What was Gardy talking about/referring to?

[Mr. Brooks]

Came across this on the Strib site:

 

"Your starter goes into the eighth without giving up a run," Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. "He had a five-hit shutout. He got one pitch up and it got to the gap. They got a big hit there. The hit-and-run (by Escobar) was incredible. That ball was almost over his head. That's a hell of job by Escobar to get the bat on the ball.

 

Correia collapses in 8th, Twins lose to Kansas City 3-1 | StarTribune.com

 

Which AB was Gardy referring to? If he was referring to the Escobar double in the 8th that scored Gordon, then I'm not sure where he is going with this, as the ball was right down the middle:

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/numlocation_io.php?pitchSel=429781&game=gid_2013_04_08_minmlb_kcamlb_1/&batterX=61&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3

[Brad Swanson]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

[Linus]

I posted this on a different thread but Gardy blew this one big time and I am usually a supporter. they started squaring him up in the 6th and Gardy let him hang out there in his seond start. He should have been on a "one batter at a time" leash for the 8th. You get 7 good innings from Correia in his second start of the season, you take it and run.

[ashbury]

Also left out of Gardy's explanation was the difference in a 3-0 lead and a 1-0 lead. Doesn't matter how good he has pitched so far, the #1 priority is to win the game and egos be damned. Warm up the lefty and the righty to start the 8th, send Kevin out there and then replace him the first time there's a base runner. Kevin's been around a while, he knows the drill; you just don't mess around when it's 1-0.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Escobar is very short.

[Mr. Brooks]

LOL, the FSN evening replay of the game just happens to be in the 8th inning now, so I took a snapshot.

If this really is the AB Gardy is referring to (and he didn't just misspeak), then I'm seriously left scratching my head at what he is talking about!!

 

[TheLeviathan]

The better idea was simple to me - pitch around Gordon - nothing good to hit. Then let Burton work to Escobar hoping for a double play. It's a bit scary to think Correia is getting this much love-fest from Gardy already.

[Mr. Brooks]

The better idea was simple to me - pitch around Gordon - nothing good to hit. Then let Burton work to Escobar hoping for a double play. It's a bit scary to think Correia is getting this much love-fest from Gardy already.

 

Ok, lets stay on topic though.

What exactly is in Gardy's pipe, for him to see this pitch as "almost over his head"?

I mean, maybe he just has a VERY liberal definition of the word 'almost'?

[Willihammer]

I posted this on a different thread but Gardy blew this one big time and I am usually a supporter. they started squaring him up in the 6th and Gardy let him hang out there in his seond start. He should have been on a "one batter at a time" leash for the 8th. You get 7 good innings from Correia in his second start of the season, you take it and run.

 

Yeah, I actually felt sorry for Correia. 8th inning, runner on 3rd, 1 out, 1-0 game, you need a strikeout. He didn't get it of course, he only has two on the year. Literally anyone out of the bullpen would have been a better choice than Correia in that spot.

[ashbury]

Escobar is very short.

 

Yes, it is little reported that Eddie Gaedel is the only major league player ever to walk and strike out in the same plate appearance.

[TheLeviathan]

I mean, maybe he just has a VERY liberal definition of the word 'almost'?

 

But that's what I mean. Is Gardy already so much in love with Correia that we've entered the kind of delusion usually reserved for slappy, head-first sliding middle infielders? If so, that's scary. And could very easily explain the insanely stupid strategy in the eighth.

[ashbury]

It's a bit scary to think Correia is getting this much love-fest from Gardy already.

 

A crazy idea just occurred to me that can't possibly be true: is Gardenhire less than enthused about the talent Ryan obtained over the winter, and was today passive-aggressively saying in effect "OK, so this is my ace? Here's how you manage an ace."

[Mr. Brooks]

Yes, it is little reported that Eddie Gaedel is the only major league player ever to walk and strike out in the same plate appearance.

 

Ok, this combined with the team shown earlier that lost 0 to negative 1 is too much mind blowing for my brain to handle in one day, if true.

[Kwak]

While I was surprised that KC began the 8th, it takes some real result-mechandizing to criticize that decision. Need a K? From what bullpen are you talking about? Perkins is the only RP (SP as well) to have something like a 50% liklihood of a K in that AB. I think, criticism should be directed at those swinging the bat rather than Gardenhire, KC, or any other pitcher used. There were plenty of innings that could have been used to "break open" the game. The Twins' staff can't be expected to hold every one-run lead.

[TheLeviathan]

A crazy idea just occurred to me that can't possibly be true: is Gardenhire less than enthused about the talent Ryan obtained over the winter, and was today passive-aggressively saying in effect "OK, so this is my ace? Here's how you manage an ace."

 

A crazy, scary idea indeed. I'd almost appreciate it if I thought it'd matter.

[ThePuck]

sorry, a little off topic...but had to let y'all know

 

The MLB Tonight crew were just talking about Nathan...and the one guy said If he was pitching ANY PLACE OTHER THAN MINNESOTA...he got lost in the shuffle pitching for the Twins...if it had been in New York or Chicago or Boston, a team more the National stage, people would have seen him more. He's a terrific pitcher.

Any place other than Minnesota...WOW!

[LaBombo]

Yes, it is little reported that Eddie Gaedel is the only major league player ever to walk and strike out in the same plate appearance.

