What About - Trade Sano, Keep Plouffe?

[TheLeviathan]

Reusse has made it clear he doesn't like Sano at some personal level since spring training.  And he doesn't appear to have much of any basis for it.

[Vanimal46]

 

Reusse has made it clear he doesn't like Sano at some personal level since spring training.  And he doesn't appear to have much of any basis for it.

Yeah it's very strange... Started out with his ST column of "Young Sano has growing up to do" relating to his "attitude problems". I don't get it. 

[Guest]

Watching the Sports Show on 23CW last night and there was talk about Sano having a bad attitude (weight issues, hanging out with friends at DR REsorts when he should've been shagging fly balls in Fort Myers . . . ).   Sano probably has more trade value than Plouffe.   Trading him could light a fire under Sano, leading to years of regrets by Twins Fans complaining about the "bad trade".  However, that doesn't mean Sano would have gotten it accomplished here.  Plouffe is a solid major leaguer with a good attitude.  Other teams trade the prospect and keep the solid veteran.  Why not the Twins?  Just a thought!!!!

Was Sano's agent the source for this idea?

[S.]

Not only would it be idiotic to trade Sano, it'd be even more idiotic to think TR would manage to come out on top in that trade. 

[Guest]

In other words, they discussed Sano's attitude but not the trade option. They were considering a demotion to AAA

Let's go down memory lane.

 

David Ortiz: bad attitude, not in good shape.

Kent Hrbek: needs to be more serious about conditioning.

Kirby: jokes about shape.

Carlos Gomez: wacky, hard to coach.

Bert Blyleven: difficult, trouble maker.

Scott Baker: bad attitude, won't suck it up (right before career ending surgery).

Torii Hunter: fights with teammates.

Rod Carew: attitude problems.

Joe Mauer (circa 2006): needs to develop more strength.

Francisco Liriano: hard to coach.

Johan Santana: publicly criticized management.

 

Matt Tolbert: good guy, battles his tail off.

Mike Pelfrey: stand-up guy, good in clubhouse.

[Hambino the Great]

If that happened I would want every single member of the front office tested for crack.

[Shaitan]

Souhan and Reusse don't deserve responses. But they exist soley to get them.

[notoriousgod71]

Funny, because this contracts everything Mientkiewicz has said about Sano.

 

I was in favor of Mientkiewicz getting the managerial job in the first place, but the way every single one of these young guys are struggling is more evidence to me that he should have been given the job and hopefully will get the job soon.

[Mr. Brooks]

I was happy to see that LENIII made sure to state unequivocally, in his chat today, that Sano is not a toxic attitude and is a really good kid.

[jud6312]

You know how when women work and/or live together for a really long time their cycles sync up? I feel like this is what's happening with The Sports Show crew. But instead of their menses, Sid's senility is filtering throughout that gaggle of blowhards.

 

The only thing worse than the beat writers in this town are the veteran columnists - especially Patrick Reusse. Once he hears "from a little birdie" (to borrow another hack's catchphrase) that something isn't done how Rich Rollins would've done it, he gets tighty ultra-absorbent whiteys in a bunch and won't shut up about it until someone doesn't do things exactly the way Carl Eller did them.

 

Hopefully this town's sports sections will be in better hands when the elders finally decide they can't handle those damn kids on their lawn anymore.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

The poor attitude, work ethic criticism has to stop.  Personally I find it to be more of a stereotype than anything concrete. 

 

If this were a veteran (Non-Latin) player there would be no concerns.  He spend a portion of his off-season on vacation.  So did every other player in baseball.  He shouldn't have had to spend it shagging fly balls because he shouldn't have been put in that position to begin with. 

 

He is 22 years old and ultra talented.  No way he is traded.  If they did that I would just quit being a Twins fan.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. 

[notoriousgod71]

 

Not only would it be idiotic to trade Sano, it'd be even more idiotic to think TR would manage to come out on top in that trade. 

 

 

Chris Denorfia would be a good guess as to our trade target. Or Jon Jay. Or Jose Tabata.

[Jham]

We have 11 wins.  No one in the organization should be untouchable.  Another thread hosted spirited debate over whether having Trout, Miggy, and Sano on the same team could make this team a contender.  The response of most was similar to the response of most in this thread: "No" with no further explanation.  

I'm not saying I'd trade Sano, but it seems silly to say "no" or "hell no" without having any idea of what the return would be.  If we can get 3-4 good players, 2 with star potential, and one a burgeoning ace, I agree in 2 heartbeats.  

