Kyler Murray

[Mr. Brooks]

It would be smart for the A's/MLB to acquiesce and allow him to play football, and hold onto his rights, while inviting him to spring training or as much competition his NFL team allows.

 

I mean Wilson went to Spring Training a couple times, right? And Seattle must have been okay with it; maybe there's a way to work it out where he plays both, but defers to the NFL where there are conflicts.

I couldn't disagree more.

If I were the A's, I'd demand my bonus money back, and wish him good luck with his future brain in the NFL.

He signed a deal, and now wants a ton more money, having never stepped on the field, and his heart clearly isn't in it? No thanks, milb is a grind, you better be all in, I don't care how much talent you have.

 

Where the A's screwed up, was not vetting this out before they threw away a draft pick. Then letting him play football at Oklahoma. How did they not see this coming?

"Go a play a year and get it out of your system..." Are you kidding me? Are they a baseball franchise, or an overly naive parent? What did they think was going to happen if he blew up and had a monster season?

These two couldn't deserve each other more.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I couldn't disagree more.
If I were the A's, I'd demand my bonus money back, and wish him good luck with his future brain in the NFL.
He signed a deal, and now wants a ton more money, having never stepped on the field, and his heart clearly isn't in it? No thanks, milb is a grind, you better be all in, I don't care how much talent you have.

Where the A's screwed up, was not vetting this out before they threw away a draft pick. Then letting him play football at Oklahoma. How did they not see this coming?
"Go a play a year and get it out of your system..." Are you kidding me? Are they a baseball franchise, or an overly naive parent? What did they think was going to happen if he blew up and had a monster season?
These two couldn't deserve each other more.

I get where you are coming from.  But the draft pick is sunk cost, and the A's need to ask themselves whether the money is worth making some kind of value out of that draft pick.  

 

If Murray succeeds in the NFL, it would be a media boon for the MLB to have him (esp. if he's allowed to play in even limited games).  If Murray fails at the NFL, the A's retain their asset.  (I understand there's plenty of scenario's where Murray tears both ACLs and can't play either.)  

[darin617]

Hopefully the A's don't cave in and meet the demands Boras has laid out.

 

The smart move would be to tell Murray to do what makes him happy and don't force him to choose. If he has a poor NFL Combine and he falls into the 2-4 rounds he will run back to the A's and not look back.

[Mr. Brooks]

I get where you are coming from. But the draft pick is sunk cost, and the A's need to ask themselves whether the money is worth making some kind of value out of that draft pick.

 

If Murray succeeds in the NFL, it would be a media boon for the MLB to have him (esp. if he's allowed to play in even limited games). If Murray fails at the NFL, the A's retain their asset. (I understand there's plenty of scenario's where Murray tears both ACLs and can't play either.)

Yeah, the bonus money is already spent, but now he wants another $15 million up front, or he's walking. That money isn't sunk... yet.

 

And no NFL team is letting their first round hopefully franchise QB play baseball for 5 months every year before training camp.

 

We're way past the time when Bo and Deion were two sporting it for a million or two each. These teams have too much invested now.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Yeah, the bonus money is already spent, but now he wants another $15 million up front, or he's walking. That money isn't sunk... yet.

And no NFL team is letting their first round hopefully franchise QB play baseball for 5 months every year before training camp.

We're way past the time when Bo and Deion were two sporting it for a million or two each. These teams have too much invested now.

I think the 15 million is premised on that he gives up football.  I'm under no illusions that he'd be like Bo or Deon, but I think he's an MLB asset nonetheless.  Retain him.  He could be a Tebow/Jordan novelty or he could be much more than that or he could be nothing at all.   

 

But don't pay him the 15 million; that's not at all what I'm advocating.

[biggentleben]

Funny part is that this has bumped him up so much in the eyes of many people. He was not a great draft prospect entering the 2018 draft, regardless of whether football was involved or not. I had him just ahead of #50 predraft, BA had him #68, and Keith Law had him ranked highest in the mid-30s. Murray's incredibly raw and needs multiple years in the minor leagues. For some reason, this whole situation has put multiple national baseball writers out of their mind, saying Murray would be in the majors as soon as the end of this year or even 2020. Neither is remotely feasible.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think if I'm the A's I let him play both, but I'd make it real difficult for him to leave baseball. They do have quite a bit of leverage here, and they could probably sit down with the NFL and work out how the parameters of that would be structured so that drafting teams know what they are getting into (this would include compensation if he gets hurt, and what do with the overlap in seasons). I'm not sure I'd offer him 15M and a ML contract to stay. That strikes me as a very dangerous move. Granted he's a college draftee, but he's going to start at what, High A? They will have to rush him, and he doesn't have much margin for error at the ML level should he make it.

 

I know that's not the popular answer since two sport pros are pretty much gone these days, but that might be the right answer. He's good enough to play in both. Let him, but make sure you have some control over how it plays out.

