Remember Me?

[gunnarthor]

Slowey is a widely regarded as a jerk while Blackburn is widely regarded as Gardenhire's good ol' boy from Oklahoma. It's clear the decision was at least made in large part due to personality, is that the best way to win in this league? I don't believe so.

 

Again, this Gardy Machiavellian BS ....

 

Going into the 2011 season, Blackie had managed to be a better pitcher than Slowey - pitching 160 more innings over the last 3 years and pitching remarkably better than Slowey down the stretch in 2010, after he came back from the DL. Slowey had continuously shown that he was unable to pitch deep into ball games - in 2010, he managed 9 quality starts in 28 starts. He murdered the bullpen. And while Blackie wasn't great in 2011, his .6 WAR and 46% quality start rate were better than Slowey (2 QS in 8 starts and a -.5 WAR while pouting).

 

But yeah, Gardy gave him all the breaks b/c they were both from Oklahoma. (really need an eye rolling thingy) Does Slowey ever take responsibility for his actions?

[fairweather]

When healthy Slowey is better than anyone currently in the Twins rotation. That isn't saying much considering Worley is the de facto ace. Slowey is the #5 starter for a team many would try and sell as worse than the Twins. I know the Astros are BAD but the Twins could be the worst team in baseball. The rotation is that bad right now. I expect it will get better with Diamond back and Deduno and Gibson hopefully on the way, but right now this team is a ticking time bomb that should have been blown up 2 years ago.

[ashbury]

He was the drunkest of the bunch (why not when you're the only guy in between starts?), but he fit right in with the other guys.

 

Maybe he was all right when drinking, but a mean sober.

[jay]

Maybe he was all right when drinking, but a mean sober.

 

But then it wouldn't fit my narrative... so, surely that can't be true.

[ashbury]

In other news, 26-year-old Daniel Turpen has given up 7 earned runs in 4 relief appearances for Rochester. "Great trade. Who'd we get?"

[jokin]

Along with most of what he writes.

 

Buh-dum-dum....

[jokin]

To be fair, there is a TON more media now than even 10-15 years ago. Especially the TV guys. They have to fill 3+ hours of air time 150+ times per year now, which was not nearly the case for previous generations. So there is a greater chance they will say stupid/insensitive stuff.

 

Furthermore, there are greater records of it now, and we're all a little more sensitive. I have no doubt that Gordon, Carneal, etc. regurgitated some one-sided front office gab back in the day -- I'd be surprised if there was ever an announcer who didn't do that. I'd guess they probably committed that act about as frequently as newspapers of the time, but there simply is no paper trail for the announcers.

 

I will say that recent acts like this have probably increased, due to the vast increase in media coverage and a bit of an "echo chamber" effect. Also, the Twins had a ~10 year run of relevance, which focused that attention further.

 

Spycake- did you actually hear the little bit that DicknBert perpetrated? No "echo chamber" effect in this particular case. I was actually embarrassed for them- bush league all the way.

[snepp]

Buh-dum-dum....

 

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/mattahall50/RIMSHOT.jpg

[Riverbrian]

Vin Scully seems to have been able to make the transition without taking cheap shots.

 

LOL... Using Vin Scully as an example here is akin to saying... Hank Aaron has no problem hitting homers.

[jokin]

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/mattahall50/RIMSHOT.jpg

 

I'm cymbal-less.

[Riverbrian]

Kevin Slowey was given away to the Rockies on December 6th, 2011.

 

The Rockies gave Slowey to the Indians on January 20th, 2012.

 

The Indians removed Slowey from the 40 man roster on October 31st, 2012.

 

The Marlins signed Slowey to a minor league deal on January 23rd, 2013.

 

March 26th, 2013... Kevin Slowey won the 5th spot in the Marlins rotation because Jacob Turner struggled more than the Marlins were hoping he would. If Turner doesn't struggle... Slowey would have started in New Orleans.

 

April 14th, 2013... Kevin Slowey has produced a nice 2.19 ERA after 3 starts and a Thread is created on Twins Daily with an implication that the Twins screwed up while also ignoring that the pitching starved Rockies and Indians also failed to see his ability to make 3 consecutive decent starts.

[ashbury]

RB, it's even more than you say: had the Twins hung onto him, arbitration would likely have given him a series of escalating contracts, whereas after being cut he had very little salary leverage. And yet these other teams cut a nearly no-cost commodity. If the Twins were dumb, these two teams were even dumber. (A movie parody suggests itself here.)