To those who believe he is a generational talent, I will ask for evidence of such.  He will be judged against Harper, Trout, Correia, Altuve, Stanton, and Bryant among others.  What indications are there that he will be better than them?  What indication is there that he will be even "as good as"?  I don't think the "categorical: no" people are setting a realistic floor and ceiling for Sano, and there are starting to be serious doubts as to when, if, and for how much that ceiling will be reached.

 

[jimmer]

 

Watching the Sports Show on 23CW last night and there was talk about Sano having a bad attitude (weight issues, hanging out with friends at DR REsorts when he should've been shagging fly balls in Fort Myers . . . ).   Sano probably has more trade value than Plouffe.   Trading him could light a fire under Sano, leading to years of regrets by Twins Fans complaining about the "bad trade".  However, that doesn't mean Sano would have gotten it accomplished here.  Plouffe is a solid major leaguer with a good attitude.  Other teams trade the prospect and keep the solid veteran.  Why not the Twins?  Just a thought!!!!

A lot of this reminds me of the Ortiz trade.  I very much doubt Ortiz because Big Papi with us, but I sure don't want Sano killing us from the DH position for another team for the next 15-20 years.

[jimmer]

 

We have 11 wins.  No one in the organization should be untouchable.  Another thread hosted spirited debate over whether having Trout, Miggy, and Sano on the same team could make this team a contender.  The response of most was similar to the response of most in this thread: "No" with no further explanation.  

I'm not saying I'd trade Sano, but it seems silly to say "no" or "hell no" without having any idea of what the return would be.  If we can get 3-4 good players, 2 with star potential, and one a burgeoning ace, I agree in 2 heartbeats.  

To those who believe he is a generational talent, I will ask for evidence of such.  He will be judged against Harper, Trout, Correia, Altuve, Stanton, and Bryant among others.  What indications are there that he will be better than them?  What indication is there that he will be even "as good as"?  I don't think the "categorical: no" people are setting a realistic floor and ceiling for Sano, and there are starting to be serious doubts as to when, if, and for how much that ceiling will be reached.

IMO, he has the ability to be an outstanding HITTER, but to me a generational talent needs to at least be able to field his position somewhat well.  

[DaveW]

 

A lot of this reminds me of the Ortiz trade.  I very much doubt Ortiz because Big Papi with us, but I sure don't want Sano killing us from the DH position for another team for the next 15-20 years.

FWIW Ortiz wasn't traded. He was simply non tendered, which makes the blunder that much worse.

[jokin]

 

IMO, he has the ability to be an outstanding HITTER, but to me a generational talent needs to at least be able to field his position somewhat well.  

 

Though we may never know for sure, he's actually been pretty decent at 3rd coming up in the minors. I would think he would be able to physically play the position more than adequately until he nears 30 years of age (his body-type is most definitely on a straight path to full-time DH, sooner or later).

[jimmer]

 

FWIW Ortiz wasn't traded. He was simply non tendered, which makes the blunder that much worse.

yeah, I was really referring to just him moving on and being great and just mis-wrote how that happened.  The point is the same, but thanks for the correction.

[jimmer]

 

Though we may never know for sure, he's actually been pretty decent at 3rd coming up in the minors. I would think he would be able to physically play the position more than adequately until he nears 30 years of age (his body-type is most definitely on a straight path to full-time DH, sooner or later).

Are you judging his minor league defense by fielding %?

 

I don't know.  He looks very good when coming in on slow rollers, but his lateral is bad, IMO.  I think when even the Twins are going out of their way not to play him there, that tells us something.  Look how long it took them to come to the conclusion with Plouffe, Santana, Casilla and Dozier about shortstop. 

[DaveW]

 

yeah, I was really referring to just him moving on and being great and just mis-wrote how that happened.  The point is the same, but thanks for the correction.

I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything FYI.
At least if it was a trade you can excuse them kind of for trying to "improve" the team, but when they non tendered Ortiz he already had 30+ HR full season power.

 

Man how awesome would this team have been with Mauer, Morneau and Ortiz in the middle of the lineup?!? One player doesn't win a championship, but I have to think the Twins at least make a world series if Ortiz stayed with them for 5-7 more years.

[jimmer]

 

I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything FYI.
At least if it was a trade you can excuse them kind of for trying to "improve" the team, but when they non tendered Ortiz he already had 30+ HR full season power.

 

Man how awesome would this team have been with Mauer, Morneau and Ortiz in the middle of the lineup?!? One player doesn't win a championship, but I have to think the Twins at least make a world series if Ortiz stayed with them for 5-7 more years.

