Where Do the Twins Go from Here

[dxpavelka]

22 hours ago, Karbo said:

I don't really have a problem with signing Vazquez. He is still a very good catcher, and has hit OK till joining the Twins. Gallo I was shocked. I don't know what they were expecting giving him that kind of money, but they got what Gallo has become. One thing I've noticed though, some of the hitters we trade away suddenly can hit! Is this an indication of the way our coaching staff is working with these guys?

When you remember all the folks on here advocating to sign Omar Narvaez, Vasquex looks like a genius move.

[Cris E]

The FO made a couple assumptions that didn't work out (again) and so far have not made changes to cover the gaps. 

1. Guys that were expected to recover and contribute are still broken. We're not getting good info on Correa and Buxton so it's not clear how healthy they are, but Polanco and Lewis have put themselves in a troubling Unreliable category and are going to have to reestablish themselves as viable MLB players. History is littered with stories of guys who never had the careers everyone expected because of injury, and these four represent a big chunk of our present. (Pitchers should be expected to lose a season every 3-4 years, and you address that with VOLUME, adding guys like Stewart and DeLeon and cycling through the AAA staff.  Pollack is coming back soon so Balozavic is moving to short relief. The pitching is not going badly.)

2. Some guys they counted on are not playing well. Kepler is turning out to be Kepler, Vasquez is not who he was supposed to be, and Miranda couldn't hold the gains he'd made over the past couple years. What work has been done to diagnose and fix these guys?  During 2022 we were told Max was suffering from a broken toe but this year was going to be better, especially with the shift going away. I'll admit I was cautiously optimistic, but we're well past Give It Another Week and should be deep into an  extended benching to break the bad patterns or perhaps some outside swing doctor. Teams often resist major swing overhauls during the season because they're disruptive, but at this point that might be a good thing.

3. Gallo was an insurance policy against having to play much worse guys. Taylor was picked up to caddy for Buxton. Both are working fine (no Celestino or Cave sightings yet) except for the part where you swap the guy out to try better options if they're available.  Gallo is swinging hard and taking walks and playing OK defense, and Taylor is playing good D and has hit some long balls, but neither is playing well enough to justify a full time MLB role. Around the rest of the diamond they have moved on to Solano, Castro and Julien and it's well past time to try something out there with the insurance policy guys.

In recent years they have made significant mid-year moves, so I still expect them to do something. They have a lot of similar guys piling up in a few spots so I'd expect several of the young corner or 2b guys to be moved (and to probably turn out to be good players where ever they go.) The trick for the office is to choose where to shore up the team.  I'd start at 3B since Lewis isn't holding it down, and if he does wants to win a job he can do it at 2B where Polanco is not doing much.  The offensive problems are systemic, so maybe I'd play with the coaching staff.

 

[roger]

20 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

i.e. Luis with a .314 Career BA over 4.5 years…..Steer has excelled after a rough start last year in Cincinnati. Encarnacion-Strand is raking at AAA for Cinti.

Rooker has been up & mostly down in Oakland.

Not sure on other guys (former Twins) hitting elsewhere?

………………… 

FO needs a bit of a break in that going into ‘23, Buxton was fully expected to be able to play 40-50% of the games, sharing with Gordon/Taylor, in CF. Polanco was expected to play 70% of this year’s games, easily. Buxton playing in CF some allows for Wallner/Julien/Larnach to get AB’s at DH. Miranda was supposed to be a 3rd or 4th best bat in line-up. CC was assumed to be a minimum .260 BA guy with 75RBI at an absolute minimum.

Built a solid rotation - decent Pen!

Miranda a negative - Polanco a negative - CC a negative - Buxton a negative - Gordon backward steps - Larnach no progress……….no crystal ball for the FO……disappointing group effort from the core players!!!

Kepler/Gallo/Pagan/J. Lopez are all 4 squarely on the FO!!!

I have been SLOW to move this way but we need to move forward or at least laterally with new faces in the line-up.

Gallo needs to be displaced from roster. Julien needs to be allowed to flourish or not by getting another 11 weeks of MLB AB’s. Fill 3B with our bench guys until Lewis heals. Kirilloff at 1B everyday at v. RH pitching……Solano v. LH pitching. Play Castro as needed in CF or 3rd & continue to use both him & Taylor to try and manufacture runs via steals & bunts. Kepler in RF & hope we get an offer so Wallner can play last 8 weeks in RF.

