Contention 2019?

[ewen21]

 

Not sure how wise it is to plan on Mauer as the lead off hitter for 2019, even if he does come back. He is not an everyday player and that is a reality likely to worsen next year. He’s going to start fewer than 120 games this year. That’s more than 1/4 of the season. If you put Mauer there, you need a capable replacement the rest of the year.

Making Mauer a priority actually makes no sense.  

[SF Twins Fan]

What do people think about the Twins trying to trade for Madison Bumgarner this offseason? He just turned 29 on August 1st and has one year left on his contract for $12M and then he will be an unrestricted free agent. He was injured in 2017 after falling off a dirt bike and then fractured his wrist in spring training this year but appears to be healthy now. The SF Giants are getting old really fast as the bulk of their players are 30 or older. The Giants didn't make the playoffs in 2015, won the Wild card game in 2016 but then lost 3-1 to the Cubs, didn't make the playoffs in 2017 and won't make the playoffs again this year. You'd have to think they will start to try and sell players off soon.

[Mike Sixel]

 

What do people think about the Twins trying to trade for Madison Bumgarner this offseason? He just turned 29 on August 1st and has one year left on his contract for $12M and then he will be an unrestricted free agent. He was injured in 2017 after falling off a dirt bike and then fractured his wrist in spring training this year but appears to be healthy now. The SF Giants are getting old really fast as the bulk of their players are at 30. The Giants didn't make the playoffs in 2015, won the Wild card game in 2016 but then lost 3-1 to the Cubs, didn't make the playoffs in 2017 and won't make the playoffs again this year. You'd have to think they will start to try and sell players off soon.

 

I'm not ready to trade (a lot) for players that have 1 year left on their deal. The Twins have too many question marks for that.

 

And, I don't think the Giants give up on next year, but I'm not sure about that.

[SF Twins Fan]

 

I'm not ready to trade (a lot) for players that have 1 year left on their deal. The Twins have too many question marks for that.

 

And, I don't think the Giants give up on next year, but I'm not sure about that.

 

If he were available what do you think it would take for the Giants to trade him? The Twins could always try to resign him. Would a package of Gordon, Gonsalves or Thorpe and another piece in the 15 to 20 range work?

[Mike Sixel]

 

If he were available what do you think it would take for the Giants to trade him? The Twins could always try to resign him. Would a package of Gordon, Gonsalves or Thorpe and another piece in the 15 to 20 range work?

 

I'm not trading Gordon and Thorpe for 1 year of a pitcher. Others here might. 

[alarp33]

 

If he were available what do you think it would take for the Giants to trade him? The Twins could always try to resign him. Would a package of Gordon, Gonsalves or Thorpe and another piece in the 15 to 20 range work?

 

The Twins could sign him next offseason and not give up those pieces.  

 

And no, I don't think that offer is anywhere close. It would take Lewis or Kiriloff +

[alarp33]

 

I'm not trading Gordon and Thorpe for 1 year of a pitcher. Others here might. 

 

I would, but no chance that is the Giants best offer if they make him available

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would, but no chance that is the Giants best offer if they make him available

 

Why? This team could win 75 or 85 next year, it's just too variable with this offense. Thorpe looks like a legit SP candidate for next year, like a number 3/4.....and Gordon will likely be a starting 2B for at least several years. For 1 year of a SP? Not me. But like I said, I figured some would.

[alarp33]

 

Why? This team could win 75 or 85 next year, it's just too variable with this offense. Thorpe looks like a legit SP candidate for next year, like a number 3/4.....and Gordon will likely be a starting 2B for at least several years. For 1 year of a SP? Not me. But like I said, I figured some would.

 

Because I think Thorpe and Gordon are the types of players you CAN make available in a deal, and Bumgarner is a legit ace. If things go poorly, you could trade Bumgarner at the deadline, also could get compensation once he turns down a QO.

 

But would I offer Lewis or Kirloff for 1 year of Bumgarner? No chance. 

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Because I think Thorpe and Gordon are the types of players you CAN make available in a deal, and Bumgarner is a legit ace. If things go poorly, you could trade Bumgarner at the deadline, also could get compensation once he turns down a QO.

 

But would I offer Lewis or Kirloff for 1 year of Bumgarner? No chance. 

