What happens when Danny Santana is activated?

[d-mac]

 

 

But the real reason will be that right now I think that the Twins loathe inconsistency and unpredictability even more than losing, and along with his talent, Dantana has bushels of both those traits.

 

I think this a really insightful... insight. It perfectly describes their handling of all the young players for years.

[Blake]

 

I think at one point the way Twins developed (and still develop) players worked. But baseball is different now. And what they are doing clearly isn't working anymore.

I would argue the Twins were better at developing players when the Griffith's owned the team and lost their way after MacPhail left. Remember, the biggest complaints about Griffith was that he would never pay players to stay and that the Twins were basically just an MLB farm team for the rest of the league.

 

I thought you showed fairly clearly the Twins weren't getting people through the lower minors quickly enough, along with not properly managing the 40 man roster. Or, one is affecting the other.

 

Just wondering, have you looked at college players in the Twins system? Seems to me college players should spend very little time in the lower minors before hitting Double AA ball. I think players just out of college should be a lot closer to MLB ready than kids just out of high school. I ask, because I'm under the impression the Twins tend to move players out of college through the system at the same rate as high school players. But that's just an impression. Nothing factual to back it up.

 

Everything I've read says AA is the place where the rubber really starts to meet the road when it comes to player development. Therefore, players should get to AA as fast as possible in order for the organization to find out just what they have.

[mazeville]

Trade Plouffe. Use Nunez at third until Sano comes back. Put Escobar at short. Use Santana as the utility guy.

 

You could make the case for sending down Buxton or, preferably, Max Kepler. But frankly I'd prefer the much stronger defense associated with having both of them in the field at the same time. Santana's offensive stats aren't nearly enough to warrant him starting at center - or even right field, for that matter. 

 

At this point in this ugly, lost season, it makes far more sense to play young kids rather than give someone an unearned job.

[d-mac]

 

I would argue the Twins were better at developing players when the Griffith's owned the team and lost their way after MacPhail left. Remember, the biggest complaints about Griffith was that he would never pay players to stay and that the Twins were basically just an MLB farm team for the rest of the league.

 

I thought you showed fairly clearly the Twins weren't getting people through the lower minors quickly enough, along with not properly managing the 40 man roster. Or, one is affecting the other.

 

Just wondering, have you looked at college players in the Twins system? Seems to me college players should spend very little time in the lower minors before hitting Double AA ball. I think players just out of college should be a lot closer to MLB ready than kids just out of high school. I ask, because I'm under the impression the Twins tend to move players out of college through the system at the same rate as high school players. But that's just an impression. Nothing factual to back it up.

 

Everything I've read says AA is the place where the rubber really starts to meet the road when it comes to player development. Therefore, players should get to AA as fast as possible in order for the organization to find out just what they have.

 

I think the Twins did a pretty good job developing players at the turn of the century- but the game is different now, especially when it comes to the quality of pitching. It appears to me that the Twins can't develop (or know how to handle) pitchers with swing stuff nor do they know how to prepare their young hitters to face the quality of pitching in the game during the past decade, really. 

[d-mac]

 

 

Just wondering, have you looked at college players in the Twins system? Seems to me college players should spend very little time in the lower minors before hitting Double AA ball. I think players just out of college should be a lot closer to MLB ready than kids just out of high school. I ask, because I'm under the impression the Twins tend to move players out of college through the system at the same rate as high school players. But that's just an impression. Nothing factual to back it up.

 

Everything I've read says AA is the place where the rubber really starts to meet the road when it comes to player development. Therefore, players should get to AA as fast as possible in order for the organization to find out just what they have.

 

Most Twins' non-first round college players start at E-town (some of the late round picks even start at the GCL facing high school and foreign players!) and then move one-level a year until AA.

 

Look at LaMonte Wade- Any other org he'd be at High-A now. Mitch Garver spent a full season in A ball in 2014, despite being a college draftee, and he had an OPS of .880 and a BB/K of .94 in 504 PA. It should be about getting college players to AA as quickly as possible, they really don't need a full year at A-ball. 