Castro - Julien - CC - Buxton - Farmer - Kirilloff - Wallner - Kepler - Jeffers - Vazquez - Taylor - Solano - Lewis OR (trade piece or youth bat in 13th spot)………trade piece would displace Kepler eventually as Lewis comes back.

 

 

Kept reading this, JD, and stopped thinking about the players you were writing about.  Kept thinking, isn't it the Manager and Coaches who should be teaching these players to be better at their trade, rather than seemingly total failures this year?  Shouldn't the Manager and Coaches be motivating these players to be better?  I don't have a clue how much blame goes to the players, but some also goes to the Manager and Coaches.  Other than the pitching coaches, everyone else should be gone within a week of the season's end.

[GopherJeff]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:32 AM, terrydactyls said:

If you are referring to Steer and Encarnacion-Strand, they could hit before they left the Twins.

That trade - Mahle for Steer and Encarnacion-Strand - will be remembered as one of the worst. 

There are so many things with this Twins team that are just plain mediocre - where do you start? Trade more prospects for late career hitters (Arenado or Goldschmidt are frequently mentioned)? Jettison the management and hope new leadership can reinvigorate the current team? 

There are some things that need to be done now - and yet there's no evidence that this is going to happen,. This includes bringing up players that are doing well in AAA and AA, replacing Kepler and Gallo. This, to me, is the most frustrating part of being a fan. 

Also, being in the weakest division in MLB doesn't necessarily inspire attempts at greatness. If mediocre is all it takes to win the division, the current brain trust seems to be satisfied with the status quo.

[NotAboutWinning]

15 hours ago, heresthething said:

The way they are playing and the roster the FO has assembled isn't going to grow the attendance.  They are boring to watch, have no spark and don't have the players or the coaching staff to change any of that.  At the end of the day the one thing we can probably count on is low attendance is going to get Pohlad's attention and get them all fired.  Maybe it will be a 2fer and St. Peter goes too.  

That putrid performance in front of 90,000 last weekend might put a crimp in attendance for the rest of the season!

[BsuNemo]

On 7/12/2023 at 12:31 PM, LA VIkes Fan said:

I understand the desire to fire Rocco; the manager always gets more credit and more blame than deserved. I actually think this roster is performing at or above the talent level with the exception of Correa, Buxton, and Jorge Lopez. Gallo and Kepler aren't very good (to put it mildly), but neither has been very good for the last 2-3 years. We really miss Polanco in the lineup, it stinks that Miranda has taken a huge step back, and it really hurts that Lewis is on the IL again. Other than that, this team is basically what you would expect in the field, better than expected on the mound, and unearthing  Solano and Castro is a very good thing. 

The point of all this is that it doesn't scream Fire The Manager to me. It screams overhaul the roster and do it now, not in the off season. A new manager isn't going to make Correa, Buxton, Kepler or Gallo hit better -  a new manager would at most sit Kepler and Gallo IF the FO would call up Wallner and/ or Larnach. I really think that this group wins 82-85 games, may win the Central if the other teams don't perform, and promptly flames out unless we get at least 2 NEW bats in the lineup AND Buxton and Correa have better second halves of the season.  One of those bats could be Wallner or Larnach, but one probably needs to come from outside of the organization. Trade for Grinchuk, Canha or even better, Lane Thomas or Teoscar Hernandez if you can get them without gutting the system. Call up Wallner. Make the needed room by losing Gallo and Kepler even if you have to eat salary and/or get nothing but A ball lottery tickets in return. 

Fire Rocco? Meh. Don't really care a lot because he isn't the problem and a new manager isn't the solution. Make a significant shakeup in the non-pitching side of the roster? I'm all for it.  

A new coach absolutely could change how some or all of our hitters are hitting. It's his approach they are trying to follow. Rocco was quoted as saying strikeouts aren't a bad thing and the analytical thing to do is swing for the fences. This is why we got Gallo. It's why Kep has went from a mid to high .200s hitter to a low .200s hitter. It's why our hitters hit in the minors and not when they get up with the twins, then when they're traded they hit again. This is all absolutely about the manager and his approach. It worked one year with a juiced ball and he just can't get off that one year and adapt.