An Upside Down World

[Mr. Brooks]

I recieved universal pushback here when I suggested that the police officer who did nothing during the Parkland shooting should potentially be held liable.

 

Today, he's been charged with 11 counts, including child neglect, culpable negligence, and perjury.

He's facing a maximum of 100 years in prison.

 

[Florida deputy charged after staying outside during Parkland school shooting] http://va.topbuzz.com/s/QRrrxb

 

Some excerpts:

 

-The charges follow a 14-month investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which conducted interviews with 184 witnesses, reviewed hours of surveillance videos and compiled 212 investigative reports, the agency said.

 

-Peterson "did absolutely nothing to mitigate" the shooting, FDLE Commissioner Rick Swearingen said in a statement. "There can be no excuse for his complete inaction and no question that his inaction cost lives."

 

-Lori Alhadeff, whose 14-year-old daughter, Alyssa, was killed, said she was surprised to hear of Peterson's arrest. She recalled sending a text to her daughter when she heard there was shooting.

 

"I told her to hide, that help was on the way. Well, Peterson was that help, but he froze, and he failed us all that day," Alhadeff said. "He was supposedly the good guy with the gun who was supposed to go in and meet the threat, and he let us all down."

 

-David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor now in private practice, said key to the case will be the culpable negligence charge, which essentially means an "utter disregard for the safety of others."

 

"They are focusing on the care he was required to give to the students as a caregiver who was responsible for their welfare," Weinstein added.

 

-The perjury charge stems from a statement Peterson gave under oath to investigators contending that he did not hear any shots fired after taking up his position outside the school. Investigators determined through video, witnesses and other evidence that was not true.

[Vanimal46]

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

I can't find anything about that here in the news. There were three arrests, all involved people from the left and right fighting each other. But ya, that video looks bad. Of course, we have no idea what happened before that, but I don't condone any type of violence in situations like this.....

[Vanimal46]

I can't find anything about that here in the news. There were three arrests, all involved people from the left and right fighting each other. But ya, that video looks bad. Of course, we have no idea what happened before that, but I don't condone any type of violence in situations like this.....

This is an interesting Twitter thread...

 

https://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/1145493772631007232?s=19

[KirbyDome89]

Well, according to HuffPost it's the fault of the Right for being in a city that "doesn't want them," and baiting Antifa into these actions. Also there's apparently no real linkage of Antifa to violence.

 

Smh.....

 

They're a domestic terror group, and the cognitive dissonance practiced by actual media outlets that defend Antifa while simultaneously admonishing the extremist groups they clash with is equally hilarious and sad. 

[Vanimal46]

Well, according to HuffPost it's the fault of the Right for being in a city that "doesn't want them," and baiting Antifa into these actions. Also there's apparently no real linkage of Antifa to violence.

 

Smh.....

 

They're a domestic terror group, and the cognitive dissonance practiced by actual media outlets that defend Antifa while simultaneously admonishing the extremist groups they clash with is equally hilarious and sad.

The hypocrisy is real... People around the country despised Trump for downplaying the white supremacists in Charlottesville, and deservedly so.

 

Now media outlets and Democratic candidates are pretending Antifa doesn't exist. Or worse, they're doing good work because they're assaulting people on the other side of the political fence.

 

It's amazing that one Democratic candidate, Andrew ****ing Yang, has commented about this.

 

https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1145755562816266240?s=19

[Craig Arko]

The hypocrisy is real... People around the country despised Trump for downplaying the white supremacists in Charlottesville, and deservedly so.

Now media outlets and Democratic candidates are pretending Antifa doesn't exist. Or worse, they're doing good work because they're assaulting people on the other side of the political fence.

It's amazing that one Democratic candidate, Andrew ****ing Yang, has commented about this.https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1145755562816266240?s=19

I believe in order to avoid breaking symmetry, you’re supposed to say “there are very fine people on both sides.”

 

But seriously, it would be good if we found nonviolent means of expressing our disgust for one another.

[Squirrel]

 

I believe in order to avoid breaking symmetry, you’re supposed to say “there are very fine people on both sides.”

But seriously, it would be good if we found nonviolent means of expressing our disgust for one another.

I go to protests. And the second it appears to be getting a bit too raucous, or the organizers start getting a bit ... well ... messaging matters, and the police start arriving, I'm done. Other than that, I write lots of letters to my representatives. And donate to humanitarian causes.