I didn't think for a second you were trying to be snarky buddy. I appreciate the fix.  

 

But to the point about M and M with O (would we have called them Mom? :-)), I really doubt if Ortiz becomes the player he is if he stayed.

[Mr. Brooks]

We have 11 wins. No one in the organization should be untouchable. Another thread hosted spirited debate over whether having Trout, Miggy, and Sano on the same team could make this team a contender. The response of most was similar to the response of most in this thread: "No" with no further explanation.

 

I'm not saying I'd trade Sano, but it seems silly to say "no" or "hell no" without having any idea of what the return would be. If we can get 3-4 good players, 2 with star potential, and one a burgeoning ace, I agree in 2 heartbeats.

 

To those who believe he is a generational talent, I will ask for evidence of such. He will be judged against Harper, Trout, Correia, Altuve, Stanton, and Bryant among others. What indications are there that he will be better than them? What indication is there that he will be even "as good as"? I don't think the "categorical: no" people are setting a realistic floor and ceiling for Sano, and there are starting to be serious doubts as to when, if, and for how much that ceiling will be reached.

Serious doubts??

You have got to be kidding me.

Most prospects his age are still learning AA, and look at the mlb numbers he's already put up!

You should be ecstatic that we actually have one of these prospects putting up numbers, and at such a young age.

Man, the expectations are crazy around here sometimes.

[Mr. Brooks]

Those questioning his defense, do you guys realize he's NEVER played out their in his life?

 

It's not that easy to go play a new position for the very first time at this level.

 

When Cuddyer was tried at second base, and was awful, fans and the team just raved about how great of a teammate he was for playing out of position, and not a peep about the quality of the defense.

Why is Sano treated so much differently?

[jimmer]

 

Those questioning his defense, do you guys realize he's NEVER played out their in his life?

It's not that easy to go play a new position for the very first time at this level.

When Cuddyer was tried at second base, and was awful, fans and the team just raved about how great of a teammate he was for playing out of position, and not a peep about the quality of the defense.
Why is Sano treated so much differently?

I'm talking about 3B, haven't mentioned where he normally plays for us currently.  I'm not allowed to talk about that.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm talking about 3B, haven't mentioned where he normally plays for us currently. I'm not allowed to talk about that.

Well the few times I've seen him play 3B he's looked just fine to me.

The fact the Twins insist he can't means nothing to me, considering their incompetence in so many other areas.

[jimmer]

 

Well the few times I've seen him play 3B he's looked just fine to me.
The fact the Twins insist he can't means nothing to me, considering their incompetence in so many other areas.

and to me, he's looked good when coming in on balls and bad going lateral. So we are in disagreement. I think DH is his ultimate position, and since he plays in the AL and DH is a requirement, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Mr. Brooks]

and to me, he's looked good when coming in on balls and bad going lateral. So we are in disagreement. I think DH is his ultimate position, and since he plays in the AL and DH is a requirement, there's nothing wrong with that.

His lateral stiffness isn't so terrible that he couldn't play 3B acceptably for a few years.

I'd guess he'd rank in the bottom half of 3b across the league, but I don't think he'd be flat out worse than every other 3b in baseball.

[jimmer]

 

His lateral stiffness isn't so terrible that he couldn't play 3B acceptably for a few years.
I'd guess he'd rank in the bottom half of 3b across the league, but I don't think he'd be flat out worse than every other 3b in baseball.

I have this thing about defense where I don't like our players to have the defense capability barometer of 'not the worst in his league at his position'. I like the bar a bit higher than that.

[Mr. Brooks]

I have this thing about defense where I don't like our players to have the defense capability barometer of 'not the worst in his league at his position'. I like the bar a bit higher than that.

I'm with you but Sano's bat will play anywhere, and Park and Mauer have 1B and DH locked up for at least 2 more years.

So, that only leaves RF or 3B.

I'd rather see him at the position he's played for 4 years in the minors.

[jimmer]

 

I'm with you but Sano's bat will play anywhere, and Park and Mauer have 1B and DH locked up for at least 2 more years.
So, that only leaves RF or 3B.
I'd rather see him at the position he's played for 4 years in the minors.

People say that, but it's not always true.  Often it isn't.

 

As good as Braun's bat was as a rookie, they benched Braun in the late innings for the last month and couldn't wait to move him out of the IF.  Cabrera has been moved to different spots, as was Pujols. Those are three great bats and their teams decided they shouldn't play a more premium position even with their bats. I don't think they were wrong, myself.

 

In any event, unfortunately, the Twins did something and also didn't do something that makes your wish a real issue. That's on the FO.