 tools, he just hasn't figured out a way to use a couple of them to this point.

[DaveW]

Benson has 5 tools? Which ones are those again?

[Mr. Brooks]

Nevermind, some people don't seem to get the difference between a "tool" and production.

 

I'm not claiming he's any good. Baseball history is littered with 5 tool guys who never panned out. That doesn't change the fact that they had the raw tools though.

[Brad Swanson]

Benson hit a home run today.

[Pius Jefferson]

Benson doesn't have the hit for average tool and I'm not sure speed is much a tool anymore.

[kab21]

Nevermind, some people don't seem to get the difference between a "tool" and production.

 

I'm not claiming he's any good. Baseball history is littered with 5 tool guys who never panned out. That doesn't change the fact that they had the raw tools though.

 

Benson still isn't a 5 tool player. He has speed, arm, defense and some power but he doesn't have the hit for avg tool. There is absolutely no doubt about it after 2500 AB's with a .250 avg. He wasn't going to contribute this year so I can't understand the angst in this thread. Deduno might actually contribute so I don't see how he's in this discussion.

[jokin]

Benson still isn't a 5 tool player. He has speed, arm, defense and some power but he doesn't have the hit for avg tool. There is absolutely no doubt about it after 2500 AB's with a .250 avg. He wasn't going to contribute this year so I can't understand the angst in this thread. Deduno might actually contribute so I don't see how he's in this discussion.

 

i'm firmly in the "meh" camp. Hard to have any angst about losing a guy in such a downward career spiral. He had shown enough raw talent just 2 year ago that he had many of us hoping he could steer himself out of it, but it clearly wasn't meant to be. But, I remain appalled at the lack of FO concern for better bolstering of the CF depth. And Benson seems like he would have been an ideal throw-in candidate for a trade deal in July if he would have been able to show just a little extended string of success between now and July 31. Either way, he would have been gone by the end of the year.

[snepp]

I'm in the "whatever" camp on losing Benson, but the process that led up to it makes me roll my eyes a bit.

[twinsnorth49]

Nevermind, some people don't seem to get the difference between a "tool" and production.

 

I'm not claiming he's any good. Baseball history is littered with 5 tool guys who never panned out. That doesn't change the fact that they had the raw tools though.

 

I think most people here understand the difference between a tool and actual production but if none of those tools ever produced anything, what are we talking about? Definitions?

 

Having said that, at 25 he's still worth hanging on to as opposed to adding a couple of players who should have no business near our 40 man as early as next year.

[Guest USAFChief]

Even well run organizations can find themselves in a bind where 40 man roster spots become an obstacle and someone has to be exposed to waivers.

 

But well run organizations don't intentionally lose guys with Benson's physical abilities over guys with almost zero possibility of ever being useful major leaguers. They don't lose guys like Benson when it wasn't necessary to lose anyone off the 40 man. And they do their best to anticipate 40 man roster implications so as not to put themselves in a bad position later on down if they can avoid it.

 

The Twins did none of that. Draw your own conclusions.

[Shane Wahl]

Even well run organizations can find themselves in a bind where 40 man roster spots become an obstacle and someone has to be exposed to waivers.

 

But well run organizations don't intentionally lose guys with Benson's physical abilities over guys with almost zero possibility of ever being useful major leaguers. They don't lose guys like Benson when it wasn't necessary to lose anyone off the 40 man. And they do their best to anticipate 40 man roster implications so as not to put themselves in a bad position later on down if they can avoid it.

 

The Twins did none of that. Draw your own conclusions.

 

Yeah this is the best overview of the situation that I have seen (and Benson homered last night) from anyone here including myself. Not sure how to "approve" or be in the "meh" camp at all.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yeah this is the best overview of the situation that I have seen (and Benson homered last night) from anyone here including myself. Not sure how to "approve" or be in the "meh" camp at all.

