Mackey: Sano Could Hold His Own in the Majors Right Now

[ThePuck]

No, it was a .756 OPS with 24 HRs and 19 doubles. And a significant wrist injury. And spending the first two months on the bench.

 

okay, but did you read his post? It was all about comparing OPS to others at different positions. The whole post changes when it goes from .791 to .756.

[jokin]

okay, but did you read his post? It was all about comparing OPS to others at different positions. The whole post changes when it goes from .791 to .756.

 

Or .855

[ThePuck]

Or .855

 

indeed...here's to hoping he gets back to that.

[jokin]

indeed...here's to hoping he gets back to that.

 

Hey, it's all good. There's no doubt Plouffe has holes in his game, FWIW, he does appear to be more comfortable in the field, even if the results aren't there, yet. And I like his approach at the plate thus far this season- no more of those Cuddyer-like low and outside flails with 2 strikes, and- lots more bad pitchers and soon to be tired arm pitchers to face as the weather finally heats up, the man hits a mistake pitch as well as anyone. I am willing to put up with his less than stellar defense if he can OPS in the 800s over the next few years.

[Halsey Hall]

he botched a slow roller??!!! Dfa him. He's worthless!

 

I agree, seriously. I doubt 4A Plouffe will last the season with us. He can take the route his buddy Luke Hughes did. He's just not good a 3rd, and that's my eye test if anyone really needs to know. Also, he's a flash in the pan in the box. If the pitch isn't in a 6" circle, he's an easy out. I'd trade him whenever I could if anyone would take him.

 

3rd base should of been addressed in the off season, but we still have Carroll.

 

As far as Sano goes, he's improving. It'll take some time. Sometimes I wonder if he ever played with a glove in the DR, as he can get the ball to hit the pocket but doesn't squeeze and it pops out. He'll get there, but I can't see him on the Twins til maybe middle of next year if he keeps improving.

[jokin]

I agree, seriously. I doubt 4A Plouffe will last the season with us. H

 

 

 

As far as Sano goes, he's improving. It'll take some time. Sometimes I wonder if he ever played with a glove in the DR, as he can get the ball to hit the pocket but doesn't squeeze and it pops out. He'll get there, but I can't see him on the Twins til maybe middle of next year if he keeps improving.

 

The second part I agree with completely, but since there have been bombastic bet proposals thrown around lately, I'll take you up on Plouffe being the regular 3B all year, barring a game-changing trade, of course.

[Halsey Hall]

Ok, sounds good to me. And if he should play decent this year, I'll be very pleasantly surprised, so a win win for me!

[jokin]

Ok, sounds good to me. And if he should play decent this year, I'll be very pleasantly surprised, so a win win for me!

 

Me too. I too, still have my doubts- he'll always be a flawed player in my mind, but the first 2 weeks have turned me slightly more optimistic.

[ThePuck]

I agree, seriously. I doubt 4A Plouffe will last the season with us.

 

So, you think we'll trade him or just release him?

[Brock Beauchamp]

So he hit alot of solo hr's in a cute little 2 month stretch last year. Im happy for him.

 

You're right, I completely forgot that solo homeruns don't count.

[Guest USAFChief]

He is unquestionably an awful major league baseball player.

I'll give your opinion every bit as much serious consideration as it deserves.

[LaBombo]

So, you think we'll trade him or just release him?

 

Of course. How else will they know that Sano is ready? The lack of any proven alternatives is what tells you the kid's time has come. That, and a handful of nice ST at bats.

 

It's a proven formula that's been working since whenever Hicksie improves from historically bad to merely overmatched.

[ThePuck]

Of course. How else will they know that Sano is ready? The lack of any proven alternatives is what tells you the kid's time has come. That, and a handful of nice ST at bats.

 

It's a proven formula that's been working since whenever Hicksie improves from historically bad to merely overmatched.

 

okay...I guess we'll see.

[Aaron Cross]

Plouffe is nothing more than a stopgap, and a bad one at that. Id rather have carroll out there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Plouffe is nothing more than a stopgap, and a bad one at that. Id rather have carroll out there.

 

And you'd be wrong for it.

 

Plouffe has an OPS+ of 120 in 2013. What exactly do you want from the guy?

[Halsey Hall]

So, you think we'll trade him or just release him?

 

 

I think he gets traded.

[kab21]

Obviously the answer is to convert him to RP. Poor DPJ. Almost every player that he passionately disliked turned into good players (plouffe and Perkins) or continued to put up good seasons (Cuddyer).

[jokin]

I think he gets traded.

 

Not this year, unless there is a ridiculous, blow-em-away deal offered.

[cmathewson]

Plouffe is nothing more than a stopgap, and a bad one at that. Id rather have carroll out there.

 

blerp

[twinsin17]

I remember reading a much more pro-Plouffe thread a little less than a year ago. http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/1591-trevor-plouffe-comparable-3.html It is funny how opinions change so quickly. Personally, I'm in the sign him cheap now camp. Best case? He continues to improve defensively and develops a more consistent bat. We already know the power is there. If this happens we have an above average third basemen at a bargain rate - also a valuable trading chip. Worst case? Sano and Rosario come up sooner than originally expected and take over 3rd (Sano is a defensive down grade from Plouffe) and 2nd (end of Dozier era). If this happens Plouffehe could become a power hitting utility infielder/pinch hitter/DH once Carroll, Dozier and Doumit are gone.