[Squirrel]

 

I go to protests. And the second it appears to be getting a bit too raucous, or the organizers start getting a bit ... well ... messaging matters, and the police start arriving, I'm done. Other than that, I write lots of letters to my representatives. And donate to humanitarian causes.

Oh, and VOTE ... healthy climate and human decency and equality are my main focuses. Wish more would actually VOTE.

[Craig Arko]

I go to protests. And the second it appears to be getting a bit too raucous, or the organizers start getting a bit ... well ... messaging matters, and the police start arriving, I'm done. Other than that, I write lots of letters to my representatives. And donate to humanitarian causes.

I’ve gone to things like March for Science, and left that after it felt more like a lobbyist group than something that actually promoted science.

 

I do find in the end I care more about the planet and the many disappearing species than the foolishness of Homo sapiens. We pretty much collectively suck.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

With due respect to Kirby & Van, I personally believe there is still a false equivalency. There have always been violent anarchists, just as there have always been violent nationalists, but the symmetry ends there, in my opinion.

 

Antifa— show me their websites, their storefronts, their radio program advertisers, show me the police forces who stand back and let Antifa conduct their business undisturbed, and I will really reconsider. (I’ve changed my mind before.) I’m partly banging the same drum I always bang, but partly willing to be educated, too. I am not defending Antifa (whatever it is). Aside from some loosely organized groups for the purpose of propaganda or announcing events, I just don’t think there’s an organization there. It goes against the anarchist nature of these individuals. Yes I think they should be policed and charged for crimes. I think they are just sick individuals floating in and out, crossing the country, looking to cause trouble. No permanent addresses, willing to spend their nights in jails.

 

Sorry, getting wordy.

 

Here, have a wordy article (note—from 2017).

 

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/11/13/far-right-conspiracists-stir-hysteria-about-nonexistent-civil-war-plot-antifa

[Mike Sixel]

 

The hypocrisy is real... People around the country despised Trump for downplaying the white supremacists in Charlottesville, and deservedly so.

Now media outlets and Democratic candidates are pretending Antifa doesn't exist. Or worse, they're doing good work because they're assaulting people on the other side of the political fence.

It's amazing that one Democratic candidate, Andrew ****ing Yang, has commented about this.

https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1145755562816266240?s=19

 

Not mentioning Antifa is the same as having white supremacists as part of your advisors? Its the same as actually saying racist things? 

 

That's a bad take, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

It's not like the media here in town like them all that much, and don't mention them in harsh terms......

[Vanimal46]

With due respect to Kirby & Van, I personally believe there is still a false equivalency. There have always been violent anarchists, just as there have always been violent nationalists, but the symmetry ends there, in my opinion.

 

Antifa— show me their websites, their storefronts, their radio program advertisers, show me the police forces who stand back and let Antifa conduct their business undisturbed, and I will really reconsider. (I’ve changed my mind before.) I’m partly banging the same drum I always bang, but partly willing to be educated, too. I am not defending Antifa (whatever it is). Aside from some loosely organized groups for the purpose of propaganda or announcing events, I just don’t think there’s an organization there. It goes against the anarchist nature of these individuals. Yes I think they should be policed and charged for crimes. I think they are just sick individuals floating in and out, crossing the country, looking to cause trouble. No permanent addresses, willing to spend their nights in jails.

 

Sorry, getting wordy.

 

Here, have a wordy article (note—from 2017).

 

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/11/13/far-right-conspiracists-stir-hysteria-about-nonexistent-civil-war-plot-antifa

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/898672891213959169?s=19

 

Their websites? Check out Twitter... You need to be admitted to their Facebook groups and I don't particularly want to do that for research!

 

Bit of a strawman with the police forces standing back and letting them do their business. What police force stands back for anyone displaying violent acts?

[Vanimal46]

Not mentioning Antifa is the same as having white supremacists as part of your advisors? Its the same as actually saying racist things?

 

That's a bad take, imo.

I don't follow the dots you're connecting from my post.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't follow the dots you're connecting from my post.

 

Pretty sure you said that Dem candidates not mentioning Antia is the same as what POTUS is doing literally by listening to, employing, and supporting white supremacists....

[KirbyDome89]

 

Pretty sure you said that Dem candidates not mentioning Antia is the same as what POTUS is doing literally by listening to, employing, and supporting white supremacists....