 

The only counter-argument I can see is that these decisions to cut him weren't by teams with a track record of great talent evaluation. Had the Cardinals or Giants cut him, then it would be fair to say 'who knew?'. OTOH, the counter-counter argument is that neither of the Cardinals or Giants have chosen to take a flyer on the enigma called Kevin Slowey, so maybe that says something as well.

 

/edit: Spycake correctly pointed out that the next two teams were on the same hook for salary as the Twins would have been. So if Slowey turns out to be the next Cy Young winner, the Rox and Tribe will have been exactly as dumb as the Twins, not dumber. Saying that here, rather than add to the thread length.

[jokin]

Kevin Slowey was given away to the Rockies on December 6th, 2011.

 

The Rockies gave Slowey to the Indians on January 20th, 2012.

 

The Indians removed Slowey from the 40 man roster on October 31st, 2012.

 

The Marlins signed Slowey to a minor league deal on January 23rd, 2013.

 

March 26th, 2013... Kevin Slowey won the 5th spot in the Marlins rotation because Jacob Turner struggled more than the Marlins were hoping he would. If Turner doesn't struggle... Slowey would have started in New Orleans.

 

April 14th, 2013... Kevin Slowey has produced a nice 2.19 ERA after 3 starts and a Thread is created on Twins Daily with an implication that the Twins screwed up while also ignoring that the pitching starved Rockies and Indians also failed to see his ability to make 3 consecutive decent starts.

 

Correction- Slowey's ERA after 3 starts is 2.04. He's as likely to regress as Correia is- but he is now apparently in much better health, which he clearly hasn't been under 3 team's watch over the last 2 seasons.

 

The larger point being made was it's going to cost the Twins $10M to find out the hard truth of Correia's actual worth. Going back a couple years, the Twins made a decision to pay, and commit to, long-term, a guy with clearly inferior stuff. And then came the injury and internal brouhaha (not necessarily in that order).

 

He's currently a ERA+ guy of 193. I think most fans would be thrilled if we still had a guy with Slowey's career ERA+ when he was healthy as a MN Twin of around 95. Other than Correia- at ERA+ of 132- the other starters are in the 40s and 50s (shades of 2011-12). The Twins SP staff as a group is at the bottom of MLB in ERA, K/9, K%, OBA, WHIP, etc. etc. (other than WHIP, their peripheral numbers are WAAY below even the 29th-ranked team).

[PseudoSABR]

April 14th, 2013... Kevin Slowey has produced a nice 2.19 ERA after 3 starts and a Thread is created on Twins Daily with an implication that the Twins screwed up while also ignoring that the pitching starved Rockies and Indians also failed to see his ability to make 3 consecutive decent starts.

Right.

 

But that doesn't fit into the narrative that the Twins don't know what they are doing. It's fine to note that Slowey has turned himself around (maybe!), but to critique the Twins while ignoring that he had two stints with two other clubs before signing a minor league deal with the Marlins seems purposefully inflammatory. Maybe it's not quite trolling, but the whole premise of the thread seems disingenuous to me.

[DaveW]

I feel like the "well he is better than Correia, will become the new...well he is better than butera" meme this year, which is beyond annoying.

 

There was zero reason to keep Slowey around, ESP after he refused to pitch in the pen, we can say what we want about Blackburn, but at least the guy always did what the team wanted him to do.

[Pius Jefferson]

Dick's a tool. I knew someone who used to work for FSN, and he took his old man with him to some type of FSN banquet. The father went up to Dick just to say hello and shake his hand, and Dick completely blew him off. This old man is one of the kindest guys I know and a diehard Twins fan, so screw Dick.

 

Dick was just shocked anyone would actually want to meet him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

had the Twins hung onto him, arbitration would likely have given him a series of escalating contracts, whereas after being cut he had very little salary leverage. And yet these other teams cut a nearly no-cost commodity. If the Twins were dumb, these two teams were even dumber.

 

Actually the only team to "cut" Slowey has been the Indians. The other transactions were trades and simply shifted his arbitration status and awards around. Nobody has cut him again since he was released.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Marlins were not the only team interested in him once he became a cheap free agent; he may have chosen them over others due to the likelihood of opportunity.

[TheLeviathan]

There was zero reason to keep Slowey around, ESP after he refused to pitch in the pen, we can say what we want about Blackburn, but at least the guy always did what the team wanted him to do.

 

Just to be clear I think the conversation has spun a couple different ways. I don't begrudge the Twins for moving him - I thought it was a stupid move at the time (another sell-low move I railed against heavily) when the team had plenty of available pitching spots that they could've given to him to rebuild value. He may well have never rebuilt any value, but as we saw last year - it would've been hard for him to be any worse than what we had.

