Gimenez vs Garver

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Which makes you wonder why it's just now happening

Before now, his bat never profiled well enough to matter. He was a catcher or he was out of baseball. His small breakout this season probably forced a revaluation of what he might do as an MLB hitter (though the sample size is still quite small).

[drjim]

Worst scenario would be that they don't think he's going to be a good enough catcher and want to see if he can provide value elsewhere. Probably doesn't have enough bat.

 

Best scenario is they want to have more versatile backup catchers, who can provide the occasional game at another position.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Before now, his bat never profiled well enough to matter. He was a catcher or he was out of baseball. His small breakout this season probably forced a revaluation of what he might do as an MLB hitter (though the sample size is still quite small).

Garver is basically doing the same thing with the bat that he's always done.  wRC+ marks in his pro career: 96 (rookie league), 154, 116, 118, 136 (his brief AAA debut last year), and 129 this year.

[yarnivek1972]

Before now, his bat never profiled well enough to matter. He was a catcher or he was out of baseball. His small breakout this season probably forced a revaluation of what he might do as an MLB hitter (though the sample size is still quite small).

He's hit well enough to want to keep his bat in the lineup at almost every level. He had an .880 OPS in low A ball back in 2014. His .750 OPS in AA last year was bested only by Edgar Corcino, Niko Goodrum and Daniel Palka. And he posted an .815 in a month or so at AAA last year. He has played quite a bit at first in the minors. 24 career starts at 1b compared with about 200 career starts overall.

 

That's another thing about Garver. He's only started about 180 minor league games at catcher. Compare that to JR Murphy (roughly same age), who between MLB and the minors has caught over 550 games as a starter. The reason Garver seems raw behind the dish is simply because he is. But most scouting reports I have seen said he's already better than he was expected to be.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Garver is basically doing the same thing with the bat that he's always done.  wRC+ marks in his pro career: 96 (rookie league), 154, 116, 118, 136 (his brief AAA debut last year), and 129 this year.

Well, yes and no. Since heading to Rochester, he's ~15 points higher in wRC+. That's not nothing. And this year, he has seen a respectable step forward in both power and discipline.

 

But we're still at the sample size where his Rochester stats are heavily influenced by two months: one in 2016, and one this season. It's hard to get a read whether he's a slightly better player or just a slightly luckier player.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

He's hit well enough to want to keep his bat in the lineup at almost every level. He had an .880 OPS in low A ball back in 2014. His .750 OPS in AA last year was bested only by Edgar Corcino, Niko Goodrum and Daniel Palka. And he posted an .815 in a month or so at AAA last year. He has played quite a bit at first in the minors. 24 career starts at 1b compared with about 200 career starts overall.

Sure, he had an acceptable bat at most levels... for a catcher. He's been a fair amount better than that since the promotion to Rochester.

 

And sorry, but I don't give much weight to what a guy did in Cedar Rapids when both his Ft Myers and Chattanooga numbers were pretty pedestrian. He accumulated ~930 plate appearances between those two levels. His bat was okay (again, for a catcher) but considering his age, not terribly impressive.

 

That doesn't mean I'm down on Garver or anything, just pointing out that he has nearly 2,000 plate appearances in the minors and his numbers in the high minors weren't note-worthy until he hit Rochester.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Sure, he had an acceptable bat at most levels... for a catcher. He's been a fair amount better than that since the promotion to Rochester.

 

And sorry, but I don't give much weight to what a guy did in Cedar Rapids when both his Ft Myers and Chattanooga numbers were pretty pedestrian. He accumulated ~930 plate appearances between those two levels. His bat was okay (again, for a catcher) but considering his age, not terribly impressive.

 

That doesn't mean I'm down on Garver or anything, just pointing out that he has nearly 2,000 plate appearances in the minors and his numbers in the high minors weren't note-worthy until he hit Rochester.

As I said, good enough to stay in the lineup when he wasn't catching, considering his teammates, particularly at AA - where he was the 3rd or 4th best hitter and now in AAA where is the best by a considerable margin.  That's why he is getting playing time at spots other than catcher.  He probably wouldn't at the MLB level, not regularly anyway.  But that flexibility is still nice to have in an emergency.

 

As for his age, not everyone is Joe Mauer.  Most catchers take years to develop their catching skills.  Yeah, he's quite a bit older than most prospects, but that's because he didn't start his pro career until age 22.

[jorgenswest]

Catcher is a defense first position and in the eyes of some organizations the most critical position on defense. There is no data we can look at and have a reasonable picture of defensive skill of a catcher in the minors. Garver's bat is of limited value at catcher if he is not seen as an asset defensively.

 

The new front office and emphasis on analytics places great importance on not only the catcher's skill but also preparation. I would assume they are developing those skills and ability to prepare in Murphy and Garver. I assume the better defender will emerge when a catcher is needed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

As I said, good enough to stay in the lineup when he wasn't catching, considering his teammates, particularly at AA - where he was the 3rd or 4th best hitter and now in AAA where is the best by a considerable margin.  That's why he is getting playing time at spots other than catcher.  He probably wouldn't at the MLB level, not regularly anyway.  But that flexibility is still nice to have in an emergency.

 

As for his age, not everyone is Joe Mauer.  Most catchers take years to develop their catching skills.  Yeah, he's quite a bit older than most prospects, but that's because he didn't start his pro career until age 22.

Again, not down on Garver, just pointing out his relative weaknesses, which he does have.

 

Not everyone is Joe Mauer and while catchers generally take longer to hone their defensive craft in the minors, we should also note that Garver is entering his prime as a hitter, which needs to be considered when evaluating his bat.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Again, not down on Garver, just pointing out his relative weaknesses, which he does have.

 

Not everyone is Joe Mauer and while catchers generally take longer to hone their defensive craft in the minors, we should also note that Garver is entering his prime as a hitter, which needs to be considered when evaluating his bat.

 

if only there was a way he could be playing in the majors during his prime, instead of a journeyman catcher that we know can't hit and isn't part of the (winning?) future.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Which makes you wonder why it's just now happening

 

Because the Twins didn't have Jason Castro until this year. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

if only there was a way he could be playing in the majors during his prime, instead of a journeyman catcher that we know can't hit and isn't part of the (winning?) future.

Possibly, but given Gimenez's play in a backup role (.734 OPS), it's pretty hard to get riled up one way or the other.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I like Garver, to be clear, but I'd also note that while he's putting up good offensive numbers, he's striking out a lot in Rochester as well. Granted, he takes a lot of walks, but he isn't the high power type guy that you can live with being a high K high BB type guy. I think Garver gets his shot if/when someone gets hurt and will likely slide into the backup C/occasional OF/occasional DH type role on the team in 2018, which I'm fine with. The real problem is the lack of catching options behind him.

[Doomtints]

 

I like Garver, to be clear, but I'd also note that while he's putting up good offensive numbers, he's striking out a lot in Rochester as well. Granted, he takes a lot of walks, but he isn't the high power type guy that you can live with being a high K high BB type guy. I think Garver gets his shot if/when someone gets hurt and will likely slide into the backup C/occasional OF/occasional DH type role on the team in 2018, which I'm fine with. The real problem is the lack of catching options behind him.

 

He has an .841 OPS. Let 'em have his 1K/game.

[drjim]

Can Garver also pitch?