Rick Stelmaszek fired

[JB_Iowa]

 

Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact.

 

More's the pity. I think he may have sacrificed the edges to save the core. We'll have to see if that's the way it plays out.

 

You make it sound like this is a ploy to pacify the fans while not making real changes:).

 

I think you are correct, though, that Anderson's job is probably safe. My guess is the reason for letting Stelmaszek go was they wanted to bring Cuellar up and needed a spot for him, and Stellie was considered more expendable than Anderson.

 

Well, you know I'm a cynic about this. I actually think it has to do with the fact that Gardenhire and Anderson have been together "forever". Not sure of how long his history is with Ullger but it is definitely longer on the major league team than it is with Vavra.

[LaBombo]

An organization that employs Scott Ullger doesn't deserve to win.

[nicksaviking]

So can we assume Cuellar will be more involved in grooming pitchers than Stelly? I don't think he should be wasted baby-sitting the guys in the pen instead of teaching the guys one step away from the MLB rotation. If he's going to be used essentially as co-pitching coach with Anderson, I think it's a great idea. I proposed earlier the Twins should have two hitting coaches to provide enough time to breaking down tape and refining the hitting approaches of the many young hitters. The same would be a good idea with the pitchers.

[Mike Sixel]

So rather than have cuelleler work with young guys, he will now work with older guys that pitch 60 innings a year? Seems an odd use of a valuable resource. It also seems like scapegoating to me to fire the bullpen coach.

[Willihammer]

the only one actually fired is Liddle, correct?

[SweetOne69]

the only one actually fired is Liddle, correct?

 

Technically no one was fired, but both Stelly and Liddle are not having their contracts renewed for 2013.

[Willihammer]

There you go. No one's feelings are hurt but I only wonder if 2013 will be a punt

[Winston Smith]

"Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact."

It would appear so. It may be time for a contest to name the three ____________ examples are: little pigs, kings, amigos, blind mice, horsemen, musketeers, wise-men and my favorite stooges!

[Mr. Ed]

I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

 

They were speculating on the radio that Jake Mauer might get it.

 

Jeff Smith deserves it more than Jake.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

 

They were speculating on the radio that Jake Mauer might get it.

 

Jeff Smith deserves it more than Jake.

 

Apparently, according to R&M, Smith is not thought of as highly in the organization and is unlikely to be advanced beyond where he is now.

[joeboo_22]

I don't have a problem with Jake Mauer at AAA, though I think he is better in Florida.

 

Other then Liddle at 3B I didn't think the other coaches were doing too bad of a job. I'm guessing that this points to a better get better or its your @$$ next year for Gardy. You don't fire 3-4 coaches and get much slack.

[JB_Iowa]

I don't know what it points to but it does seem to me that we're still seeing a refusal to bring in talent from outside the organization. I'm waiting to see if the front office also remains stagnant. While Cuellar, Brunansky and Glynn may have deserved promotions, is that the best thing for Rochester -- or more importantly, for the big league club if they need to be developing young players? I asked that once earlier this season -- how should we be looking at where certain coaches do the most good?

 

Nothing that has happened today gives me any cause for celebration or any true indication that things are much different. I'll be interested to see how this all plays out but so far it is looking like "appeasement" and not much more.

[J-Dog Dungan]

Yeah, for those who were saying that this isn't a major shakeup is just kinda wrong. LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

[JB_Iowa]

And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

 

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

[Dilligaf69]

And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

 

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

 

Gardy has only one more yr left so it's make or break for him next yr....again not that big a deal. The Twins don't have the talent up and down the roster especially the starting rotation.

[JB_Iowa]

For those of you who proclaim this as a big shake-up in the Twins coaching staff, I'd like to point out that it may be a shake-up (although how big is questionable) but it certainly isn't an overhaul.

 

If you had been asked at the beginning of the day, "who are the 4 primary (or top) coaches in the Twins major league organizaton"? What would you have responded?

 

I know that my own response (and I would guess a lot of people's response) would have been Ron Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, Joe Vavra and Scott Ullger.

 

Well guess what? All 4 of them still have jobs with the major league club. (That could still change but at least from Bollinger's article on mlb.com, it looks like the firings are over). Yes, Vavra and Ullger were reassigned -- but again, WITH the major league club to something called infield and outfield instructors.

 

Who was not retained? 64 year old bullpen coach Rick Stelmazek, 60 year old 1st base coach Jerry White and Steve Liddle (who had apparently had the good sense prior to this to say he was going to retire).

 

Yes, Head Trainer Rick McWane was also fired but that is a front office position that should be discussed seperately.

 

Before today, when you thought about the Twins' difficulties of the last 2 years, would you have said: "Well, Liddle, Stelly and White are the problems?"

 

Of course not.

 

They may only be on 1 year contracts now but Gardenhire, Anderson, Vavra and Ullger have still not taken any responsiblity for the debacle of the last 2 years.

 

And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

[drjim]

And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

 

You do realize the general manager was fired less than a year ago right?

[PseudoSABR]

LEN3 says Ulger is out too.http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/172663381.html

 

Bullpen coach Rick Stelmaszek, third base coach Steve Liddle, first base coach Jerry White and head trainer Rick McWane have been let go, while hitting coach Joe Vavra and bench coach Scott Ullger will oversee infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

[one_eyed_jack]

I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

 

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

 

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.

[DaveW]

And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

 

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

 

Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

 

Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.

[DaveW]

With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.

 

How exactly is Anderson the problem?

 

Also I think Bruno should be given some credit for Revere as well. Did anyone hear if Molitor is joining the staff? That would be awesome.

[PseudoSABR]

LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.

[jokin]

And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

 

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

 

Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

 

Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.

 

How about 2 bad seasons? How many managers/pitching coaches keep their jobs after being the worst team in the league for two straight years?

 

On the bright side, with the Astros joining the AL next year, Ryan/Gardy/Anderson can falsely claim "Improvement" in 2013- by illicitly inflating their win total to 70+ and NOT being the worst team in the league- --

 

so there is that....

[Jim Crikket]

I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

 

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

 

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

 

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

 

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

 

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

[Jim Crikket]

Frankly, the more I think about today's news, the more I wonder if the Twins haven't essentially told Gardenhire that 2013 will be his final year as manager, win lose or draw. They're allowing him to keep his closest friends on staff for his final year, but cleared room to install the core of eventual successors, as well.

[spideyo]

Maybe they can make Bobby Valentine the new 3b coach...

[jokin]

LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.

 

If Ryan/Pohlad aren't waiting to see who becomes available in the managerial/pitching coach MLB depth pools (Washington/Scoscia,etc) before making a further commitment to Gardenhire/Anderson, they are being derelict in their duties and exposing more of the penny-wise/pound foolish thinking that has gotten them in the current mess they find themselves mired in.

[drjim]

I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

 

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

 

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

 

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

 

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

 

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

 

I agree with this. This talk of the Twins only bringing in insiders is not exactly true. The team is going to have a philosophy, it makes sense to bring people in for a year or two in lower level positions to learn that philosophy before promoting them to higher positions. Many successful businesses outside of baseball follow this model.

 

I will also add that I really like Terry Ryan and I am glad that he is the general manager. Every statement that he makes is spot on and aside from the Marquis signing he has been very solid in his decision making. He is not flashy but conservative and patient and I appreciate that, it bodes well for long term success.

[jokin]

I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

 

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

 

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

 

Smells like club "paralysis" to me...