 

Coming off two years of being injured I don't think it would cost more than Gordon and Thorpe and maybe a throw in. Plus it would give the Twins a chance to sign him to a contract extension. I feel very nervous going into next season with the Twins top two pitchers of Berrios and Gibson. I'd feel better if Gibson was more of a #3.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because I think Thorpe and Gordon are the types of players you CAN make available in a deal, and Bumgarner is a legit ace. If things go poorly, you could trade Bumgarner at the deadline, also could get compensation once he turns down a QO.

 

But would I offer Lewis or Kirloff for 1 year of Bumgarner? No chance. 

 

Fair.....I'm just not there yet. Sign a legit OF or C or INF, then maybe, maybe, I am.....but even then I'm a Thorpe believer.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Coming off two years of being injured I don't think it would cost more than Gordon and Thorpe and maybe a throw in. Plus it would give the Twins a chance to sign him to a contract extension. I feel very nervous going into next season with the Twins top two pitchers of Berrios and Gibson. I'd feel better if Gibson was more of a #3.

 

They can try to sign him next off season whether they trade for him or not......

 

for me, this is the kind of deal I make at the deadline, if the team is going for it. But again, I get why others would do it.

[Mike Sixel]

Here is why I don't do it:

 

CF, 3B, 2B, 1B, C are all question marks next year....oh, and DH. That's a lot of holes to bet on closing/going right to give up two top 75-100 prospects for 1 year of a player, at least for me.

 

to be clear......they are just a super high variance team for next year, and that's not the team I'm betting multiple players for a 1 year rental on. A guy with 3 years left, that is super expensive is more palatable to me, actually. 

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Here is why I don't do it:

 

CF, 3B, 2B, 1B, C are all question marks next year....oh, and DH. That's a lot of holes to bet on closing/going right to give up two top 75-100 prospects for 1 year of a player, at least for me.

 

to be clear......they are just a super high variance team for next year, and that's not the team I'm betting multiple players for a 1 year rental on. A guy with 3 years left, that is super expensive is more palatable to me, actually. 

 

I definitely agree they're a high variance team next year but I don't know if I agree with your assessment that they need to fill all of those roles. The Twins should be able to fill 3 OF roles between Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Cave and Wade. They could also try and sign another bench OF for cheap. Sano should be able to fill one of the 3B, 1B and or DH roles. I feel like they will bring Mauer back and have him platoon with Austin for 1st / DH. 

 

I do agree they need to fill 2nd and C can be upgraded. However, they should be getting Castro back and he should be able to platoon with Garver. It would be nice to get an update on how Castro is doing in his recovery as I don't think anything has been reported since the surgery. The bullpen could also use an outside piece or two.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I definitely agree they're a high variance team next year but I don't know if I agree with your assessment that they need to fill all of those roles. The Twins should be able to fill 3 OF roles between Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Cave and Wade. They could also try and sign another bench OF for cheap. Sano should be able to fill one of the 3B, 1B and or DH roles. I feel like they will bring Mauer back and have him platoon with Austin for 1st / DH. 

 

I do agree they need to fill 2nd and C can be upgraded. However, they should be getting Castro back and he should be able to platoon with Garver. It would be nice to get an update on how Castro is doing in his recovery as I don't think anything has been reported since the surgery. The bullpen could also use an outside piece or two.

 

Of course Sano could be the answer, but based on this year, we just don't have the same confidence that we once did.......As for the OF, if Buxton is very good next year, it is probably all ok. But if he is hurt or can't hit at all? That OF isn't as good, very fast. There are plenty of players to play OF, but are there enough really good ones? That's what I don't know.

 

And, yes, Mauer can come back, but I'm no fan of that. He's not all that good anymore.....and Austin could be the RH answer at 1b/DH, but he also could not be.

 

That's all kind of my point, actually.....they have a lot of guys that might be answers, so I think they won't sign/trade for many new players....meaning they are pretty much this team again......

 

But, again, I see why people disagree with me.

[howieramone2]

 

I've posted the link before, the twins were not even league median in WAR lost to injury. That was some time ago, so it may be worse now, but half way thru the year, more than half the teams had lost more projected WAR.

That's obviously a flawed statistic. No one on the board could possible think we could contend when Sano and Buxton crapped the bed at the same time.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thats obviously a flawed statistic. No one on the board could possible think we could contend when Sano and Buxton crapped the bed at the same time.

 

The Dodgers lost Kershaw for most of the year, and their starting 3B (who is better than Sano) for nearly the entire year......and yet.....not to mention their other losses.