No, the point was that the extremist group(s) in Charlottesville were destroyed by the national media, and Trump was widely criticized for downplaying the rally. However, when Antifa, another extremist group, starts attacking political rivals, police, or anybody on the ground it's ignored, defended, or in some cases outright supported by the same media outlets. Van's right, it's a total hypocrisy. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

With due respect to Kirby & Van, I personally believe there is still a false equivalency. There have always been violent anarchists, just as there have always been violent nationalists, but the symmetry ends there, in my opinion.

Antifa— show me their websites, their storefronts, their radio program advertisers, show me the police forces who stand back and let Antifa conduct their business undisturbed, and I will really reconsider. (I’ve changed my mind before.) I’m partly banging the same drum I always bang, but partly willing to be educated, too. I am not defending Antifa (whatever it is). Aside from some loosely organized groups for the purpose of propaganda or announcing events, I just don’t think there’s an organization there. It goes against the anarchist nature of these individuals. Yes I think they should be policed and charged for crimes. I think they are just sick individuals floating in and out, crossing the country, looking to cause trouble. No permanent addresses, willing to spend their nights in jails.

Sorry, getting wordy.

Here, have a wordy article (note—from 2017).

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/11/13/far-right-conspiracists-stir-hysteria-about-nonexistent-civil-war-plot-antifa

To echo Van, they're far from loosely organized. They're notorious on Twitter for promoting and threatening violence as well as doxxing. It isn't by chance that mobs of individuals dressed in all black and masks show up to these rallies. If you don't want to dig through Twitter or FB (understandable) I'd urge to you listen to the podcast Tim Pool did with Joe Rogan where he goes over how groups like Antifa organize/exist and how they're overlooked in comparison to other extremist groups. 

[Mr. Brooks]

No, the point was that the extremist group(s) in Charlottesville were destroyed by the national media, and Trump was widely criticized for downplaying the rally. However, when Antifa, another extremist group, starts attacking political rivals, police, or anybody on the ground it's ignored, defended, or in some cases outright supported by the same media outlets. Van's right, it's a total hypocrisy.

I agree, hypocrisy needs to be called out, ESPECIALLY when it's on your own side.

And this is hypocrisy.

Just because one thing doesn't rise to the scope or severity of another thing, doesn't make it a false equivalency to call them both out.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Bit of a strawman with the police forces standing back and letting them do their business. What police force stands back for anyone displaying violent acts?

Charlotte. Come on, man.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

To echo Van, they're far from loosely organized. They're notorious on Twitter for promoting and threatening violence as well as doxxing. It isn't by chance that mobs of individuals dressed in all black and masks show up to these rallies. If you don't want to dig through Twitter or FB (understandable) I'd urge to you listen to the podcast Tim Pool did with Joe Rogan where he goes over how groups like Antifa organize/exist and how they're overlooked in comparison to other extremist groups.

According to the link Vanimal supplied me, Antifa is fighting against fascists and neo-nazis, and is a response to the violence coming from the right. Which all sounds right to me.

 

So maybe you, Vanimal, or Mr Brooks can remind me of why that is a bad thing, or why Marshall and Eisenhower were wrong to fight against that 75 years ago. Thanks in advance.

 

Again

[Mr. Brooks]

According to the link Vanimal supplied me, Antifa is fighting against fascists and neo-nazis, and is a response to the violence coming from the right. Which all sounds right to me.

 

So maybe you, Vanimal, or Mr Brooks can remind me of why that is a bad thing, or why Marshall and Eisenhower were wrong to fight against that 75 years ago. Thanks in advance.

 

Again

I'm sure the Nazi's and white nationalists think they are fighting the good fight too.

Are you actually justifying violence and intimidation? I want to make sure I give you the chance to clarify what it seems like you're saying.

[Squirrel]

I'm sure the Nazi's and white nationalists think they are fighting the good fight too.

Are you actually justifying violence and intimidation? I want to make sure I give you the chance to clarify what it seems like you're saying.

No, violence is not justifiable nor the answer, at least not imo. But one side is worse than the other, also imo, and the violence on both sides is not equal, so yes, the violence on one side is worse than the other. That is not justifying one over the other, because as I said, I don’t condone violence. Maybe to you it sounds like justification. But one side is evil. The other I think is misguided in how to fight it. And some small part of me, despite my not condoning the violence, despite knowing how it’s wrong, there is a small part of me that wants one side to win over the other, even if the method is misguided. It doesn’t excuse it and I’m not excusing it, but it is a false equivalent by the way I see it.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm sure the Nazi's and white nationalists think they are fighting the good fight too.