 

I have no idea if this has any affect on development, but the Twins are one of 13 teams with the minimum 7 minor league affiliates. 17 teams have 8 or more. The Yankees have the most with 10 affiliates. The Twins are one of just 8 teams without a Short-Season A team (KC has 3 rookie level teams so they don't really count). Now some teams have one rookie level team (GCL or AZL) and SS A level team and two DSL teams. The model I do like- with two rookie teams (GCL/AZL and Appy/Pioneer League), and a SS-A team (NY-Penn Lg or Northwest League). 8 teams have that set up- D'backs, Astros (Astros have 2 DSL teams), Mets (Mets have 2 DSL teams), Yankees (Yankees have two GCL and DSL teams), Pirates, Cardinals, Rays (Rays have a Venezuelan SL team in addition to their DSL team), and the Blue Jays. 

 

As far as the 8-team set up goes, the GCL/AZL teams are for most high-school and first year (in the states) foreign players; the APPY/Pioneer level teams are for low-level college players that come from poor levels of competition, advanced first-year high school draftees, and 2nd year rookie players that haven't shown enough to go straight to A ball. The Short Season A teams then are exclusively for first year college draftees to get their feet wet after signing. Many of the top college draftees then (if the show enough in SS-A) then jump straight to High-A for for either a full or half year, then a full year at AA, then at least a half season at AAA. The rest of the college draftees get a half year in A ball, then go to High-A. High schoolers, since they take longer, would take a more individualised approach. The goal would be to get them through the rookie levels to A-ball and then only send them to High-A once they've mastered low-A- whether its a half-season, a full season, or two full seasons.  

[d-mac]

 

 

 

I have no idea if this has any affect on development, but the Twins are one of 13 teams with the minimum 7 minor league affiliates. 17 teams have 8 or more. The Yankees have the most with 10 affiliates. The Twins are one of just 8 teams without a Short-Season A team (KC has 3 rookie level teams so they don't really count). Now some teams have one rookie level team (GCL or AZL) and SS A level team and two DSL teams. The model I do like- with two rookie teams (GCL/AZL and Appy/Pioneer League), and a SS-A team (NY-Penn Lg or Northwest League). 8 teams have that set up- D'backs, Astros (Astros have 2 DSL teams), Mets (Mets have 2 DSL teams), Yankees (Yankees have two GCL and DSL teams), Pirates, Cardinals, Rays (Rays have a Venezuelan SL team in addition to their DSL team), and the Blue Jays. 

 

 

Also forgot to mention that there are only 5 teams to have a similar structure to their minor leagues as the Twins (7 teams, 1 foreign rookie team, 2 rookie teams, no Short Season A teams)- the Braves, White Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Brewers. 

[Blake]

 

Most Twins' non-first round college players start at E-town (some of the late round picks even start at the GCL facing high school and foreign players!) and then move one-level a year until AA.

 

Look at LaMonte Wade- Any other org he'd be at High-A now. Mitch Garver spent a full season in A ball in 2014, despite being a college draftee, and he had an OPS of .880 and a BB/K of .94 in 504 PA. It should be about getting college players to AA as quickly as possible, they really don't need a full year at A-ball. 

 

I have no idea if this has any affect on development, but the Twins are one of 13 teams with the minimum 7 minor league affiliates. 17 teams have 8 or more. The Yankees have the most with 10 affiliates. The Twins are one of just 8 teams without a Short-Season A team (KC has 3 rookie level teams so they don't really count). Now some teams have one rookie level team (GCL or AZL) and SS A level team and two DSL teams. The model I do like- with two rookie teams (GCL/AZL and Appy/Pioneer League), and a SS-A team (NY-Penn Lg or Northwest League). 8 teams have that set up- D'backs, Astros (Astros have 2 DSL teams), Mets (Mets have 2 DSL teams), Yankees (Yankees have two GCL and DSL teams), Pirates, Cardinals, Rays (Rays have a Venezuelan SL team in addition to their DSL team), and the Blue Jays. 

 

As far as the 8-team set up goes, the GCL/AZL teams are for most high-school and first year (in the states) foreign players; the APPY/Pioneer level teams are for low-level college players that come from poor levels of competition, advanced first-year high school draftees, and 2nd year rookie players that haven't shown enough to go straight to A ball. The Short Season A teams then are exclusively for first year college draftees to get their feet wet after signing. Many of the top college draftees then (if the show enough in SS-A) then jump straight to High-A for for either a full or half year, then a full year at AA, then at least a half season at AAA. The rest of the college draftees get a half year in A ball, then go to High-A. High schoolers, since they take longer, would take a more individualised approach. The goal would be to get them through the rookie levels to A-ball and then only send them to High-A once they've mastered low-A- whether its a half-season, a full season, or two full seasons.  

