What do the the coaches do all night?

[johnnydakota]

You are absolutely correct. Gardy isn't spouting garbage like..."That idiot Plouffe, cost us the game with his bonehead move.." He simply said "Yeah, Plouffe was back too far on that one." Pure, simple statement of fact. As a manager myself (retail, not baseball) I can professionally attest to the importance of honest, respectful candor. You don't ignore things, you don't sugar coat things, you politely but firmly tell it like it is. And for those of you complaining about Gardy saying this in a press conference, remember that we're talking about entertainer-athletes. By their very nature they are in the public eye. I gaurentee Gardy or someone on his staff said something much more pointed and direct to Plouffe in private.

 

wow flipping burger is certainly like Gardy and his posse, wow get a grip, there what 4 or 5 coaches in the dugout , thats less then 2 players per coach, if you cant manage that , then eat seeds and sit in the stands with that other loser Ryan

[Joe A. Preusser]

Making half a million a year,or in better words 1/6 of the average player?

a player who last year was thrown into the position?

Why do many people want to believe that management **** flowers and fart roses?

I understand some whos living depends on spinning things to make there sources look good to keep there inside information flowing, but others who have nothing at stake to swallow as much of the companys kool aide , well thats a different story

 

Funny, I was just wondering why so many people on this site feel the need to trash the coaching staff, front office, etc for relatively insignificant reasons. I guess some people just need to tear down others to make themselves feel better.

[johnnydakota]

Wrong. Refusing to acknowledge a mistake passively accepts it, even if it's just in the public's mind.

And if he ignores the question that reporter asked, then there would be many on this site who would bash him for not dealing with Plouff's mistake.

 

Do it oin private , not in public......

[Joe A. Preusser]

wow flipping burger is certainly like Gardy and his posse, wow get a grip, there what 4 or 5 coaches in the dugout , thats less then 2 players per coach, if you cant manage that , then eat seeds and sit in the stands with that other loser Ryan

 

Flipping a burger? Do you not know what retail is? Of course you don't, you can't even spell or write complete sentences.

[Halsey Hall]

Gardy's got his eraser close by. Plouffe messed up, why not call him on it. It's a minor league mistake.

[Mike Sixel]

Funny, I was just wondering why so many people on this site feel the need to trash the coaching staff, front office, etc for relatively insignificant reasons. I guess some people just need to tear down others to make themselves feel better.

 

I am not sure what to say here......I asked if the coaches should be positioning players, and taking accountability when they are not positioned correctly, and if not, what is it they do during a game? Plenty of people questioning this on this thread say lots of good things about players......

 

as for if this is a big deal or not, what,exactly, is a big deal in coaching? As I said earlier, there is not much you can really measure coaching on, but I would think positioning is one thing you can assess. Really, nothing is important about how the twins play, this is all just entertainment. If you do not want to talk about this particular thing, why even comment?

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I think they sleep all night. I'm sure Gardy does it all the time during games behind his sunglasses too.

[Reginald Maudling's Shin]

At Progressive Field, you do realize that the majority of the coaching staff is about 200 feet away from Plouffe, right? If Vavra is sending signs at an outfielder and doesn't see Trevor move, there is literally nobody else within range to tell him a bunt might be on. What is Gardenhire supposed to do, call Plouffe on a Bat-Phone hidden under third base?

 

And again, Trevor is a big boy. He shouldn't be mis-reading signs and moving way out of position at this point in his career. Blaming the coaching staff when four out of five members are out of earshot is utterly ridiculous (on top of it being a little ridiculous to expect them to start yelling at Plouffe as the pitcher toes the rubber).

If Plouffe is too stupid to realize he shouldn't move back to the point where he can't even make a play on a bunt with a runner on third, then the only thing I might question the coaching staff on is why they put him in there to begin with.

