General politics

[Mike Sixel]

I'm pretty sure the much of the GOP is voting exactly as they said they would. Cut taxes, gut regulations, keep the "bad people" out of the country, etc. Put judges in place that will reverse things like equal rights for gays and transgender people.....

 

Literally stuff the GOP runs on.

[biggentleben]

 

I'm pretty sure the much of the GOP is voting exactly as they said they would. Cut taxes, gut regulations, keep the "bad people" out of the country, etc. Put judges in place that will reverse things like equal rights for gays and transgender people.....

 

Literally stuff the GOP runs on.

 

Screwing over farmers doesn't play well in SoDak....

[Mike Sixel]

 

Screwing over farmers doesn't play well in SoDak....

 

We'll see how they vote....but Trump did say he'd hit China hard.....this is what they said they'd do. The fact that voters don't understand what that means is different.

[Craig Arko]

[biggentleben]

 

We'll see how they vote....but Trump did say he'd hit China hard.....this is what they said they'd do. The fact that voters don't understand what that means is different.

 

The fact that a Republican is trying to run on her alignment with Trump and is losing in the polls says plenty.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The fact that a Republican is trying to run on her alignment with Trump and is losing in the polls says plenty.

 

I agree.....but that wasn't what was said in the post.....the GOP is doing exactly what it said it would. They are voting just as they said that they would. If that's not how their constituents wanted them to vote, maybe they should have voted differently....and maybe they will this time. 

[Doomtints]

 

That's the issue. If you had DC voting the way their constituents elected them to, this would not be an issue.

 

Right. They are voting like the southern tea party evangelicals want them to vote ... never compromise, always cut taxes, the Democrats and liberals are Satanic so no matter what the GOP does it's better, etc. etc.

 

The Democrats ignored the hatred for a long time, and they did this at their own peril ... a lot of people were listening to this fringe group and they grew in power every year.

[TheLeviathan]

I guess I'm with Mike....how far is your head in the sand if you voted Republican and you're surprised by the outcome?

 

The problem I see, is that politicians in general (Dems too) tend to vote along party lines.  Which means most regional concerns are left for pork spending rather than meaningful legislation.

[Mr. Brooks]

This is why we need a strong third party.

 

I think a lot of people don't like how they are represented, but can't fathom voting for the other party. They don't even consider that an option.

 

Anecdotally, to that point, as farmers were referenced by Ben:

I read a few weeks ago, Huffington Post I think, an article in which many farmers were interviewed. The overwhelming consensus was that most voted Trump, most acknowledged Trump's tariffs were responsible for their struggles, but yet not one said they'd consider changing their vote.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This is why we need a strong third party.

I think a lot of people don't like how they are represented, but can't fathom voting for the other party. They don't even consider that an option.

Anecdotally, to that point, as farmers were referenced by Ben:
I read a few weeks ago, Huffington Post I think, an article in which many farmers were interviewed. The overwhelming consensus was that most voted Trump, most acknowledged Trump's tariffs were responsible for their struggles, but yet not one said they'd consider changing their vote.

 

It might also say something about how profoundly awful Democrat messaging has turned in these areas.  Not entirely their fault, but some fault for sure.

 

A third party is a dream I hope comes true some day.

[TheLeviathan]

I like this!

[Squirrel]

I voted today. Yes, on a Sunday. At the super polling place. Although my ward early voting polling place is also open, this one is more convenient. No lines, no waiting. In the loop. So convenient. Anyone can vote there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Listening to MPR this morning is pretty rough after such a violent week/weekend.

 

I'd like to think that these monstrous acts will resolve voters to demand better but I'm far too skeptical to expect that to happen at this point.

 

What an awful time we live in.

[stringer bell]

I hope you’re wrong Brock. The independents and a portion of what is the Republican Party should vote to harness Trump. Anyone paying attention should know what the president is and why we can’t risk having Republicans remain in charge, with Trump in the White House.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I hope you’re wrong Brock. The independents and a portion of what is the Republican Party should vote to harness Trump. Anyone paying attention should know what the president is and why we can’t risk having Republicans remain in charge, with Trump in the White House.

I hope I'm wrong, too.

 

But given how so many people are still lining up behind Trump or at least turning a blind eye to his behavior, my faith in humanity is pretty much at an all-time low.

 

We literally have a situation where a person was fueled by the president's language to mail bombs to over a dozen of the president's opponents. Did the president change his dialogue in response?

 

Of course not. And people still support him, either directly or indirectly. It's sickening.

 

But I suppose there's some upside here. No one in their right mind can deny that racism, sexism, and general intolerance of the far right is still a power player in American politics.

 

On the downside of that statement, I preferred it when we forced those people back under their rocks. Maybe ignorance is bliss but my daily life was a lot less troubling when blatant racists were afraid to show their racism in public.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In general, right now it's pretty tough for me to deal with the fact I'm raising two black girls in this country.

 

I don't know how it feels to face racism every day but I feel like I'm getting a glimpse into the hopelessness that community feels and has felt for hundreds of years.