 

It's not fake news just because you don't want to believe it. The Twins didn't lose as much to injury as some other teams....I'm guessing most here don't look that closely at other teams to see what they have lost. The point is....the rest of the team wasn't good enough to make up for the injuries they had, but that doesn't mean they had MORE injuries than other teams.

 

The Twins have been almost entirely healthy starting pitching wise, for example. Berrios, Gibson, Odo, Lynn made nearly every start they could. 

[howieramone2]

 

This. they have money, they have prospects, and they have some good players. This team can contend next year, and should be trying to contend next year. IMO, they won't by standing still or only using their current internal options, though.

When is the last time you saw our FO stand still? TR didn't make enough moves and that made folks unhappy. The new regime has made as many moves as anyone in baseball, and the same folks are unhappy. Do you see a trend here?

[Mike Sixel]

 

When is the last time you saw our FO stand still? TR didn't make enough moves and that made folks unhappy. The new regime had made as many moves as anyone in baseball, and the same folks are unhappy. Do you see a trend here?

 

I'm not sure what you are arguing, I said the same thing.....over and over on this thread and others.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Speaking of bad contracts, rumor has it King Theo will trade Whatsamatta Yu for a dirty diaper and throw in 50M.

 

Twins were the second highest bidder....so it's not like they knew more. The guy is hurt, I guess you could say all pitchers get hurt, but then you'd be arguing never to sign a FA pitcher......

[howieramone2]

 

Your first sentence is what makes us losers next year. If we go into the season with Forsythe and Castro we won’t come close to the playoffs. If the FO is okay with those pieces and do nothing better than that, the FO does not want to contend. And yes, our core needs to improve. I’m less worried about starting pitching than I am about the team behind it and the BP.

I've said this before, let me say it again. Going into the season Castro caught the 2nd most innings in all of baseball since 2013. Also, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well Garver performed. I have no concerns at catcher, and that goes all the way down to our minor league depth.

 

When was the last time, whether a team was going to the playoffs or not was decided by a 2B? Aren't you getting tired of every player our FO picks up, automatically becoming a scapegoat?

[howieramone2]

 

Sign Machado and move Polanco to 2nd.

Does anyone want to bet, we will have a meltdown thread if we don't sign Machado?

[howieramone2]

 

So that leaves Rosario and ????

You really counting on Buxton to be a star? I don’t think anyone else is. I think the BEST case scenario at this point is that he hits well enough to actually hold onto a regular job.

If Buxton can hit .240 he'll be an All-Star every year.

[howieramone2]

 

The Dodgers lost Kershaw for most of the year, and their starting 3B (who is better than Sano) for nearly the entire year......and yet.....not to mention their other losses.

 

It's not fake news just because you don't want to believe it. The Twins didn't lose as much to injury as some other teams....I'm guessing most here don't look that closely at other teams to see what they have lost. The point is....the rest of the team wasn't good enough to make up for the injuries they had, but that doesn't mean they had MORE injuries than other teams.

 

The Twins have been almost entirely healthy starting pitching wise, for example. Berrios, Gibson, Odo, Lynn made nearly every start they could. 

Every year in every sport, teams go down the tubes due to the wrong players missing too many games. It's been that way since Adam and Eve.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Every year in every sport, teams go down the tubes due to the wrong players missing too many games. It's been that way since Adam and Eve.

 

We agree.....I'm still not sure what you are arguing. The Twins went down the tubes because they didn't have enough great players to make up for their losses...that doesn't mean they had more losses than other teams.

[ewen21]

 

When is the last time you saw our FO stand still? TR didn't make enough moves and that made folks unhappy. The new regime has made as many moves as anyone in baseball, and the same folks are unhappy. Do you see a trend here?

Any scientific study you have done that can support the claim underlined?

 

I hate when people assume who is doing the "complaining"

There is no reason to marginalize criticism the organization gets by generalizing complaints into a single category made by people who just live to whine and complain.  Those are useless claims made by the "we need to be positive crowd"

 

I think being critical IS positive.  It beats putting your head in the sand and ignoring the unpleasant truth.  At least when criticism is involved some analysis gets done.  Always accentuating the positive and brushing aside the negatives is fools errand if you have any hopes of understanding any issue and turning it around

[Riverbrian]

 

What do people think about the Twins trying to trade for Madison Bumgarner this offseason? He just turned 29 on August 1st and has one year left on his contract for $12M and then he will be an unrestricted free agent. He was injured in 2017 after falling off a dirt bike and then fractured his wrist in spring training this year but appears to be healthy now. The SF Giants are getting old really fast as the bulk of their players are 30 or older. The Giants didn't make the playoffs in 2015, won the Wild card game in 2016 but then lost 3-1 to the Cubs, didn't make the playoffs in 2017 and won't make the playoffs again this year. You'd have to think they will start to try and sell players off soon.