[Vanimal46]

I think if I'm the A's I let him play both, but I'd make it real difficult for him to leave baseball. They do have quite a bit of leverage here, and they could probably sit down with the NFL and work out how the parameters of that would be structured so that drafting teams know what they are getting into (this would include compensation if he gets hurt, and what do with the overlap in seasons). I'm not sure I'd offer him 15M and a ML contract to stay. That strikes me as a very dangerous move. Granted he's a college draftee, but he's going to start at what, High A? They will have to rush him, and he doesn't have much margin for error at the ML level should he make it.

 

I know that's not the popular answer since two sport pros are pretty much gone these days, but that might be the right answer. He's good enough to play in both. Let him, but make sure you have some control over how it plays out.

If anything I would think it's the NFL calling the shots on when he could be available to play baseball...

 

I think Murray should commit to football and put baseball on the back burner. Better money, better chance at fame, better chance at a lucrative second contract. If he is an NFL bust, he can try baseball again.

[beckmt]

With the weak QB draft this year, my guess is that Murray goes in the top 20.  That is a lot of money, and if he makes his 5th year contract and second contract, he will make more than he ever could at baseball. If he busts he will know by 23 - 24 and  maybe goes back to baseball.  Let most baseball prospects he is raw and a lot of them never make it.  Better trying football, what Boris tried was just extorsion, just from the wrong club.

[Mr. Brooks]

With the weak QB draft this year, my guess is that Murray goes in the top 20. That is a lot of money, and if he makes his 5th year contract and second contract, he will make more than he ever could at baseball. If he busts he will know by 23 - 24 and maybe goes back to baseball. Let most baseball prospects he is raw and a lot of them never make it. Better trying football, what Boris tried was just extorsion, just from the wrong club.

A second contract alone is hardly more money than he could ever make in baseball. Harper and Machado are both looking at 250 million dollar contracts.

[MN_ExPat]

 

Funny part is that this has bumped him up so much in the eyes of many people. He was not a great draft prospect entering the 2018 draft, regardless of whether football was involved or not. I had him just ahead of #50 predraft, BA had him #68, and Keith Law had him ranked highest in the mid-30s. Murray's incredibly raw and needs multiple years in the minor leagues. For some reason, this whole situation has put multiple national baseball writers out of their mind, saying Murray would be in the majors as soon as the end of this year or even 2020. Neither is remotely feasible.

Great perspective Ben.   I think you hit the nail on the head.   Murray is a very gifted and athletic player, but baseball is cruel and unforgiving.   There is no guarantee that he will succeed at all.

 

While I don't agree with it (because after all baseball is the greatest game on the face of the planet... football phssssh!) when viewed in this light I can fully understand his decision.   I imagine it's hard for the young man to turn away from the allure and promise of the instant football fame that is being presented to him.

 

I cringe when I think of the potential injuries he will face, but in the end the decision is his, and his alone.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

A second contract alone is hardly more money than he could ever make in baseball. Harper and Machado are both looking at 250 million dollar contracts.

 

Problem is that these guys are the exception not the rule... not to mention the some of the CBA related issues we're discussing in other threads... I think the top end earnings is certainly higher for him in baseball, but the floor is also a lot lower. His jersey sales in the NFL alone will likely net him a 7 figure amount on top of his rookie deal, and that will happen right out of the gate. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If anything I would think it's the NFL calling the shots on when he could be available to play baseball...

I think Murray should commit to football and put baseball on the back burner. Better money, better chance at fame, better chance at a lucrative second contract. If he is an NFL bust, he can try baseball again.

 

It's a mixed bag. As was noted somewhere else, baseball already has a contract with him and the A's could sue (and win) the NFL franchise that entices him away. The NFL certainly has leverage, especially if that's what Murray wants to do, but MLB has some too in that he's already got an existing contract.

 

They would be smart to work together and figure out how to share him so that everyone is on the same page in advance of the draft. 

[darin617]

If he doesn't get drafted in the 1st round it may get real bad for him in a hurry.  An NFL team will not waste a 2-3 round pick for a guy that most likely will be running all the way to Oakland.

 

If he is not a 1st round pick I would be shocked if he just didn't completely pull out of the draft completely. The guaranteed money is pretty gone after the 1st round.

[Mr. Brooks]

Problem is that these guys are the exception not the rule... not to mention the some of the CBA related issues we're discussing in other threads... I think the top end earnings is certainly higher for him in baseball, but the floor is also a lot lower. His jersey sales in the NFL alone will likely net him a 7 figure amount on top of his rookie deal, and that will happen right out of the gate.

That type of money is also the exception in the NFL.

The average salary in MLB is nearly double the average salary in the NFL. NFL contracts are rarely guaranteed. And, the average career is shorter in the NFL. It's also much easier to get pension and lifetime health coverage in MLB. Combining all of that, I disagree about the floor.

In fact, I don't think it's close.

He could get a mostly non guaranteed first contract, suffer a career threatening injury like Teddy or Alex Smith, and never recover enough to play EITHER sport, and have to walk away with no pension and no health coverage.

 

MLB has the higher floor, median, and ceiling, IMO, and it's not close.

