Jason Frasor

[old nurse]

Yup, I was going from memory on my phone, when I fact checked I edited. Broxton did not net two "c" prospects (though, why does it matter, the Royals turned a one year deal into long-term potential, which is the whole point you were rejecting), he landed two players that had been ranked in the Red's top 10 prior to the year. Maholm and Correia are not similar in anything but the position they play.

 

Even still, because you seem to have forgotten your initial errant comment, the point is players do sign contracts when there is a high degree of likelihood that they will be dealt. They accept that trade-off for an opportunity (like closing in Broxton's case and a rotation spot for Maholm). It isn't that hard, you're arguing something patently false.

 

Yes. Any player knows that unless they have a no trade contract they can be traded at any time. Any fan knows that. The point I should have made clear is that it is neither a common practice nor a good practice to do that with people you are essentially recruiting to come work for you. When a player gets somewhere, they or the team might not find they are a fit. Hollins was an example of that. So long ago I forgot the details. Guthrie got traded to Colorado. It was not a fit. Life was so good once he got to KC, he really did not appear to test the free agent waters.

[TheLeviathan]

Life was so good once he got to KC, he really did not appear to test the free agent waters.

 

I'm sure it had little to do with 3 years and 25M being offered.

[old nurse]

Well, at least we've moved on from that foolish assertion you made initially. Not all of these contracts are worth it and Frasor is not anything special, but 2Mish money is a drop in the bucket when you're looking at a 25M reduction in big league payroll. At this point you're looking at 25M flushed into the owners pockets or 2M gambled (at whatever odds, you may be right that they aren't great odds) on helping the future. I don't see how anyone can argue that they, as a fan, don't prefer the gamble. And it's perfectly ok, given the amount of available salary, for fans to be pissed that we aren't taking those gambles.

 

Then be pissed that they are not signing players with upside rather than jockeying for scrap heap (as others have called them) players. Signing a Sean West

 

I know personally, as someone who has given literally given over a thousand dollars to this team over the course of TF's existence (as a season ticket holder and dedicated consumer of Kramarczuk's brats) I've paid more than my share to be pissed at the ownership pocketing money after campaigning hard after the season to keep all of us by promising major changes. (I can assure you, as a season ticket holder, that they were just short of harassment in how much they pleaded with me not to cancel) So this smug campaign you and others are on to silence frustration is pretty damn irritating.

 

Be frustrated that they are not signing players with upside rather than scrap heap recycled below average pitchers that may be slightly better than the Twins. Sign a Sean West type and hope everything works out. Be upset that Dozier and Floriman are right now the next couple years future at MI. That I understand.

[old nurse]

Backloaded to make him untradeable after this year. A good enough peripherals to maybe have gotten closer to 30

 

And you can still go to Kramarczuks on East Hennepin and eat your sorrows away.

[TheLeviathan]

Be frustrated that they are not signing players with upside .

 

Frasor has plenty of upside. He's been a good reliever in his career and would be a fine upgrade over someone like Robertson.

 

Also, my brain just cramped with the idea that we shouldn't sign scrap heap, crappy pitchers....but should sign Sean West. West certainly has upside as a gamble, but so does Frasor. The difference is, Frasor has actually been a capable to good MLB player. Which makes him a much better, albeit more expensive, gamble.

[twinsnorth49]

Well, at least we've moved on from that foolish assertion you made initially. Not all of these contracts are worth it and Frasor is not anything special, but 2Mish money is a drop in the bucket when you're looking at a 25M reduction in big league payroll. At this point you're looking at 25M flushed into the owners pockets or 2M gambled (at whatever odds, you may be right that they aren't great odds) on helping the future. I don't see how anyone can argue that they, as a fan, don't prefer the gamble. And it's perfectly ok, given the amount of available salary, for fans to be pissed that we aren't taking those gambles.