 

And I'm a bit ashamed that it has taken me so long to get here, really. It's just so depressing.

[PseudoSABR]

 

In general, right now it's pretty tough for me to deal with the fact I'm raising two black girls in this country.

 

I don't know how it feels to face racism every day but I feel like I'm getting a glimpse into the hopelessness that community feels and has felt for hundreds of years.

 

And I'm a bit ashamed that it has taken me so long to get here, really. It's just so depressing.

Proud of you, buddy. Hang in there!

[Mr. Brooks]

I fear that rather than a crescendo, we're seeing just a tip of the iceberg.

 

I not only think Trump will win a second term, but think it's quite possible he leverages a situation where he takes a lifetime dictatorship, a la Putin.

 

Think about the people he's been able to gain unquestioned support from.

His tariffs are literally driving farmers to kill themselves (recent articles have put farmers at something like 20x the national average suicide rate), yet they won't sway in their support.

 

He's a billionaire from New York, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, yet has positioned himself as the hero to those who hate the coastal elites.

 

He's a frequent divorcee, who cheats on his wives with strippers and porn stars, wants to have sex with his own daughter, and responded to a question asking him his favorite bible verse with, "all of them" (meaning he doesn't actually know any), yet has unwavering support of evangelicals.

 

He frequently insults veterans, and their families, including our most famous war hero, yet gets the vast majority of the military vote.

 

He's cozied up to Putin and Russia. At worst, conspired with them to rig an election. At best, turned a blind eye after the fact. Imagine if Obama or Hillary did that?

 

It's really one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.

 

He, along with the rest of the GOP, have convinced a large segment of the population that liberals are the worst possible enemy. Worse than communism, worse than violence, worse than racism, worse than poverty, whose than terrorism, worse than anything.

Amazing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I fear that rather than a crescendo, we're seeing just a tip of the iceberg.

I not only think Trump will win a second term, but think it's quite possible he leverages a situation where he takes a lifetime dictatorship, a la Putin.

Think about the people he's been able to gain unquestioned support from.
His tariffs are literally driving farmers to kill themselves (recent articles have put farmers at something like 20x the national average suicide rate), yet they won't sway in their support.

He's a billionaire from New York, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, yet has positioned himself as the hero to those who hate the coastal elites.

He's a frequent divorcee, who cheats on his wives with strippers and porn stars, wants to have sex with his own daughter, and responded to a question asking him his favorite bible verse with, "all of them" (meaning he doesn't actually know any), yet has unwavering support of evangelicals.

He frequently insults veterans, and their families, including our most famous war hero, yet gets the vast majority of the military vote.

He's cozied up to Putin and Russia. At worst, conspired with them to rig an election. At best, turned a blind eye after the fact. Imagine if Obama or Hillary did that?

It's really one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.

He, along with the rest of the GOP, have convinced a large segment of the population that liberals are the worst possible enemy. Worse than communism, worse than violence, worse than racism, worse than poverty, whose than terrorism, worse than anything.
Amazing.

 

But hey, all we have to do is turn out the vote (because apparently we haven't been trying up until now), and somehow things will be fixed.....even though we are 150 years past the civil war, and the South still thinks we are at war.....

[TheLeviathan]

 

But hey, all we have to do is turn out the vote (because apparently we haven't been trying up until now), and somehow things will be fixed.....even though we are 150 years past the civil war, and the South still thinks we are at war.....

 

My god man.  Just stop.

 

The Dems are terrible at turning out the vote.  This is a demonstrable fact.  Changing it will change the course of the country.

[TheLeviathan]

 

In general, right now it's pretty tough for me to deal with the fact I'm raising two black girls in this country.

 

I don't know how it feels to face racism every day but I feel like I'm getting a glimpse into the hopelessness that community feels and has felt for hundreds of years.

 

And I'm a bit ashamed that it has taken me so long to get here, really. It's just so depressing.

 

My work in Chicago did this for me.  I don't think people, even those that vote to help blacks in this country, truly have any idea of the scope of the desperation.  To live it is eye-opening in ways I wasn't prepared for.

 

So I hear ya.  It's a hard thing to reconcile, to have such a different lived experience in approximately the same place.

[Mike Sixel]

 

My god man.  Just stop.

 

The Dems are terrible at turning out the vote.  This is a demonstrable fact.  Changing it will change the course of the country.

 

And yet, 30% of the nation doesn't agree....just ignoring them won't make them go away. Just electing different leaders won't either, as witnessed by what is happening 2 years after Obama left office. The hate and fear and other things aren't going away. 150 years after the civil war, and if anything it is worse now than it was 30 years ago, despite the "inevitable march of freedom/liberalism". The answer isn't as simple as "turn out the vote and elect different people to office". Even out here on the super liberal west coast we have RWNJ groups killing people and doing their best to elect right wingers in enough numbers to derail progress. 

 

You yourself posted the nation is getting more conservative, not less. So, what's the answer to actually fixing problems, because it isn't electing democrats alone.

[TheLeviathan]

Last I checked, 30% still leaves 70% to vote another way.  Help me if my math is wrong.  