I understand this may not affect player development but from what I gather, the Twins reluctance to move players tends to impact the 40 man roster. Or am I misunderstanding the cause and effect? Or misunderstanding in general? 

 

Either way, your posts are very informative and I appreciate the effort you've taken to look at the issues surrounding player development and the construction of the 40 man roster.

[Mike Sixel]

the way the Twins start college players is one of the things KLAW has been critical of, in terms of how they start them against much lesser competition.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bring back Andy MacPhail!

 

Last I checked he is busy rebuilding the Phillies.  After posting the worst record in the majors last season, they are hovering around .500 this one, with a solid core of young players...  

 

Hail to Terry.  

[Winston Smith]

Position players don't look ready when they come up and pitchers don't look ready either. Time to admit this org. has a  fundamentally flawed baseball operation department or total system failure. 

They have been working around the edges this season to improve the team and that is likely how they will change the front office after the season, nibbling around the edges.

[d-mac]

 

I understand this may not affect player development but from what I gather, the Twins reluctance to move players tends to impact the 40 man roster. Or am I misunderstanding the cause and effect? Or misunderstanding in general? 

 

Either way, your posts are very informative and I appreciate the effort you've taken to look at the issues surrounding player development and the construction of the 40 man roster.

 

I think it would have to affect the way promotions are handled. More teams mean more roster space to promote or demote players without having to release them from the org. Take Wade. or Gonsalves, or even Tyler Jay. The only logical reason (at least to me as an outsider) why they have not been promoted yet is due to having no space in the AA rotation, or A+ outfield right now. Having an additional team would allow additional roster flexibility to send people up and down more easily without releasing a player you don't want to.  

[Blake]

 

I think it would have to affect the way promotions are handled. More teams mean more roster space to promote or demote players without having to release them from the org. Take Wade. or Gonsalves, or even Tyler Jay. The only logical reason (at least to me as an outsider) why they have not been promoted yet is due to having no space in the AA rotation, or A+ outfield right now. Having an additional team would allow additional roster flexibility to send people up and down more easily without releasing a player you don't want to.  

Okay, again, thanks for the information. Twins deficiencies aside, it's interesting and eye-opening to see what it takes to get a player MLB ready. 

[d-mac]

 

the way the Twins start college players is one of the things KLAW has been critical of, in terms of how they start them against much lesser competition.

 

An interesting exercise would be to look at college draftees' stats in college and compare them to their APPY league stats. LaMonte Wade is a great example. He played college ball for Maryland, which had the fun distinction of moving from the ACC to the Big Ten while he was playing there. We know that the ACC is one of the top 3 baseball conferences in the NCAA. The B1G is a power conference, but probably a third tier major conference. 

 

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=lamonte-wade If we look at Wade's stats we see had an OPS of .762 and .693 as a freshman and sophomore, respectively, while in the ACC. He had a K/BB 0.85 and 1.03 as a freshman and sophomore, respectively, and an ISO of .115, .088, and a BABIP of .304 and .283 for both years. During his junior year Maryland moved to the B1G, so we know Wade faced lesser competition. He OPS'd .921 as a junior, with a K/BB of 0.67, ISO .133, and a BABIP of .366. 

 

Now if we look at his APPY League stats (remember he is transitioning to wooden bats), he OPS'd .934 with a K/BB of 0.74, ISO of .195, with a BABIP of .330. To me this tells me that the level of competition in the ACC is greater than the competition in the ACC and the competition in the B1G is only slightly less than that of the B1G.  

 

[Rosterman]

You get rid of the pitcher who can only pitch to one or two batters (hummmmm....seems the way the bullpen works overall). 

 

I say a bit more seasoning for Kepler. But we still have a logjam. Assuming Santana is a versatile guy who can also play the infield, you still have Arcia needing at bats and Rosario and Kepler in the minors. Maybe Park needs to take a trip to Rochester.

[curt1965]

I agree with Rosterman- I think it will be Kepler. And I wouldn't be surprised if Park goes down for a month to see if Vargas can get hot. No reason not to try that.

[d-mac]

 

 

Now if we look at his APPY League stats (remember he is transitioning to wooden bats), he OPS'd .934 with a K/BB of 0.74, ISO of .195, with a BABIP of .330. To me this tells me that the level of competition in the ACC is greater than the competition in the ACC and the competition in the B1G is only slightly less than that of the B1G.  

 

I meant Appy League here, whoops. lol