The "Firings" that were not.

[ltwedt]

One interesting thing about this. Can someone clarify for me. Does this mean that the Twins are increasing their ML staff? Wasn't infield/outfield instruction previously handled by coaches?

 

No and Yes.

 

IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach.

 

So here are your "new" Twins' coaches:

 

Gardy: manager

Andy: Pitching

Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B)

Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B)

 

and 3 openings:

 

Glynn: Bench

Bruno: Hitting

Cuellar: Bullpen

 

Awww - . . . and NOT the Dazzle Man?

[PseudoSABR]

Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT

What happened yesterday was misleading

and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity

(to make myself clear).

You're overreacting, turbo.

From the PP:

Hitting coach Joe Vavra and bench coach Scott Ullger will stay with the Twins but with new job assignments. Vavra will become the team's infield coach, while Ullger will become the outfield coach. Ryan said both are likely to take on added responsibilities that could involve coaching first or third base. Gardenhire would make those decisions.

[JB_Iowa]

Well, this argument is about semantics apparently.

 

It is pretty clear from that quote that Vavra and Ullger have merely been reassigned (new positions created) but it is also clear thtat they WERE NOT FIRED or NON-RENEWED.

 

And we all remember seeing how good Ullger was as the 3B coach a couple of years ago (heaven help us).

 

But yep, this was pretty much a public relations ploy and nothing else.

 

Leaves me with very little respect for this organization or those who run it.

[Badsmerf]

Did anyone really expect different? It starts with the top and there needs to be some new blood.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

This whole fiasco has been mishandled.

 

Some said Gardy threatened to quit if Anderson was canned which should have happened--the Twins have the worst pitching...I wonder also if he threatened to walk (go to Cleveland) if Vavra was gone (he has done a good job. I also wonder if Mauer and Morneau spoke up for Vavra...

 

This is a mess...I also think press premature running of rumors makes it look worse than it is...of course the press does that routinely.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

The worst thing about this is the impact on the offseason restocking of the roster. Any chance a decent pitcher would come here as a free agent is gone--he knows that Andy and Gardy are lame ducks. Morneau's slight trade value (14 million contract, one concussion from forced retirement) has dropped cause he is unhappy. Just a mess.

[one_eyed_jack]

So are you for or against hiring outside the organization? How about bringing in some new blood with a proven successful track record that might have a different approach to the "same old, same old" "Twins Way"?

 

---Totally for, I'm with you 100% on this. My preference would have been a total housecleaning and new faces brought in from outside. (I probably wasn't clear, but when I pointed to those guys you mentioned not being former Twins, I meant that as a good thing.)

[ScottyB]

 

No and Yes.

 

IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach.

 

So here are your "new" Twins' coaches:

 

Gardy: manager

Andy: Pitching

Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B)

Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B)

 

and 3 openings:

 

Glynn: Bench

Bruno: Hitting

Cuellar: Bullpen

 

I believe you are incorrect - check the Twins web site. Major league coaches are Gardy and Anderson. Ullger and Vavra are listed as Minor league OF Coordinator and IF Coordinator, not as major league coaches. I think we are getting new bodies in the BP, 1B Coach, 3B Coach, Bench, and Hitting. Six coaches and a manager is the limit until September, just like a 25 man limit on the roster until September. Other duties will be assigned (i.e. OF / IF coaching).

[maxisagod]

[

 

Hold it.

 

Yesterday. Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT

What happened yesterday was misleading

and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity

(to make myself clear).

 

Speaks to to Ryan's integrity... huh. I would say it speaks the quality of reporting yesterday. I don't remember Ryan giving any quotes about who was fired and who wasn't before the press conference. Not that it matters, it sounds like the Polands have Ryans back even if there is another 6 seasons of below 500 ball. Gardy and Andy have been give a year to turn it around. I agree with thrylos, it looks like Scottie and Vavry are on the corners, the Twins must be convinced they have futures, if not with us, then elsewhere. Given Scotties dislike for 3rd base, I see him as our 1st base coach. If Grady is let go next year his replacement will either be Molitor, Glynn, or Ullger. My votes for Gene Glynn.

[stringer bell]

I guess I saw that Vavra and Ullger were reassigned from the get-go. The Twins are going to have a new hitting coach and a new bullpen coach. I don't know if anyone is guaranteed a job (Brunansky, Cuellar, and Glynn). In the coaching staff, they need to get younger, add at least one Hispanic coach and maybe someone that changes the atmosphere a little.

 

I don't think the coaches should be scapegoats, but making changes after losing 195 games in two years should happen. The dynamics of the staff changes aren't available to us. I don't want to speculate and I don't think it is fair to do so.