[PseudoSABR]

Look, there's obviously a narrative behind benching and calling out Plouffe that probably is borne out of real facts, real plays, and real negligence (on Plouffe's part). Gardy 'calling out' Plouffe is probably frustration boiling over, where Plouffe damn-well-knows what he should be doing, but does not do it.

 

The likely scenario (rather than the coaching staff being derelict jerks) is that Plouffe blew it. That he should have known better because he's been taught better throughout his playing career, and maybe he was told to anticipate exactly what happened and he failed to do so.

 

I'm honestly not sure why it is easier for so many posters to accept that the management and front office are full of idiotic people, but yet bristle at the notion of a player being stupid, strident, disobedient.

 

It is Plouffe who messed up, and management probably anticipated it, and the dude mucked up anyway, and that's what gets Gardy hot. The alternative reading just defies logic, and plays into the most cynical narrative that fans can possible have. What fun.

[Joe A. Preusser]

I am not sure what to say here......I asked if the coaches should be positioning players, and taking accountability when they are not positioned correctly, and if not, what is it they do during a game? Plenty of people questioning this on this thread say lots of good things about players......

 

as for if this is a big deal or not, what,exactly, is a big deal in coaching? As I said earlier, there is not much you can really measure coaching on, but I would think positioning is one thing you can assess. Really, nothing is important about how the twins play, this is all just entertainment. If you do not want to talk about this particular thing, why even comment?

 

 

Mike I wasn't calling you or anyone in particular out, although I can see why you might think so since you started this thead. I was referring to a generally negative attitude I often see on his site re: the coaching and FO staff. As far as "insignificant" I didn't mean the particular bunt play was insignificant, I meant what Gardy said in his interview was (a topic that became a focal point for the thread).

[TheLeviathan]

Wrong. Refusing to acknowledge a mistake passively accepts it, even if it's just in the public's mind.

And if he ignores the question that reporter asked, then there would be many on this site who would bash him for not dealing with Plouff's mistake.

 

A number of things here - first off, who cares what the public thinks? Gardy had literally millions of options to answer that question that did not involve name-dropping Plouffe. In all likelihood it was completely his fault, but that doesn't necessitate a public shot at Plouffe again. Here is another example, from the millions, Gardy could have said:

 

"We weren't in the right spot there for Kipnis, we'll work on that and make sure we're on it next time"

 

It takes accountability, doesn't throw Plouffe under the bus, and answers the question. I don't know whose fault it was (Plouffe's most likely) but I do know who is responsible for being the public face of the team - Gardy. He consistently made no effort to answer questions diplomatically. And that should be part of his job - we fans don't have to hear the ear-chewing he gave Plouffe. That rightfully belongs to stay in his office.

[snepp]

The likely scenario (rather than the coaching staff being derelict jerks) is that Plouffe blew it. That he should have known better because he's been taught better throughout his playing career, and maybe he was told to anticipate exactly what happened and he failed to do so.

 

That's the likely scenario, but it seems that the "do the little things Twins" do fewer of them each year, and Gardy resorting to yet another round of bus tossing is cringe inducing. When does Gardy and Co take the blame on themselves? It must be possible that they just aren't all that great at preparing the players.

[Physics Guy]

That's the likely scenario, but it seems that the "do the little things Twins" do fewer of them each year, and Gardy resorting to yet another round of bus tossing is cringe inducing. When does Gardy and Co take the blame on themselves? It must be possible that they just aren't all that great at preparing the players.

 

I tend to agree with this. As many have stated here, this is most likely a situation where Gardy's frustration with Plouffe has boiled over. My feeling is that Plouffe misinterpreted the signs to Arcia, which can happen. He is still relatively new to the position so everything isn't automatic for him. I still think he can be an average 3B, but he needs to start showing that he cares more about the defensive part of the game. All that said, I still don't care for the way Gardy is dealing with this. It is their responsibility to prepare their players, especially one that is learning the position at the MLB level. Most of this is on Plouffe, but Gardy and his staff have some responsibility. When was the last time you heard Gardy say something like, "Plouffe was out of position there. I think he misread the signals from the coaches. We need to do a better job of making sure guys are in the right places." Acknowledge he made a mistake, but have some accountability also. If Plouffe really is screwing up enough that he feels he needs to call him out, I would rather he just sits his sorry butt on the bench.

