2017 Twins - Looking back at 1984

[jorgenswest]

This team has many similarities to the 1984 Twins. The age of the key players on the roster was centered 23-25. They had an unexpected all star break record of 43-41.

 

Likely very frustrating to fans, they did not make any significant trades to improve the roster. They acquired aging SS Chris Speier for a 27 year old AAA pitcher Jay Pettibone to try to fix SS. They acquired struggling DH Pat Putnam for marginal A-Ball prospect Carson Carroll to try to get some pop at a DH. Neither fix helped. They team completed well into September but did not make playoffs.

 

It had to be tempting that year to trade off two young players in Puckett and Gaetti that flashed some offense but whose bats were generally empty. It had to be tempting to trade away some rising minor leaguers like Gagne, Havens, Lombardozzi, Portugal and Anderson. They certainly could have packaged 3 or 4 of those players to get real help.

 

They chose not to make moves with that young roster. They kept Puckett and Gaetti in spite of little pop in their bats that year. They kept their 22 shortstop prospect in Gagne. In hindsight, no moves seems to have been the best course of action.

 

Is it possible that the best course this year is to retain all of the young core of players?

[Doomtints]

84 is the year that Ron Davis blew 14 saves.  Only two people brought that team down -- Ron Davis and manager Billy Gardner.

 

The team was tied for 1st on 9/23 and lost the last 6 games.  The team ahead of them lost their last 3.  Davis blew 2 saves. credited as losses, during the last 2 games that mattered with 5 walks, 3 hits, and 2 home runs, putting them 3 games out with 2 games remaining.

[jorgenswest]

They remained competitive to the end without making a deal. Must have been tempting to trade off minor league prospects to bring in a closer. Had they traded Gagne for a reliever, they may have made it to the playoffs.

[Doomtints]

 

They remained competitive to the end without making a deal. Must have been tempting to trade off minor league prospects to bring in a closer. Had they traded Gagne for a reliever, they may have made it to the playoffs.

 

The 84 Twins had good pitching, mostly, but were not yet a good hitting team. It makes sense that they tried to pick up hitters only.  

 

One also has to look at this through a contemporary lens. The MLB at this time still had some teams just starting to adopt full-time closers, and the Twins were one of the teams that were late to the party. They really didn't know what they were doing with Davis (or, at least, Billy Gardner didn't). Plus, Griffith was working on selling the team at this time, with the sale being finalized in September, and would not have been focused on trades and may not have been paying attention to what was happening on the field at all.

 

Note that this year's team doesn't have the "We're trying to sell the team" excuse going for them....

[nicksaviking]

Wasn't 1984 also Bartolo Colon's first year in the league?

 

I like the parallels with the 1984 team, particularly with the poorly put together bullpen, though I don't think I'll be very happy if we have to wait another 3 years for the team to really be competitive.

[Otto von Ballpark]

They remained competitive to the end without making a deal. Must have been tempting to trade off minor league prospects to bring in a closer. Had they traded Gagne for a reliever, they may have made it to the playoffs.

Wouldn't necessarily have to have been Gagne. Mark Portugal, Mark Davidson, Allan Anderson, Rich Yett... not to mention lower level guys like Tyler Ladendorf circa 2009...

[USAFChief]

Dunno about comparisons, but 1984 delivered perhaps the greatest quote in sports history:

 

"It's hard to throw with both hands wrapped around your neck."

 

-G Gaetti

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE198409280.shtml

[jorgenswest]

Wouldn't necessarily have to have been Gagne. Mark Portugal, Mark Davidson, Allan Anderson, Rich Yett... not to mention lower level guys like Tyler Ladendorf circa 2009...

They made a few minor deals that didn't work out as well as Cabrera. They chose not to deal any significant young prospects, though in hindsight we would be able to pick which prospects they should have dealt. Havens might have been their best prospect at the time if not Gagne. They have a similar choice this year.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Also...1984...like, fascists and stuff.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Am I right?

[Pardon My Dinger]

Like the book???

[Pardon My Dinger]

...I didn't finish that book.

[ashbury]

...I didn't finish that book.

It didn't end well.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It didn't end well.

Watching Ron Davis "highlight reels" in Room 101, IIRC.

[Craig Arko]

It didn't end well.

Sure it did.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

As a comparison, I prefer the 1984 and 2015 teams.

 

Without getting caught up in W-L records, or specific ages or experience of players, I think the success of the 2015 team was much more unexpected. Obviously it's arguable whether a .500 record can be called "success."

 

There might have also been less pressure from fans to make trade deadline deals in those days. I don't recall any temptation to trade away Puckett or Gaetti, but I do recall the debate about whether the Twins should trade Viola, which they eventually did on July 31, 1989 for prospects that helped them win the World Series in 1991. On the other side of the coin, the Twins traded away shortstop prospect Jay Bell for pitching they needed, Bert Blyleven, at the deadline in 1985. 

[Thrylos]

 

As a comparison, I prefer the 1984 and 2015 teams.

 

That.   The second halves of Perkins (7.32 ERA, 4 S, 4 L) and Ron Davis' (4.22 ERA, 5 L, 13 Sv) were both horrible, with both killing the Twins' chances

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

That.   The second halves of Perkins (7.32 ERA, 4 S, 4 L) and Ron Davis' (4.22 ERA, 5 L, 13 Sv) were both horrible, with both killing the Twins' chances

That is certainly a factor I did not consider. Although, Perkins struggled the most right after the break, while RD saved his fireworks for the very end.