[mnfireman]

Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.

[diehardtwinsfan]

as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past. I know that many would have given their right arm to see Ulger canned, and it looks like that is essentially what happened (at least to the extent that he's no longer working with the major league franchise). I'm not quite sure Vavra deserved it, and I don't get your hate of Anderson. I do think it's good that they are bringing in some fresh blood. Hopefully continues with the head of the medical staff and then some players.

[Brock Beauchamp]

as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.

 

Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.

[Westgaard66]

I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

 

Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

 

The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.

[Giles Ferrell]

I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

 

Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

 

The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.

 

Agreed. Try the new guys, but if the team show no signs of life, clean the whole house.

[Lesser Dali]

3 things to comment on -

 

1. It's to bad about Molitor not being a fit for one of our coaching vacancies. I am not sure what kind of impact Molitor would have had at the end of the day, but with him being one of the best offensive tradesmen of his era might have had a better than decent impact on the position players who will be on the roster next season. His expert baserunning knowledge could have played well with a guy like Revere. I understand that Molitor coaches the players in spring training, but to have access to a coach with Molitor's experience and uber success on a day in and day out basis would have much more of an impact than only spring training.

 

2. There are 3 places that Ben Revere will be next season.

a. Starting in the outfield for the Twins

b. A bench player on the Twins MLB roster

c. Starting in the OF in Rochester

 

He has no trade value, thus he will not be traded

 

3. If Vavra and Ullger indeed become the base coaches for the Twins - I will lose no sleep, I will not punch a hole in the wall, I will go about my daily business as I always do. Whether it is right or wrong - the world will not end - Unless you are a 2012 Mayan Calendar conspiracy theorist. Good Luck with that nonsense.

[PseudoSABR]

as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.

 

Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.

Well said.

[PseudoSABR]

Here's an update from the strib. fyi

General Manager Terry Ryan plans to meet with Gardenhire in Fort Myers, Fla., later this week to discuss the team's coaching openings, but the timing of that meeting will hinge on the health of Gardenhire's mother.

It's unclear what roles Ullger and Vavra will have moving forward, but Ullger's duties will include outfield instruction and Vavra's will include infield instruction.

[Willihammer]

Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.

Maybe the FO is milking this period as long as the media and fans continue to mischaracterize some of these moves as "firings," seeing that some fans are satiated by it. Certainly there is no one muzzling Gardy lamenting to the media about losing staff and not being offered an extension.

 

How did this even become particularly newsworthy? There are no guaranteed extensions in any occupation, certainly not sports, and certainly not if you haven't received one by mid-season. The season is over, the contracts expired, that's all.

 

Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.

 

Maybe this story whole thing has taken off better than anyone in the FO could have expected.

[PseudoSABR]

Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.

I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."

[joeboo_22]

I really don't understand this Vavra, Ullger stuff. Are they coaches or are they instructors? Ullger should not be a base coach. Was worse then Liddle at 3B and Liddle wasn't great. Vavra I thought did alright as a batting coach. But I only want 1 batting coach on the traveling, gameday coaching staff. I don't want half my players going to Vavra and half going to Bruno. That is only going to cause problems.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens none the least. But I guess I just don't understand the reassigned which is really just a job change. Reassigned made it sound like they are still in the organization but no longer coaches. But what do I know

[MWLFan]

I don't understand the Molitor chorus. I say this honestly and not trying to be cute. What are his qualifications for the job of manager? His 3000 hits and Hall of Fame career only take you so far here. Ted Williams was the maybe the best hitter ever and stunk as a Manager. Babe Ruth was turned down several times to a be manager of a few teams. Ryne Sandberg is working his way up through the minors, riding buses in the Midwest League a few years ago. So what level has Paul managed at? Why is he a better fit then say Gene Glynn. What are his people skills like, how does he handle it when discipline needs to be applied, what about when a different approach needs to be used for different personalities?

 

Not saying he can't do it, but what is his track record. I mean you can go all Kenny Williams and turn a mulit million dollar franchise over to a person with no managerial back ground because he has 3000 hits and is from St. Paul, see Robin "Can you stop pounding my head Mr. Ryan" Ventura, and hope that lightning strikes. But could you see the Vikings pulling say Fran Tarkenton back to be Head Coach or the Timberwolves bringing in JR Rider? (Got admit that last one would be fun.) Maybe Mr. Molitor should go to at least Rochester and build that Resume and see if he can succeed in the job and also if he really likes the job. He may not like it as much as he thinks.

[Willihammer]

Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.

I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."

 

Is that true? I am having a hard time finding out for sure. In the Mackey article, he says all the coaches signed 2 years extensions after 2010, except Gardy