[PseudoSABR]

That's the likely scenario, but it seems that the "do the little things Twins" do fewer of them each year, and Gardy resorting to yet another round of bus tossing is cringe inducing. When does Gardy and Co take the blame on themselves? It must be possible that they just aren't all that great at preparing the players.

He takes the blame when we don't need supposition and twisted narrative to blame him.

 

I think we're being naive that some other manager would have a more successful time with this group.

[Joe A. Preusser]

A number of things here - first off, who cares what the public thinks? Gardy had literally millions of options to answer that question that did not involve name-dropping Plouffe. In all likelihood it was completely his fault, but that doesn't necessitate a public shot at Plouffe again. Here is another example, from the millions, Gardy could have said:

 

"We weren't in the right spot there for Kipnis, we'll work on that and make sure we're on it next time"

 

It takes accountability, doesn't throw Plouffe under the bus, and answers the question. I don't know whose fault it was (Plouffe's most likely) but I do know who is responsible for being the public face of the team - Gardy. He consistently made no effort to answer questions diplomatically. And that should be part of his job - we fans don't have to hear the ear-chewing he gave Plouffe. That rightfully belongs to stay in his office.

 

I don't think we are really disagreeing on much here. I also think that any real ear-chewin or whatever should absolutely for private. But I also think there is nothing wrong with giving a frank assessment of what he feels happened on a given play. "Plouffe was back too far." It's not even really a criticism necessarily. I would expect Gardy to do the same if he or someone on his staff made a mistake as well; "I left Correia in a batter too long..." "Vavra shouldn't have sent the runner there." Et cetera. I hate when managers engage in double speak or make cliched remarks that tell us little. You can't pick on a guy, don't embaress him, but if I were in Plouffe's position right now I wouldn't feel that Gardy did anything out of line. In fact I'd stand up and say, "No, Gardy is sugar-coating it, I screwed up bad and it ended up costing us."

[Guest USAFChief]

A couple things: there were two out, Kipnis' bunt isn't even a good play. It's only a good play because in this case, it worked. Generally speaking, third basemen play back with two out, particularly in RBI situations. It's common positioning and no different than teams shifting and leaving the left side of the infield open. Sometimes you get burned. I also find it hard to believe that the Twins are positioning the left fielder before the play, but can't see where Plouffe is positioned. And I'll add my concurrence to the sentiment there's not much to be gained by calling out Plouffe in the press, and it would be refreshing for a change to hear Gardenhire throw himself and/or his staff under the bus once in a while, when their errors and mistakes can be as glaring as any players.

[TheLeviathan]

"No, Gardy is sugar-coating it, I screwed up bad and it ended up costing us."

 

I heartily endorse PLOUFFE deciding to shame himself in public. I agree that for Gardy this was a tame one, but here is a team that attacks selfishness in players, constantly emphasizes that players should put the team before themselves, and shuns players who don't live up to that. And yet our manager is the first one to put the "I" in "team" by rushing to throw the player under the bus for a mistake. What's so hard about saying "we" to the public and leaving the direct feedback to the clubhouse? It's not only unproductive, it's counterproductive and incredibly hypocritical. It's been happening for years and I'm jsut tired of it. No more tolerance left for it.

[Halsey Hall]

Another coaching mishap today when Willingham didn't see the stop sign. Granted, maybe he should have, but as it played out I can see how he missed it. Vavra was waving Mauer home as he came around 3rd and Hammer around 2nd. Vavra then threw up the stop sign which Joe saw and stopped. Willingham probably has eyes on the 3rd base bag and didn't see it.