Are you actually justifying violence and intimidation? I want to make sure I give you the chance to clarify what it seems like you're saying.

No. I said as much in an earlier post you apparently didn’t read (hold anyone accountable for committing crimes for example, destroying property, crashing out those windows).

 

It’s a little bit harder when we have two large groups of people with equal manpower telling each other they want to meet in a pre-arranged place to smash each others’ skulls. As we have now. I can’t really fault the police for not intervening. I really have no idea what there is to do.

 

And for your part, I will mark you down as a relativist and neutral on the issue of World War II, since the Nazi party believed it was doing the right thing too, ya know.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Bit of a strawman with the police forces standing back and letting them do their business. What police force stands back for anyone displaying violent acts?

Revising my previous comment.

 

In Charlotte, the black man who was beaten by white nationalists, was originally the one charged with assault. Yeah, you read that right.

 

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-deandre-harris-arrest-20171012-story.html

 

Fortunately (or miraculously, take your pick) the victim was ultimately found not guilty, and a couple of the men who actually assaulted Harris were found guilty. (Not all who participated, mind you. But a couple of them.)

 

I mean, originally, the guy who was beaten to a pulp was the one charged with the crime. Think about that. Stories like this cross the wire regularly if you are looking for them—and I don’t blame people for not looking for stories like this, but then when people are trying to tell you yes they exist, don’t try to play both sides, or “we need more facts”, because it feels like bad faith. (By the way I’m still waiting for the “need more facts” crowd to finally express their outrage about the Trayvon Martin murder.) On this particular story it took publicity on a national level to get the charges right. It took terrible, negative, national publicity for the PD to do the right thing. Think about it. Cops were standing around the perimeter while this one black individual was being beaten. The press, for their part, called the black man a “protester” which conjures a sort of emotion in readers, to cast doubt I guess, because everyone knows protesters are dirty violent hippies, or something. The Charlotte videos are out there if you wish to confirm. I’ve already linked to a news story on it.

 

So to answer your specific question in the quoted post, the Charlotte police force.

 

Thanks for linking that vid, by the way. It was good reporting, very well done, lots of stuff I assumed was confirmed, learned a couple things, and thought the segment was great overall (“respect the segment”—inside joke to you) until the end when CNN cut back to the studio commentary and tried to play the BothSides angle. I guess that’s a battle we media critics have lost forever. Both sides always, just because.

 

I don’t mean any of this personally, because I agree with most of your baseball takes and that’s ultimately more important to me on this site. I’m just trying to digitally shake your shoulders here on this social issue and look you on the eyes, and tell you it exists. And with that I’ll bow out of the thread for now. Upside down world indeed.

[Mr. Brooks]

No. I said as much in an earlier post you apparently didn’t read (hold anyone accountable for committing crimes for example, destroying property, crashing out those windows).

 

It’s a little bit harder when we have two large groups of people with equal manpower telling each other they want to meet in a pre-arranged place to smash each others’ skulls. As we have now. I can’t really fault the police for not intervening. I really have no idea what there is to do.

 

And for your part, I will mark you down as a relativist and neutral on the issue of World War II, since the Nazi party believed it was doing the right thing too, ya know.

You have absolutely no right to say that about me. None.

 

Violence at a protest full of innocent people on domestic turf isn't even in the same ballpark as fighting a war against a genocidal war machine.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

You have absolutely no right to say that about me. None.

Violence at a protest full of innocent people on domestic turf isn't even in the same ballpark as fighting a war against a genocidal war machine.

It’s not personal.

 

These are difficult times. The Nazi thing is not difficult, however. There is nothing in today’s American Nazis that tell me they wish to be seen as different from Germany’s Nazis.

[Craig Arko]

I think it’s a pretty big stretch (as in Pinocchio’s nose) to describe the proud boys as “innocent.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

[PseudoSABR]

Okay.  Antifa or what ever sect of it needs to be condemned.  That said I see a false equivalency on a number of levels: 1) kind/degree of violence 2) frequency of incidents 3) organization outside of social media 4) historical roots, and most importantly 5) normalization.  

 

Some are pretty eager to yell: see the Left does it too, without taking the above considerations in mind.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think it’s a pretty big stretch (as in Pinocchio’s nose) to describe the proud boys as “innocent.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

I wasn't talking about them.

There are reporters and unaffiliated protesters there.

 

But hey kids, violence IS the answer, collateral damage be dammed, so long as you think you are on the right side. Screw Dr. King and Ghandi.