 

I'm in the "meh" camp for two reasons:

 

1. Benson hasn't been productive anywhere in nearly two years.

 

2. At the end of the season, he's out of options, meaning the Twins needed to make a decision relatively soon anyway.

 

With that said, I would have absolutely released a Drew Butera (or fill in one of 3-4 other names here) before Benson (I think everyone on the forum should be well aware of my thoughts on Butera at this point).

 

I'm "meh" because, in the end, I don't think it's going to matter one bit.

[Nick Nelson]

Benson had no path to starting in the major leagues, has been terrible, and is out of options next year. If anything I'm happy for him getting a change of scenery and a better opportunity. Again: two-thirds of all MLB teams passed on the chance to pick him up.

[70charger]

I'm in the "meh" camp for two reasons:

 

1. Benson hasn't been productive anywhere in nearly two years.

 

2. At the end of the season, he's out of options, meaning the Twins needed to make a decision relatively soon anyway.

 

With that said, I would have absolutely released a Drew Butera (or fill in one of 3-4 other names here) before Benson (I think everyone on the forum should be well aware of my thoughts on Butera at this point).

 

I'm "meh" because, in the end, I don't think it's going to matter one bit.

 

This is kind of where I land, but I also agree with USAFchief. Seems contradictory but I don't think so.

 

I don't like the move, I think the Twins had far more viable "dump" options than Benson, and it's not in doubt that Benson has talent whereas others like Hermsen pretty much don't.

 

I'm also meh about it because Benson has been hitting below the Mendoza line in the minor leagues for 2 years, and this is his last option. I've got $20 says he's DFA'd again at the beginning of next year, which is exactly what the Twins would have done. Of course, if the Rangers do it, they won't catch as much grief. Winning records mask a lot of questionable moves, don't they?

 

On the flip side, losing records make meh moves look like they are proof of what we already "know." It's called confirmation bias, and it's where most of the posters on this board are these days.

[Guest USAFChief]

Benson had no path to starting in the major leagues, has been terrible, and is out of options next year. If anything I'm happy for him getting a change of scenery and a better opportunity. Again: two-thirds of all MLB teams passed on the chance to pick him up.

I'd say anyone with a pulse has "a path to starting in the major leagues" on a team coming off 190+ losses over the past two seasons. Besides which, letting players with potential leave your organization unnecessarily is never a good idea.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'd say anyone with a pulse has "a path to starting in the major leagues" on a team coming off 190+ losses over the past two seasons. Besides which, letting players with potential leave your organization unnecessarily is never a good idea.

 

This.

Let's keep in mind, Benson still (which is amazing) has much better MLB numbers than Hicks does, so I don't know why everyone is already crowning Hicks as blocking Benson, considering how Hicks has played thus far.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This.

Let's keep in mind, Benson still (which is amazing) has much better MLB numbers than Hicks does, so I don't know why everyone is already crowning Hicks as blocking Benson, considering how Hicks has played thus far.

 

It might have something to do with 18 months of awful play by Benson and an extremely good 2012 from Hicks, who is also 2-3 years younger than Benson. Comparing the players by their MLB numbers is intentionally ignoring 1+ seasons of awful play by Benson and is a pointless comparison.

[Reginald Maudling's Shin]

Benson has been hurt the last few years which certainly impacted his numbers. Also with the complete lack of CF in the high minors, all he'd have to do is put together a few good weeks and they'd have an excuse to send Hicks down. So I really don't think he was as far away from the majors as some are saying.

[johnnydakota]

Was deffinatly the right move to protect a 30 year old career.186 catcher, when we have so many centerfielders in our system....just what message is Terry Ryan sending with this move?

Butt kissers are move valued then players who have a posible up side? we are building for the future, but not at the expense of the good ole boy network...

[Mr. Brooks]

It might have something to do with 18 months of awful play by Benson and an extremely good 2012 from Hicks, who is also 2-3 years younger than Benson. Comparing the players by their MLB numbers is intentionally ignoring 1+ seasons of awful play by Benson and is a pointless comparison.

 

That wasnt my point.

My point was that people were saying he was blocked here.

IMO we have to see a whole hell of a lot more from the likes of Hicks and Parm before we start claiming our OF is set.