 

I know personally, as someone who has given literally given over a thousand dollars to this team over the course of TF's existence (as a season ticket holder and dedicated consumer of Kramarczuk's brats) I've paid more than my share to be pissed at the ownership pocketing money after campaigning hard after the season to keep all of us by promising major changes. (I can assure you, as a season ticket holder, that they were just short of harassment in how much they pleaded with me not to cancel) So this smug campaign you and others are on to silence frustration is pretty damn irritating.

 

I'll assume I'm one of the others, as I've been called out before. I am in no way trying to silence your's or anyone else's frustration, we just have a few degrees of separation on what makes us frustrated and how we express it. Not signing the likes of Jason Frasor and Sean West really doesn't make me anymore bothered than I already am. I get your point about what you feel it represents but for me it's more of a pick your battles type of scenario, not one really worth getting too worked up about.

[old nurse]

Robertson is a lefty. Different role.

[johnnydakota]

There weren't enough free agents on the market to fix this team in one offseason. I'm not real happy about how things have played out, but if anything I don't think Ryan has gone far enough in trading away "limited resources".

 

Also, I think you're overrating Revere.

 

i agree with not going far enough , to me the twins are straddling the fense , trying to fool the casual fans into believing we will do something and trying to add a piece or 2 on the sly.. which shows me they care only for profit margines and not the game...

As for me i would much rather trade away joe justin and josh now and jaime ,doumit and perkins at the allstar break and watch quality prospects then suffer through a non factor season of watching the results of dumpster diving

[johnnydakota]

It doesn't have to be Frasor. But this team has publically declared their comfort with being done this offseason. When you see talent like Frasor still out there for reasonable price tags - that is hard to swallow with the amount of budget room left.

 

Your forgetting the year end bonuses for reducing payroll.....

[TheLeviathan]

Robertson is a lefty. Different role.

 

Yeah, but he's not a very good lefty and he's the third lefty in the pen, I'd gladly keep him in AAA as a injury replace for a guy who has actually been a good MLB reliever.

[snepp]

Robertson is a lefty. Different role.

 

Amusing, coming from the guy that equated Brian Duensing and Mickey Storey to having the same role.

[old nurse]

Amusing, coming from the guy that equated Brian Duensing and Mickey Storey to having the same role.

Mickey Story? When was that? a few months ago? Amusing that you would remember that. I am so touched you remember what I write.. Not really. You really remember what people write in detail? Wow.

[snepp]

I have the tendency to remember inane things.

[old nurse]

There has been plenty here for you to remember.

[jokin]

There has been plenty here for you to remember.

 

And a heartfelt "thankyou" for all your efforts in that regard...

[jokin]

Amusing, coming from the guy that equated Brian Duensing and Mickey Storey to having the same role.

 

Doubly amusing, being that he is also claiming that Maholm = Correia

[twinsnorth49]

And a heartfelt "thankyou" for all your efforts in that regard...

 

What, no congratulating yourself as well? Unlike you.

[jokin]

Someone asked me to show them where a diatribe was earlier......exhibit A.

 

Yes, facts are difficult things to argue against, not so hard to characterize.

[twinsnorth49]

Yes, facts are difficult things to argue against, not so hard to characterize.

 

1. I've never argued a single "fact" you brought up, stop being defensive.

 

2. I never said anything about the "facts", just the 1000 words it took to state them.....again.

[jokin]

 

See Miami for what that does for the integrity of the organization.

 

 

Miami Marlins 20 year history as a franchise, 1993-2012: 1504/1668

MN Twins 20 year history record from 1993-2012: 1545/1627

 

Miami World Series Championships: 2

MN Twins World Series Chamships" 0

 

Notwithstanding this offseason Marlin debacle, at least Miami historically in the short history of the franchise, has had enough "integrity' to build and rebuild a team from scratch and then go out, under different ownership groups, and attempt (and succeed twice) in a concerted effort at winning it all.

 

Don't kid yourself in your kneejerk Twins FO defense, both teams are part of the same hypocrisy. Since that's the case, I'll take the 2 WS titles by the Marlins since '97.