 

All that said, the whole "do what the team wants" should at least include the team not intentionally tossing around your career like it's worthless. Slowey has a right to not like the idea of being converted to a reliever in the manner they did it. They stretched him out all spring, never letting him believe his role would be anything but a starter. And then within a week of opening day they told him he'd be a reliever. And then, most baffling of all, in 3 OF THE FIRST 4 GAMES!!!, they used him as a one inning reliever.

 

Blackburn can lunchpail his sorry talent to the mound all he wants, I can't remember a team doing what the Twins did to Slowey before. It wasn't a shock he got hurt as a result of that usage and he had a right to be pissed. That's his career and his family's livelihood. He basically became the pariah for the awful 2011 season. It was incredibly unfair. So I'm merely rooting for the guy to succeed in spite of the Twins best efforts to mangle his career.

[jokin]

I feel like the "well he is better than Correia, will become the new...well he is better than butera" meme this year, which is beyond annoying.

 

I feel like the commitment to paying Correia $10M is beyond annoying- I hope I'm miraculously proven wrong, but his peripherals suggest inevitable implosion. Slowey isn't going to maintain an ERA+ of 193, and he wasn't an angel in the whole divorce process, but the Twins still have to be able to get more in value when they shed and acquire personnel and not go on badmouthing media campaigns that destroy perceived player value.

 

we can say what we want about Blackburn, but at least the guy always did what the team wanted him to do.

 

Did the team "want" him to rank at #142 out of 143 SPs in baseball in 2013? Or #195 out of 199 for 2012-13 combined. Or top out as the worst in all of baseball's SPs in 2013, with an ERA of 7.39? But hey, he's a good soldier.

[jokin]

Just to be clear I think the conversation has spun a couple different ways. I don't begrudge the Twins for moving him - I thought it was a stupid move at the time (another sell-low move I railed against heavily) when the team had plenty of available pitching spots that they could've given to him to rebuild value. He may well have never rebuilt any value, but as we saw last year - it would've been hard for him to be any worse than what we had.

 

All that said, the whole "do what the team wants" should at least include the team not intentionally tossing around your career like it's worthless. Slowey has a right to not like the idea of being converted to a reliever in the manner they did it. They stretched him out all spring, never letting him believe his role would be anything but a starter. And then within a week of opening day they told him he'd be a reliever. And then, most baffling of all, in 3 OF THE FIRST 4 GAMES!!!, they used him as a one inning reliever.

 

Blackburn can lunchpail his sorry talent to the mound all he wants, I can't remember a team doing what the Twins did to Slowey before. It wasn't a shock he got hurt as a result of that usage and he had a right to be pissed. That's his career and his family's livelihood. He basically became the pariah for the awful 2011 season. It was incredibly unfair. So I'm merely rooting for the guy to succeed in spite of the Twins best efforts to mangle his career.

 

Baker got somewhat similar treatment, more of a manhood questioning check, than a character check.

[jokin]

Right.

 

But that doesn't fit into the narrative that the Twins don't know what they are doing. It's fine to note that Slowey has turned himself around (maybe!), but to critique the Twins while ignoring that he had two stints with two other clubs before signing a minor league deal with the Marlins seems purposefully inflammatory. Maybe it's not quite trolling, but the whole premise of the thread seems disingenuous to me.

 

In the face of the evidence you've conveniently ignored, the whole premise of your 2 posts seems disingenuous to me. Slowey has been unhealthy for the last 2 years- partially as a direct result by Twins management in the manner of his usage. Combine that self-inflicted wound with the media trashing campaign and perceived value was resultantly absolutely obliterated by the Twins.

[ThePuck]

Baker got somewhat similar treatment, more of a manhood questioning check, than a character check.

 

Not only that, but one of the reasons Baker wasn't ever considered for the bullpen was because they knew he'd have the same problems Slowey had doing it...but with him it was okay to not even try it. Slowey goes to the pen, tries it, he has issues with it, and when he speaks up, he's slammed. Slowey, I believe, also had the best ERA of all the ones in the 'ST Battle' for the rotation. Put that all together, and I think he had every right to be ticked off.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Just to be clear I think the conversation has spun a couple different ways. I don't begrudge the Twins for moving him - I thought it was a stupid move at the time (another sell-low move I railed against heavily) when the team had plenty of available pitching spots that they could've given to him to rebuild value. He may well have never rebuilt any value, but as we saw last year - it would've been hard for him to be any worse than what we had.