[Vanimal46]

If he doesn't get drafted in the 1st round it may get real bad for him in a hurry. An NFL team will not waste a 2-3 round pick for a guy that most likely will be running all the way to Oakland.

 

If he is not a 1st round pick I would be shocked if he just didn't completely pull out of the draft completely. The guaranteed money is pretty gone after the 1st round.

He's only got 1 more day to pull out of the NFL draft. After he declared he has 72 hours to change his mind or live with the decision.

[Mr. Brooks]

He's only got 1 more day to pull out of the NFL draft. After he declared he has 72 hours to change his mind or live with the decision.

I thought he actually officially declared on Friday, it just wasn't announced until Monday?

Either way, it doesn't matter.

All he has to do is tweet that he won't sign an NFL deal and teams will take him off their draft board, which is effectively the same thing as withdrawing.

[darin617]

 

He's only got 1 more day to pull out of the NFL draft. After he declared he has 72 hours to change his mind or live with the decision.

 

There's nothing stopping him from coming out after he is not selected in the 1st round to say "don't waste your pick on me."

[Danchat]

 

There's nothing stopping him from coming out after he is not selected in the 1st round to say "don't waste your pick on me."

Hmmm... then perhaps some team might trade up and pick him with the final pick in the first round, a la Bridgewater or Lamar Jackson. Then they get the 5th year option on him (which is what prompted the aforementioned trades).

[Mike Sixel]

Football it is.

 

Did the state of free agency have an influence? I think so.

[Vanimal46]

I was hoping he would lean towards football, especially with the direction baseball is going paying their players.

 

Here's to hoping he can have a healthy career at QB.

[Danchat]

Football it is.

 

Did the state of free agency have an influence? I think so.

I highly doubt it. It seems now that he had a Heisman-caliber year at Oklahoma, that sealed his fate as a 1st round pick in the NFL. Murray would be at least 7 years away from hitting free agency in baseball, things will likely be different then.

[Vanimal46]

Murray would be at least 7 years away from hitting free agency in baseball, things will likely be different then.

After a lengthy labor strike in 2021 maybe. Until then, we're going to keep seeing the same garbage over the last 2 off-seasons.

[darin617]

Am I a bad person to want to see him drop into 2-3 round of the NFL draft? Heisman trophy winning QB's have not faired that well in the NFL. I went back to 1980 and would have to say Carson Palmer or Cam Newton are the best QB's to win one in that time frame. With 7 complete flops in the NFL.

 

I also was not a fan of Boras trying to extort that money from Oakland to stay out of the NFL draft.

[biggentleben]

This comes less than 24 hours after a contact of mine put together a piece for his LinkedIn contacts exploring the feelings of multiple NFL scouts regarding Murray not being highly regarded as a QB by those scouts, who see him as a future RB.

[Vanimal46]

This comes less than 24 hours after a contact of mine put together a piece for his LinkedIn contacts exploring the feelings of multiple NFL scouts regarding Murray not being highly regarded as a QB by those scouts, who see him as a future RB.

Sigh... And the cycle of never believing in black QBs continues. Lamar Jackson was supposed to be a WR too according to scouts.

[Danchat]

 

Sigh... And the cycle of never believing in black QBs continues. Lamar Jackson was supposed to be a WR too according to scouts.

Those scouts were in the minority, as most teams considered him a QB. Plus the guy has a dynamic running ability like a returner taking a kick back, and the Ravens did line him up a few times as a WR when Flacco was starting...

 

If Murray falls in the draft, it's going to be about his height, not his skin color. Russell Wilson, who similarly was ignored due to his height, has opened up scouts' eyes on the matter. I do think he'll be a first round pick, but teams will be wary about designing their offense around a short QB.

[Mike Sixel]

Am I a bad person to want to see him drop into 2-3 round of the NFL draft? Heisman trophy winning QB's have not faired that well in the NFL. I went back to 1980 and would have to say Carson Palmer or Cam Newton are the best QB's to win one in that time frame. With 7 complete flops in the NFL.

 

I also was not a fan of Boras trying to extort that money from Oakland to stay out of the NFL draft.

Why would you ever wish bad things for anyone?

[Vanimal46]

Those scouts were in the minority, as most teams considered him a QB. Plus the guy has a dynamic running ability like a returner taking a kick back, and the Ravens did line him up a few times as a WR when Flacco was starting...

 

If Murray falls in the draft, it's going to be about his height, not his skin color. Russell Wilson, who similarly was ignored due to his height, has opened up scouts' eyes on the matter. I do think he'll be a first round pick, but teams will be wary about designing their offense around a short QB.

I want him to get the opportunity to be an NFL QB... I think he has the arm to be a good one. He can get the ball out quickly with good velocity on it. Not to mention his athleticism is a major plus to extend plays.

[darin617]

 

Sigh... And the cycle of never believing in black QBs continues. Lamar Jackson was supposed to be a WR too according to scouts.

Jackson sure showed us how good of a QB he is when they played the Chargers in the playoffs.