[jokin]

1. I've never argued a single "fact" you brought up, stop being defensive.

 

2. I never said anything about the "facts", just the 1000 words it took to state them.....again.

 

When someone is perjoratively attacked (not necessarily you) with little-to-nothing to offer in substantive refutation, the facts are the best defense, even if it takes a few extra sentences of reiteration to attempt to knock some sense into the flamethrower. I'd rather discuss and flesh out the issues around a topic, but when non-substantively attacked, I find little aid in your admonishment to stop being defensive (there is no requirement on your part that you read my post as it was directed specifically in response to the attacker), the best defense against an attack is defending yourself with facts.

[jokin]

What, no congratulating yourself as well? Unlike you.

 

Facts are curious things, indeed.

 

Look upthread and try to follow more closely, the guy in question admitted himself that he is mostly talking out of his posterior in an attempt to stir the pot.

[old nurse]

Doubly amusing, being that he is also claiming that Maholm = Correia

Levathian made the point that there were people a team signed who could be traded. In that sense Maholm+Correia. I guess I just didn't make it simple enough or you couldn't follow the thread. I guess next time I will have to write it in the minutest detail for you to understand.

[old nurse]

What, no congratulating yourself as well? Unlike you.

jokin missed the sarcasm.

[PseudoSABR]

Facts are curious things, indeed.

Especially when you make them up!

[johnnydakota]

Miami Marlins 20 year history as a franchise, 1993-2012: 1504/1668

MN Twins 20 year history record from 1993-2012: 1545/1627

 

Miami World Series Championships: 2

MN Twins World Series Chamships" 0

 

Notwithstanding this offseason Marlin debacle, at least Miami historically in the short history of the franchise, has had enough "integrity' to build and rebuild a team from scratch and then go out, under different ownership groups, and attempt (and succeed twice) in a concerted effort at winning it all.

 

Don't kid yourself in your kneejerk Twins FO defense, both teams are part of the same hypocrisy. Since that's the case, I'll take the 2 WS titles by the Marlins since '97.

personally i think the twins should sign and trade a little more like miami , that is 1 way to build a farm system

[Brock Beauchamp]

Miami Marlins 20 year history as a franchise, 1993-2012: 1504/1668

MN Twins 20 year history record from 1993-2012: 1545/1627

 

Miami World Series Championships: 2

MN Twins World Series Chamships" 0

 

Notwithstanding this offseason Marlin debacle, at least Miami historically in the short history of the franchise, has had enough "integrity' to build and rebuild a team from scratch and then go out, under different ownership groups, and attempt (and succeed twice) in a concerted effort at winning it all.

 

Don't kid yourself in your kneejerk Twins FO defense, both teams are part of the same hypocrisy. Since that's the case, I'll take the 2 WS titles by the Marlins since '97.

 

Miami launched a new stadium last season and was 18th in attendance. The Twins were awful from day one and still managed to be 12th in attendance in the third season of their new park.

 

Miami may win occasionally but I have the feeling if you ask around southern Florida what they think of their ownership, the vast majority of Marlins fans would gladly switch places with Twins fans. Our ownership may be cheap but at least they're consistent and don't kick the feet out from under their fanbase every 3-5 years.

[Highabove]

This year, the Twins are kicking the feet out from under their Fan Base. Last place Team. Cut the payroll by 20%.

I won't even get into the promises made to the Season Ticket Holders.

 

There's still some time to change this scenario.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This year, the Twins are kicking the feet out from under their Fan Base. Last place Team. Cut the payroll by 20%.

I won't even get into the promises made to the Season Ticket Holders.

 

There's still some time to change this scenario.

 

Don't confuse my statement above with an approval of this offseason. I'm very disappointed that Ryan has failed to sign a legitimate arm for the rotation. Still, that's better than trading off nearly every player making over $1m and not getting much in return. What Ryan got for Span and Revere is better than what the Marlins got for 1/4th their roster.