 

I can't imagine the Giants trading him. They are always in go for it mode and are typically not looking for prospects. They will probably be one of the teams throwing big bucks around at Harper and Machado or Kershaw. In the off-season. 

 

However... If the Giants end up out of contention... Bumgarner would be a guy to target as a rental if we keep ourselves in the playoff race. 

 

He'd probably be an expensive rental in comparison to other rental prices but nowhere near the Royce Lewis price tag during the off-season. 

 

This would give us a chance to evaluate the core next year before we send a cannonball through the farm system. 

 

I'd like the Twins to focus on the offense/defense and bullpen. We got decent depth in the starting rotation to find five who can get people out. 

[Squirrel]

 

I've said this before, let me say it again. Going into the season Castro caught the 2nd most innings in all of baseball since 2013. Also, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well Garver performed. I have no concerns at catcher, and that goes all the way down to our minor league depth.

 

When was the last time, whether a team was going to the playoffs or not was decided by a 2B? Aren't you getting tired of every player our FO picks up, automatically becoming a scapegoat?

I'm not scapegoating anyone, and neither is anyone else, so stop it. I've said it for months now how I want the Twins to sign Machado. If Sano wasn't back to field form, but he seems to be doing well there, I had thought moving Sano to 1st and seeing if Machado would play 3rd. But the other scenario I've said, a few times now in various threads, sign Machado to play SS and move Polanco to 2B. While you can't build a team made up entirely of the best at all positions, why not go for upgrades when and where you can get them. Polanco at 2nd and Machado at SS is an upgrade, so do it. that's my philosophy. As for Castro, I'll give a little on that, but we have NO IDEA how serviceable he'll be next year. He could be fine and I'd be okay to roll with Castro and Garver. But if he's not, the FO should be prepared to make a move to UPGRADE the position and not fill it a less-than-average body. I'll admit that I think Wilson has done an adequate job in a losing season, but if we want to win, we can't always rely on what we have and should be looking for upgrades, not merely adequate fill-ins. I wasn't for re-signing (yes, it's re-signing, not resigning) Dozier next year ... this has been my plans for months, so quit telling the masses that we're 'scapegoating' players because we want something BETTER.

 

I also think our starting pitching will be fine ... but ... we could look for an upgrade, but I think we need to upgrade the bp.

 

And I'm all for trying to re-sign (yes, it's re-sign, people, with a hyphen, not resign, that's a different word with a different meaning) Escobar.

 

Not sure what we'll do at first. But, again ... we need to UPGRADE when we can, and I think we can here, not fill it in with merely adequate, questionably average players.

[Squirrel]

 

Does anyone want to bet, we will have a meltdown thread if we don't sign Machado?

This is getting off topic, but I'll respond. I have also said, many times, that signing Machado is my impossible dream. I don't expect it to happen, but I still want it to. And I think most people know this as well. He would fill a need more than perfectly, as he'd be ideal for what we need, and we have the means to do it. It's not likely Machado would want to come here, but ... I think they should still go all out and try. Still ... if not him, I think we can find better than Forsythe. If we 'settle' for Forsythe, to me that's a sign we aren't really trying to contend. I'd rather have Escobar playing 2nd, to be honest. And no ... Gordon isn't ready. I was hoping at the beginning of the season, and pushing for it to happen, but he's not ready yet and needs another year at AAA.

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Any scientific study you have done that can support the claim underlined?

 

I hate when people assume who is doing the "complaining"

There is no reason to marginalize criticism the organization gets by generalizing complaints into a single category made by people who just live to whine and complain.  Those are useless claims made by the "we need to be positive crowd"

 

I think being critical IS positive.  It beats putting your head in the sand and ignoring the unpleasant truth.  At least when criticism is involved some analysis gets done.  Always accentuating the positive and brushing aside the negatives is fools errand if you have any hopes of understanding any issue and turning it around

 

I would note that as a moderator, that bolded part is what causes a lot of the bickering that generates infractions and warning points, and I agree with you ewen that we have some of that going on here. 

 

Please, just a friendly note, but let's try and respond respectfully to each other and not to some sort of generalized view.