Berardino: Suzuki on Trade Waivers

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Think about it from Suzuki's perspective. He's going to go to a winning team with a chance to be in the playoffs. Reward him for toiling along with this putrid team the past few years. 

 

 

That may be true, and it may not be. Only one that knows Suzuki's perspective is Suzuki, and he's been quiet. It is quite possible he doesn't want to be traded. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

There was an article recently about Suzuki being happy with his young family in Minnesota.

 

Now, you'd think a month or two away to pursue a championship wouldn't matter that much, especially when he is a free agent after the season anyway. But there it is.

[d-mac]

 

That may be true, and it may not be. Only one that knows Suzuki's perspective is Suzuki, and he's been quiet. It is quite possible he doesn't want to be traded. 

 

Who wouldn't want a shot at the World Series? And trading him now won't prevent him to coming back to the Twins if he really wanted to. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Who wouldn't want a shot at the World Series? And trading him now won't prevent him to coming back to the Twins if he really wanted to. 

 

As a fan, I'd want to win the World Series.

 

But in any profession, relocating, no matter what kind of added perks and no matter how long, is rarely a no-brainier. Unless your single.

[RedBull34]

Think about it from Suzuki's perspective. He's going to go to a winning team with a chance to be in the playoffs. Reward him for toiling along with this putrid team the past few years.

 

And you and I have very different conceptions of what nothing means. A bag of balls is something. Letting Suzuki walk as a free agent is getting nothing for him. Teams that are rebuilding don't usually let their free agents walk for nothing.

 

Furthermore, players will be had for very little if they are worth very little on the market. Demand dictates how much they are worth. Trading away Suzuki will have zero bearing on future trades.

 

And lastly, if you are willing to bench Suzuki to play Murphy and Garver, why the heck do you want to pay him to set on the bench? Let someone else pay the remainder of his salary and give him an opportunity play a role on playoff team.

1. Manager works for the team not the player.

 

2. Org Filler is nothing. No value at all. They can be signed anytime, it doesnt matter who it is.

 

3. It's about perception. I've seen people commenting how we should never trade with the A's, because of their perception of Beane as a savvy trader. It exists.

 

4. I already stated what value he would have.

[alarp33]

 

1. Manager works for the team not the player.

2. Org Filler is nothing. No value at all. They can be signed anytime, it doesnt matter who it is.

3. It's about perception. I've seen people commenting how we should never trade with the A's, because of their perception of Beane as a savvy trader. It exists.

4. I already stated what value he would have.

 

Thank God the Twins are upholding their league-wide perception.  Wouldn't want people thinking they are willing to rebuild by trading FA's to be during 90 loss season #5 in 6 years

[RedBull34]

Thank God the Twins are upholding their league-wide perception. Wouldn't want people thinking they are willing to rebuild by trading FA's to be during 90 loss season #5 in 6 years

I don't believe you've read any of my posts. Trading something for nothing doesnt do anything either or do you assume I'm advocating to not trading him?

 

The Twins have established that they are willing to trade, and theyve recieved two quality prospects. Thank God they don't just agree to the initially offered Org Filler!

[Thrylos]

 

It's unfortunate Molitor's job has been declared secure,

 

by the same guy who declared Ryan's job secure a month before he fired him...

[alarp33]

 

I don't believe you've read any of my posts. Trading something for nothing doesnt do anything either or do you assume I'm advocating to not trading him?

The Twins have established that they are willing to trade, and theyve recieved two quality prospects. Thank God they don't just agree to the initially offered Org Filler!

 

You are concerned about the perception of trading a veteran FA to be that other teams apparently have no interest in even acquiring.  Nothing about that makes sense.  

[RedBull34]

You are concerned about the perception of trading a veteran FA to be that other teams apparently have no interest in even acquiring. Nothing about that makes sense.

Not even close. I'm asking why should the Twins trade Suzuki for Org Filler? The Twins could out of hand acquire that for nothing. The most compelling reason to trade Suzuki for Org Filler is for Suzuki and he does not seem inclined to leave. I don't know that, but it's my perception.

 

Otherwise I would like to see him traded for a team ranked 20-30 prospect.

 

So my question is, what is the lowest bar you would trade Suzuki for? Would you trade him for Org Filler or cash? If so, why? Whata the point/value in that? What kind of signal does that send to the team and fans?

[alarp33]

 

Not even close. I'm asking why should the Twins trade Suzuki for Org Filler? The Twins could out of hand acquire that for nothing. The most compelling reason to trade Suzuki for Org Filler is for Suzuki and he does not seem inclined to leave. I don't know that, but it's my perception.

Otherwise I would like to see him traded for a team ranked 20-30 prospect.

So my question is, what is the lowest bar you would trade Suzuki for? Would you trade him for Org Filler or cash? If so, why? Whata the point/value in that? What kind of signal does that send to the team and fans?

 

I would trade him for Org filler or cash, because he holds no other value to the Twins in their current situation, and that is his value.  They are better off giving Murphy/ Centeno/ Garver, etc. a look before 2017.  

 

The point? The point is to recoup literally anything before he leaves for absolutely nothing.  