[drjim]

Opening day next year has Sano at 3B and Plouffe in LF. Everyone wins!

[snepp]

He is unquestionably an awful major league baseball player.

 

There remain a few "unquestionably's" on the Twins. Plouffe, as it currently stands, is not one of them.

[Aaron Cross]

And you'd be wrong for it.

 

Plouffe has an OPS+ of 120 in 2013. What exactly do you want from the guy?

Until we have a little bigger sample size to go by, I'm going with the eye test. He doesn't pass the eye test. I see him continually chasing bad pitches. I see far too many botched plays in the field.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Until we have a little bigger sample size to go by, I'm going with the eye test. He doesn't pass the eye test. I see him continually chasing bad pitches. I see far too many botched plays in the field.

 

And your "eye test" equates to "unquestionably bad ball player".

 

Whether your eye test believes it or not, a ball player cannot be "unquestionably bad" and post an OPS over .750. That number, by its very existence, negates any possibility of a guy being "unquestionably bad".

 

Drew Butera is an unquestionably bad ball player. Why can one say this with utmost certainty? Because his ability to hit a baseball authoritatively is one of the worst in the history of the game.

 

Now that is "unquestionably bad". A guy who posts an OPS+ over 100 cannot be put into the ranks of a Drew Butera.

 

Eye tests are great for deciding if a guy is good in the field or very good in the field. An eye test is great for a guy who tends to chase a few too many breaking balls in the dirt. The eye test is great for figuring out when a runner takes a chance on moving first to third on a right fielder with a cannon for an arm.

 

The eye test does not overrule basic math and statistical performance because the human eye sees what it wants to see a large percentage of the time. Perception overrules objectivity a huge portion of the time and any time an eye test is the primary basis for an observation, "unquestionably" should not be the modifier that goes along with it.

[kab21]

Until we have a little bigger sample size to go by, I'm going with the eye test. He doesn't pass the eye test. I see him continually chasing bad pitches. I see far too many botched plays in the field.

 

So he's Michael Cuddyer then?

[Badsmerf]

I don't understand the hate here. Plouffe botched a few plays, but he's also made some truly great ones. he didn't have an error through 10 games and botched a few when it was terrible weather. Let him get a few more attempts and his defensive metrics will return to normal. He is an average glove. He has 218 games at 3b in his professional career. I do think he has the skills to keep improving. Nobody is saying he will be as steady as Koskie, but league average shouldn't be that difficult. In 2012 his fielding % was .935, league average was .952. So, 1.7% difference. I have a hard time believing that after adjusting to a new position and being able to spend his time working there wont produce better results, even if they are marginal (which is all they need to be). His range factors are pretty close to league average too. So saying he is terrible, is just wrong.

 

I get it. Plouffe is rarely flashy or smooth. He hasn't come through in some high leverage situations. I find it funny that someone can bash him when he is currently in the top 10 in the league for OPS, is coming off a 20+ HR season, is still only 26 and is getting comfortable at a new position. Even if he never gets better on D and is simply below average, his bat more than makes up for it. I'd rather have a good bat with below average defense than mediocre bat and mediocre glove.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I don't understand the hate here.

 

I'm not sure I do either, and it does seem this thread has detoured from it's original intended destination, to talk about Sano.

 

Yes, I understand that Plouffe is relevant to the discussion as he currently plays the position that Sano is ostensibly being groomed to take, and that Plouffe's ability, both current and potential, factor into whether Sano makes a position change or not. Still, looking over the past couple of pages, the discussion seems to be virtually all about Plouffe with little about Sano.

[Shane Wahl]

If Sano shows improvement at third and continues to hit like this a promotion to New Britain should occur with him playing third base.

 

Then when ticket sales are bad in September, he gets a call up (but with the expectation that he is not given the role out of ST next year--I can't imagine how he could be ready for that) since he has to be added to the 40-man anyway.

[LaBombo]

I'm not sure I do either, and it does seem this thread has detoured from it's original intended destination, to talk about Sano.

 

Yes, I understand that Plouffe is relevant to the discussion as he currently plays the position that Sano is ostensibly being groomed to take, and that Plouffe's ability, both current and potential, factor into whether Sano makes a position change or not. Still, looking over the past couple of pages, the discussion seems to be virtually all about Plouffe with little about Sano.

More Sano/less Plouffe is a good idea for the thread, but will risk throwing in my take on Plouffsie first: He's nowhere near bad enough that the Twins should rush Sano (or make any other dramatic move) to replace him, and not nearly good enough to consider moving Sano off third if that's his ideal position.

[Brock Beauchamp]

More Sano/less Plouffe is a good idea for the thread, but will risk throwing in my take on Plouffsie first: He's nowhere near bad enough that the Twins should rush Sano (or make any other dramatic move) to replace him, and not nearly good enough to consider moving Sano off third if that's his ideal position.

 

 

Pretty much this.