 

The thing here is, and Vavra's new at it, he has to realize that he's got two players that look to him, not just the one rounding 3rd. The coach's should talk to the players about that situation as you know it'll happen again and again.

[TheLeviathan]

Willingham probably has eyes on the 3rd base bag and didn't see it.

 

That one was all on Willingham. He should've been watching Vavra and the replay clearly showed he was watching RF instead.

[Riverbrian]

Another coaching mishap today when Willingham didn't see the stop sign. Granted, maybe he should have, but as it played out I can see how he missed it. Vavra was waving Mauer home as he came around 3rd and Hammer around 2nd. Vavra then threw up the stop sign which Joe saw and stopped. Willingham probably has eyes on the 3rd base bag and didn't see it.

 

The thing here is, and Vavra's new at it, he has to realize that he's got two players that look to him, not just the one rounding 3rd. The coach's should talk to the players about that situation as you know it'll happen again and again.

 

Willingham was rounding 2nd and clearly looking at the RF... He saw throw going home so he kept going. He had no idea what was happening at 3B until it was to late.

 

Vavra has the job of stopping Mauer if he must be stopped and with nobody out and the fielder in throwing position and Mauer just rounding third... I think it was a smart stop sign by Vavra...

 

It is very difficult to control two runners without confusing the lead runner.

 

The baserunning gaff was on Willingham. He has to know what the runner in front is doing. Once he sees the ball is through the infield... It's eyes forward at that point.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I didn't see the play but stuff like what was described happens when you run the bases aggressively.

 

Which is fine because you'll take the extra base far more often than you'll get caught. It's a fair trade off in my opinion.

 

Of course, then there's Chad Allen.

[Jim H]

A major league regular, like we hope Plouffe is, will be in the field for about 150 games in a season. Most games will be 27 outs with probably about another 12 baserunners. There will be between maybe 100 and 150 pitches thrown. Largely an infielder, particularly a 3b should be making adjustments to his positioning on nearly every pitch, depending on the hitter, the pitcher, the count, the number of outs, the number of baserunners, which bases they occupy and probably some other things I am forgetting.

 

All fielders are going to be out of position, sometimes. We hope it isn't very often, and when they are, it doesn't hurt the team. Sometimes the coaches will catch it and fix it, sometimes they will notice it too late, sometimes they might not notice it at all.

 

The other thing is here is acknowledging mistakes. I actually have heard Gardy and Kelly before him acknowledging their own mistakes. Sometimes we don't hear all of the press conferences, we certainly don't hear all their interviews. Reporters decide on what to report. It is certainly more interesting if we can construe something a manager said into throwing a player under the bus. It probably isn't an accurate interpretation, but it is more interesting.

 

I suspect that most things a manager or coach says about a player, are said to the player. You don't get a reputation as a player's manager, which Gardy largely has, if the players feel like they can't trust their manager. A manager also has to be honest with his fans, the reporters and management. Personally, if the manager or the coaches come to me the player, and explains what he thinks I have done wrong, and also gives me a chance to explain why I did it--well I wouldn't worry much about what gets in the papers or TV.

[ThePuck]

I've been watching as many postgame interviews as I can for years and reading all the articles about the Twins. I remember Gardy claiming responsibility for a mistake once....that's it...once. I don't even remember what it was about anymore just that I couldn't believe my freakin ears that he actually, FINALLY, admitted he made a mistake.

 

I remember Gardy belittling a reporter for twice daring to question a ridiculous strategic move he made in a game...one that he had made quite a few times and never worked. He was convinced it was the right move and couldn't even consider that hey, maybe it's the wrong call.

 

In an interview with ESPN1500 at the end of the 2011 season Gardy said that some players were defensive with him, not wanting to listen and upset he throws them under the bus whatever that means (as if he doesn't know what that means and that he does it...all the time). He dismissed all of that as the PLAYERS' problem, nothing HE was doing wrong.