 

All that said, the whole "do what the team wants" should at least include the team not intentionally tossing around your career like it's worthless. Slowey has a right to not like the idea of being converted to a reliever in the manner they did it. They stretched him out all spring, never letting him believe his role would be anything but a starter. And then within a week of opening day they told him he'd be a reliever. And then, most baffling of all, in 3 OF THE FIRST 4 GAMES!!!, they used him as a one inning reliever.

 

Blackburn can lunchpail his sorry talent to the mound all he wants, I can't remember a team doing what the Twins did to Slowey before. It wasn't a shock he got hurt as a result of that usage and he had a right to be pissed. That's his career and his family's livelihood. He basically became the pariah for the awful 2011 season. It was incredibly unfair. So I'm merely rooting for the guy to succeed in spite of the Twins best efforts to mangle his career.

 

Slowey acted bigger than the team, and bigger than the game.

 

He was Kevin Slowey not C.C. Sabathia. Far better pitchers than Slowey with far better resumes than Slowey accepted bullpen demotions. He simply wasn't good enough to start, and should have accepted his role like a man.

 

Instead he whined his way off the team, & there were reports he failed to properly disclose injuries to the team doctors.

 

Quit painting Slowey like a victim. He's a professional baseball player not a martyr.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Not only that, but one of the reasons Baker wasn't ever considered for the bullpen was because they knew he'd have the same problems Slowey had doing it...but with him it was okay to not even try it. Slowey goes to the pen, tries it, he has issues with it, and when he speaks up, he's slammed. Slowey, I believe, also had the best ERA of all the ones in the 'ST Battle' for the rotation. Put that all together, and I think he had every right to be ticked off.

 

Or Baker at every level of his development was seen as a higher-value prospect. At that point in their respective careers the Twins and outside observers saw more value in Baker's stuff than Sloweys.

 

Slowey didn't speak up, he made demands and came across as a spoiled child.

[Aaron Cross]

I was disgusted by Bremer and Blyleven continuing their Slowey hatred on air this season. It was uncomfortable and they just kept going with it for a minute or more. Totally unprofessional and weird.

 

Neither should be in the booth. Blyleven should be Molitor's pitching coach, and Bremer should be unemployed.

[TheLeviathan]

Quit painting Slowey like a victim. He's a professional baseball player not a martyr.

 

Sorry but this is the standard response and it is nonsense. The truth is Slowey didn't earn a spot and that's on him. What is not on him is having days to switch from a once every five days starter (for several years) to a late inning reliever who pitches 1-2 innings three out of four days. In this day and age that is a radical adjustment that most players would struggle with much less an injury prone guy with less than a week to prepare. If they had used him in a Swarzak like role - I could understand. I literally cannot remember a team doing a conversion like that with a week before the season and then act on it so fast. It was stupid and selfish by the Twins, Slowey was simply upset about an idiotic handling of his situation.

[jokin]

& there were reports he failed to properly disclose injuries to the team doctors.

 

Gosh, I wonder where the source for those reports came from?

[Aaron Cross]

The Twins botched that one. Gardenhire couldn't have handled it worse. Blyleven and Bremer can stick it in their ear. If they were going to make Slowey a reliever, it had to be as a long man. A minimum of 3 innings every time he pitched. Roenicke pitched three innings in a long role against Baltimore. One of the few times Gardenhire has ever done that.

 

In games where the starter exits early, isn't a long man supposed to come in, eat innings, and save the bullpen? Instead 9 times out of 10 Gardy empties the bullpen for one inning each. Then acts exasperated when the bullpen is overworked. Using Slowey CORRECTLY in a long man role was the only way moving him to the bullpen made sense.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Sorry but this is the standard response and it is nonsense. The truth is Slowey didn't earn a spot and that's on him. What is not on him is having days to switch from a once every five days starter (for several years) to a late inning reliever who pitches 1-2 innings three out of four days. In this day and age that is a radical adjustment that most players would struggle with much less an injury prone guy with less than a week to prepare. If they had used him in a Swarzak like role - I could understand. I literally cannot remember a team doing a conversion like that with a week before the season and then act on it so fast. It was stupid and selfish by the Twins, Slowey was simply upset about an idiotic handling of his situation.

 

Not quite a comparable situation... but Aroldis Chapman went from being stretched out as a starter to a closer in a similar time frame.

 

Liriano went to a similar role mid-season last year, then went back into the starting rotation.

 

It's amazing the excuses people will make for a AAAA pitcher who just couldn't hack it in the majors.

[Aaron Cross]

Gosh, I wonder where the source for those reports came from?

Ain't that the truth. Plus, even if those reports are true, can you blame him for withholding info from the worst medical staff in MLB?