 

What kind of signal does it send to the team and fans? I don't even know how to answer this it is so silly.  That free agents to be can be traded in a lost season?

[RedBull34]

 

I would trade him for Org filler or cash, because he holds no other value to the Twins in their current situation, and that is his value.  They are better off giving Murphy/ Centeno/ Garver, etc. a look before 2017.  

 

The point? The point is to recoup literally anything before he leaves for absolutely nothing.  

 

What kind of signal does it send to the team and fans? I don't even know how to answer this it is so silly.  That free agents to be can be traded in a lost season?

Ahh, but he does have value.  That is the value of his mentoring for the rest of the year.  I've already stated that.  Do you not believe that Suzuki can not help Graver or Murphy transition more effectively to the MLB?  I do.

 

Suzuki does not have to be playing to have value.  I've never advocated him playing more then 1 or 2 a week to finish out the year.

[alarp33]

 

Ahh, but he does have value.  That is the value of his mentoring for the rest of the year.  I've already stated that.  Do you not believe that Suzuki can not help Graver or Murphy transition more effectively to the MLB?  I do.

 

Suzuki does not have to be playing to have value.  I've never advocated him playing more then 1 or 2 a week to finish out the year.

 

Where was Suzuki's mentoring value to Murphy in February through May?  Is it only an end of the year thing or how does this perceived mentoring value work?  

 

How many points of WAR is it worth in Garver/Murphy's future career?

[RedBull34]

 

Where was Suzuki's mentoring value to Murphy in February through May?  Is it only an end of the year thing or how does this perceived mentoring value work?  

 

How many points of WAR is it worth in Garver/Murphy's future career?

A.  You still have to not suck *cough* Murphy *cough*, and if you recall Suzuki was struggling with his own issues during that time. 

 

B. Stop your patronizing, unless you have absolutely no knowledge of how mentoring works, which I assume you do.

 

C.  How they hell would I know, but if it's worth even .1, then it's worth it.  And his mentoring just might be.

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Where was Suzuki's mentoring value to Murphy in February through May?  Is it only an end of the year thing or how does this perceived mentoring value work?  

 

How many points of WAR is it worth in Garver/Murphy's future career?

 

If mentoring was boiled down to questions like this, there would be no mentors... yet why do you seem them in the corporate world?  For that matter, why do you see them in baseball? 

 

They have an impact, and there's zero way to quantify that except that most successful players will certainly attribute success to one at some point along the way.

 

I don't have a problem with the Twins holding on to Zuke if the best offer is org filler.  I don't. It isn't that big of a deal. You wont' see Garver until September anyway... same with Murphy (if you see either at all).

[alarp33]

 

A.  You still have to not suck *cough* Murphy *cough*, and if you recall Suzuki was struggling with his own issues during that time. 

 

B. Stop your patronizing, unless you have absolutely no knowledge of how mentoring works, which I assume you do.

 

C.  How they hell would I know, but if it's worth even .1, then it's worth it.  And his mentoring just might be.

 

I'm confused, so if a player is good, it's mentoring, but if he stinks, he can't be mentored?  Should they have traded for Lucroy and had Suzuki mentor him? I bet that mentor-ship would've been successful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alarp33]

 

If mentoring was boiled down to questions like this, there would be no mentors... yet why do you seem them in the corporate world?  For that matter, why do you see them in baseball? 

 

They have an impact, and there's zero way to quantify that except that most successful players will certainly attribute success to one at some point along the way.

 

I don't have a problem with the Twins holding on to Zuke if the best offer is org filler.  I don't. It isn't that big of a deal. You wont' see Garver until September anyway... same with Murphy (if you see either at all).

I'm sorry I don't understand the parallels between the corporate world and a catcher being on the roster or not being on the roster in September.  

 

Sure, veteran players can have an impact along the way on younger players.  I believe that.  

 

If you really believe Kurt Suzuki in the month of September is going to have some tangible impact on the career of John Ryan Murphy... well, we aren't going to see eye to eye on that. Again, I would ask you where this was Feb-May

 

Doesn't that kind of remind you how we've been sold by the front office this bill of goods that Suzuki was given an extension to continue to mentor the pitching staff?  The same pitching staff that has been the worst in baseball basically his entire MN Twins career?

[RedBull34]

 

I'm confused, so if a player is good, it's mentoring, but if he stinks, he can't be mentored?  Should they have traded for Lucroy and had Suzuki mentor him? I bet that mentor-ship would've been successful.

Complete swing and a miss.  You CAN mentor bad players, and the lessons might even take, but some people are not good enough to play in the MLB, like me and you (assuming you never played at that level).  Buster Posey couldn't mentor me to play in the bigs. 

 

And mentorship only works on those who are less experienced or younger. Lucroy is not that.

But please continue enlightening me with your intellectual superiority.  Sarcasm and patronization are in no way overdone on the internet (I know, I used sarcasm, what a hypocrite)

 

[alarp33]

 

Complete swing and a miss.  You CAN mentor bad players, and the lessons might even take, but some people are not good enough to play in the MLB, like me and you (assuming you never played at that level).  Buster Posey couldn't mentor me to play in the bigs. 