 

http://mediacdn.snorgcontent.com/media/catalog/product/s/c/schrodingerscat_fullpic.jpg

[bear333]

Came across this on the Strib site:

 

"Your starter goes into the eighth without giving up a run," Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. "He had a five-hit shutout. He got one pitch up and it got to the gap. They got a big hit there. The hit-and-run (by Escobar) was incredible. That ball was almost over his head. That's a hell of job by Escobar to get the bat on the ball.

 

Correia collapses in 8th, Twins lose to Kansas City 3-1 | StarTribune.com

 

Which AB was Gardy referring to? If he was referring to the Escobar double in the 8th that scored Gordon, then I'm not sure where he is going with this, as the ball was right down the middle:

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/numlocation_io.php?pitchSel=429781&game=gid_2013_04_08_minmlb_kcamlb_1/&batterX=61&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3

Bringing Correia out for the 8th was Gardy's first bad call of the season. That situation is similar to the call to punt in football. It was Correia's second start and seven innings wasn't enough? Really? You bring in your set up guy and your closer every time in that situation. The score is 1-0 in the eighth - You punt - you bring in Burton and Perkins. I was listening to that whole game and when Gardy trotted out Correia in the eighth, I turned the radio off. I knew the game was lost and so did everyone else listening. I like our manager a lot, but he will never manage a team past a division title.

[Old Twins Cap]

Point is, you want your players to feel good about their contributions. Corriea had it in spades. At most you let him pitch into the 8th until a runner gets on. At that point, the pitcher CANNOT lose the game. The definition of success for a starting pitcher. Gardy fell in love with the idea of Correia being unbeatable in this game. His fantasy likely cost the Twins the game.

[bear333]

Also left out of Gardy's explanation was the difference in a 3-0 lead and a 1-0 lead. Doesn't matter how good he has pitched so far, the #1 priority is to win the game and egos be damned. Warm up the lefty and the righty to start the 8th, send Kevin out there and then replace him the first time there's a base runner. Kevin's been around a while, he knows the drill; you just don't mess around when it's 1-0.

If this was the middle of the season and KC had already pitched eight innings of ball more than once it works. But for his second start, when he has no track record with us? It was the wrong call, period.

[clutterheart]

A crazy idea just occurred to me that can't possibly be true: is Gardenhire less than enthused about the talent Ryan obtained over the winter, and was today passive-aggressively saying in effect "OK, so this is my ace? Here's how you manage an ace."

 

Maybe.

As has been pointed out many times, Ryan set Gardy up to fail this year.

 

Too bad Gardy has to play along.

[StormJH1]

I saw the quotes live and thought it was pretty consistent with Gardy's role as a "player's manager". When he started talking about this being "Correia's game" and he "deserved" the right to get out of the jam, it made me cringe and reminded me of this scene from The American President:

 

[video=youtube;YnKV34oNXiw]

 

(0:45 mark). I like Gardy, and the bullpen probably gives up those runs even had he managed it differently. But sometimes I wish there was a Michael J. Fox character in that dugout to remind Gardy that his loyalties should be towards the team and doing whatever gives him the best chance of winning, not avoiding hurting Kevin Correia/Annette Bening's feelings.

[Mike Sixel]

A couple of thoughts:

 

1. I have no issue with leaving Correia out there. He had been great so far this year, and had a reasonable pitch count. That said, I did not see the previous innings to know if they were figuring him out or not.

 

2. Ryan did not set up Gardy to fail. He cut costs and built for the future, like he always does. I think that has nothing to do with Gardy.

 

3. I never try to figure out what Gardy, Dickbert, or the radio guys are saying. It is unlikely anything they say really matters all that much, frankly. Best to ignore them.

[jay]

It's true that he was at a reasonable pitch count, but with a 1-run lead on the road... it doesn't seem hard to fathom that you'd want a decent reliever ready to come in if someone gets on base. Gardy didn't even have Burton get up until Cain had already laced that double.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see how one hit means pull a guy that has kept a team scoreless. It's one hit.

[jokin]

A couple of thoughts:

 

 

 

 

3. I never try to figure out what Gardy, Dickbert, or the radio guys are saying. It is unlikely anything they say really matters all that much, frankly. Best to ignore them.

 

Hey, you said 'a couple' of thoughts.

 

Anyway, how do you feel about the cogent insights of Whatshername, you know, the latest female version of Robby Inkydinkydoo?

[stringer bell]

Those of you that follow another game--politics--understand the concept of "spin". Gardenhire's public utterances, DickBert's comments and even some of Terry Ryan's quotes all go under that category. Compared to other GMs, Ryan is a straight shooter, but his statements are out there to further the current agenda, same with Gardy and the broadcasters.

[jokin]

Those of you that follow another game--politics--understand the concept of "spin". Gardenhire's public utterances, DickBert's comments and even some of Terry Ryan's quotes all go under that category. Compared to other GMs, Ryan is a straight shooter, but his statements are out there to further the current agenda, same with Gardy and the broadcasters.

 

True, except let me amend that to say that some of DicknBerts and Gardy's comments are, in fact, first uttered by Terry Ryan, who sets the current party line agenda. the others, including other members of the media, become witting, or unwitting, apparatchik mouthpieces for that agenda.

[jay]

I don't see how one hit means pull a guy that has kept a team scoreless. It's one hit.

 

You've never seen a starter pulled before he can take the loss after a solid day? Seems to be something I've seen an awful lot.

[fairweather]

The loss is definitely on Gardy. The Twins have 2 pitchers on the staff that can be trusted to shut down any part of pretty much any line-up. Those 2 guys are Burton and Perkins. Those 2 guys should work the 8th and 9th respectively anytime they are available in a 1 run game. Especially when you consider who the Twins starters are!