 

You're asking two different questions it seems and causing a ton of confusion.  (And then unfairly taking cheap shots) Do you want to talk about what we do with 30% of the country being immoral/racist/*******s or do you want to talk about how to change the way America operates through policies and elections?

 

At various times you seem to want one or the other and then mistreat the responses you get by pulling the rug out from the conversation.  So terms like "fixing problems" is vague and not helpful to the discussion.

 

Perhaps you should ask clearer questions if you'd like better answers. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Last I checked, 30% still leaves 70% to vote another way.  Help me if my math is wrong.  

 

You're asking two different questions it seems and causing a ton of confusion.  (And then unfairly taking cheap shots) Do you want to talk about what we do with 30% of the country being immoral/racist/*******s or do you want to talk about how to change the way America operates through policies and elections?

 

At various times you seem to want one or the other and then mistreat the responses you get by pulling the rug out from the conversation.  So terms like "fixing problems" is vague and not helpful to the discussion.

 

Perhaps you should ask clearer questions if you'd like better answers. 

 

I want to make the world a better place. ONE way to do that is to elect better candidates, but it clearly isn't enough. I'll try to be more clear in the future which one of those two I'm talking about, but I guess that seemed obvious to me, I'm not into electing a party for election sake......

 

And, you should look in the mirror on your posts, mine are never about you, but your opinions. Your's are often about me, and not just my opinions in this thread. That post you replied to is not about you at all, until the end where I point out that what you said, not in a demeaning way, just that you did. I'd like to continue this, but you seem really angry about my posts, rather than about what is happening in the world......

[Mike Sixel]

And, Brazil joins the list of nations moving to elect people like Trump.....outside Canada and some of Europe, it's hard to see progress right now. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I want to make the world a better place. ONE way to do that is to elect better candidates, but it clearly isn't enough. I'll try to be more clear in the future which one of those two I'm talking about, but I guess that seemed obvious to me, I'm not into electing a party for election sake......

 

And, you should look in the mirror on your posts, mine are never about you,

 

Your post was clearly dismissive and mocking in tone.  I don't appreciate it, it's unnecessary.  So yes, I am not happy that you continue to use that kind of tone when the issue seems to stem from a lack of clarity from you.  There was absolutely no need to phrase your response the way you did but to take a shot at LaBombo, myself, or Psuedo.  I think many people have fairly tried to answer your questions, I don't think the tone of your responses is helpful to a discussion.

 

Now that you clarify what you want it actually makes me more upset you've been so derisive in response - do you think there is some kind of magic bullet out there for hatred and racism?  I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I don't have some grand, glorious strategy to remove hatred from the human heart.  If that's your goal and anything but an obvious, perfect solution is going to get sarcastic responses....well then I'm out.  I don't think there is an obvious, perfect solution.

 

I find the issue of hatred and racism, unfortunately, a part of humanity.  Has been forever.  I find it hard to envision eradicating it even though I share your goal.  So I can't possibly give you that clean, perfect answer you want.  If that's my failing, so be it, I'll accept it.  My answers to such a question will always be flawed and limited.  I wonder who could do any differently?

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I refuse to believe that most of Trump's supporters are awful.

A decent chunk of that, sure, but if the number is 30%, I'd say maybe something like 8% are awful,unreachable people.

The rest, I think, are along for the ride.

Now, I admit, turning a blind eye to Trump's awfulness in the hopes of gaining what you're looking for is quite reckless in it's own right. But, I do think that most of those people COULD be reached.

 

We need to figure out how to connect with them, to convince them that they can be represented without resorting to a person like Trump, out of a perceived desperation.

 

Not saying that will be easy, or even that the DFL is capable of that any time soon. But I do think that needs to be the plan.

 

I just don't believe that 30% of the population are the same vile human as Trump.

 

The Democrats need to leave their comfort zone, get out to these rural and suburban areas, and talk to these people, and listen to them.

They won't be able to give them everything they want, I'm not saying abandon liberal principles. But find some common ground, reconsider policies that can be compromised on, reshape messaging when needed, and shape and stick to a plan to bring some of them into the fold.

Won't be able to get all of them, some will have hard policy issues that can't be compromised, but they don't need to get all of them.

[TheLeviathan]

I also find it hard to believe we have more racists than 1960.  I would like to see some evidence for that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

150 years after the civil war, and if anything it is worse now than it was 30 years ago, despite the "inevitable march of freedom/liberalism".

Honestly, I'm not so sure this is true.

 

I was talking to a friend (who happens to be a person of color) last weekend and he summed it up nicely.

 

Until now, it has been easy to democratically legislate oppression. White people, particularly white men, are losing that power by the day. So now, they're turning to non-democratic measures to keep the status quo... in essence, very little has changed except their ability to work within the system to achieve their long-standing goals so now they're stepping outside our democratic system to do it.

 

Put in that context, it's hard to say things are really worse (and in some ways are actually better) but things are going to get ugly in the near future.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I also find it hard to believe we have more racists than 1960.  I would like to see some evidence for that.

Beat me to it.