 

And mentorship only works on those who are less experienced or younger. Lucroy is not that.

But please continue enlightening me with your intellectual superiority.  Sarcasm and patronization are in no way overdone on the internet (I know, I used sarcasm, what a hypocrite)

 

So the Twins should get better players than Murphy? I don't think they can do that as we sit here August 18th.  So again, who or what is he mentoring? You claimed there was tangible value in his mentor-ship. 

 

Lucroy is younger and less experienced than Suzuki, fwiw. 

[Doomtints]

Murphy looked like he could put on his own jockstrap before he came to the Twins.  Since being a Twin he has looked so terrible that it seems possible that he will never be able to play in the majors ever again.  There's no way Suzuki alone screwed him up that much.

 

Maybe Murphy is injured, maybe he's down about the trade, maybe he wasn't clicking with the Twins players or management.  Saying this is Suzuki's fault is just weird.  Ultimately this is on Murphy, no one else can make him play well except him.

[alarp33]

 

Murphy looked like he could put on his jockstrap before he came to the Twins.  Since being a Twin he has looked so terrible that it seems possible that he will never be able to play in the majors ever again.  There's no way Suzuki alone screwed him up that much.

 

Maybe Murphy is injured, maybe he's down about the trade, maybe he wasn't clicking with the Twins players or management.  Saying this is Suzuki's fault is just weird.  Ultimately this is on Murphy, no one else can make him play well except him.

 

I don't think anyone blamed Suzuki for Murphy's struggles, not even close.  

 

I asked about the mythical mentor-ship role Suzuki is providing, why it was no help to Murphy if it exists and is so valuable

[RedBull34]

 

So the Twins should get better players than Murphy? I don't think they can do that as we sit here August 18th.  So again, who or what is he mentoring? You claimed there was tangible value in his mentor-ship. 

 

Lucroy is younger and less experienced than Suzuki, fwiw. 

You like straw men don't you?

 

Garver could be mentored.  Mentoring is an ongoing process, not a data download, questions come up and need to be answered as time goes on.

 

Obviously Lucroy would have little to learn from Suzuki, generally mentorship is people at a successful level or beyond teaching those who have yet to reach that level.

 

 

[jimmer]

 

You like straw men don't you?

 

 

The one in the Wizard of Oz was quite nice.

[alarp33]

 

You like straw men don't you?

 

Garver could be mentored.  Mentoring is an ongoing process, not a data download, questions come up and need to be answered as time goes on.

 

Obviously Lucroy would have little to learn from Suzuki, generally mentorship is people at a successful level or beyond teaching those who have yet to reach that level.

 

Ongoing for how long? There is about 6 weeks left in the season, and Garver is in AAA.  If Garver had a question pop up could he ask someone else, like his Hall of Fame manager, or does it have to be Suzuki?

 

Ok on Lucroy, just was clarifying since you 1st said "the player has to be younger and less experienced"

[Craig Arko]

The one in the Wizard of Oz was quite nice.

If he only had a brain.

[RedBull34]

 

Ongoing for how long? There is about 6 weeks left in the season, and Garver is in AAA.  If Garver had a question pop up could he ask someone else, like his Hall of Fame manager, or does it have to be Suzuki?

 

Ok on Lucroy, just was clarifying since you 1st said "the player has to be younger and less experienced"

I have no idea how much Molitor knows about catching.  In this case, it seems Suzuki would be better since he has more experience there, but I could be wrong.

 

The thought is that Garver will be up in September, and while the opportunity to do much is limited (because it is only one month) I still value that higher then a random org filler or cash for Pohlad's pockets. 

 

I don't value it higher then an actual prospect, which has been my point all along.

[alarp33]

 

I have no idea how much Molitor knows about catching.  In this case, it seems Suzuki would be better since he has more experience there, but I could be wrong.

 

The thought is that Garver will be up in September, and while the opportunity to do much is limited (because it is only one month) I still value that higher then a random org filler or cash for Pohlad's pockets. 

 

I don't value it higher then an actual prospect, which has been my point all along.

 

Maybe that $1.5 million the Pohlad's save by unloading Suzuki for org filler allows them to pay candidate #1 on the GM list?  Seems at least as plausible as any perceived value Suzuki provides to a potential September call-up in a lost season.  

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Suzuki being valuable as a mentor.  We've heard it for 3 years he has been here, and year after year the pitching staff is the worst in baseball, and there hasn't exactly been a young catcher come up and been helped by him

[Doomtints]

 

I don't think anyone blamed Suzuki for Murphy's struggles, not even close.  

 

I asked about the mythical mentor-ship role Suzuki is providing, why it was no help to Murphy if it exists and is so valuable

 

Half of the mentoring battle is having a receptive person to mentor, as any parent of a teenager can attest.

[jimbo92107]

I suppose if Garver needs advice, he could ask Joe Mauer, too. 

[Doomtints]

 

Ongoing for how long? There is about 6 weeks left in the season, and Garver is in AAA.  

 

Forever.  Mentoring is a process, not an event.  A young catcher should have questions for years, though there would be fewer questions as time goes on.