Reusse: Sano has some growing up to do

[TheLeviathan]

Apparently we just can't have nice things.  That's the bottom line to this - gotta find some way to tear it down if we start getting glimpses of greatness.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Yeah ... I see a lot of that in other places.

ISWYDT 

[twinsnorth49]

 

I guess I understand your position now that you have added the perspective above.  This is hardly a measure of a substantial effort.   Is this really what you think amounts to “putting your money where your moth is”.  Giving up a weekend or two.   I have a number of colleagues and friends who have taken positions, especially leadership positions where it was necessary to put in 65-70/hrs week for the first few months or more and then work 60 hrs/week as the norm.  In these types of positions, you don’t get paid more, it comes with the responsibility. 

 

This is not an uncommon scenario.  Some of us also worked full-time while we spent 6-8 years in college and graduate school preparing for these roles.  Just in case it is not obvious, that equates to long stretches of working every night until midnight and most weekends so I know about putting my "money where my mouth is" and the premise of giving up a couple weeks being a sacrifice is so ridiculous it is beyond words.

 

So, Yes, I would think there are quite a few people who would consider eating properly and staying in shape to be a very modest effort for a professional athlete who stands to make the equivalent of 4,000 years of wages for the average person.  I would add that the same group of people look at giving up a couple weeks of fun times as an extremely small sacrifice.

 

I love Sano and his potential which is why I find it so disappointing that he does not care enough about being great and his contribution to the team on defense to make the modest sacrifice to eat properly and work-out.  There are a whole lot of people in this country who are not professional athletes who do this simply to stay to healthy.

What does any of this have to do with Sano? This post is like a re-read of Reusse's article.

[Major League Ready]

 

What does any of this have to do with Sano? This post is like a re-read of Reusse's article.

It is relevant because there are many people with job responsibilities and job demands that make what Ruesse is expecting from Sano look incredibly modest.  There are also many people with very modest means who make sacrifices that make what Ruesse is expecting from Sano look trivial.

 

There are many people with responsibilities to their organization or family who look at this situation and see it in this way … If Sano, his representations, and the Twins discussed on off-season diet and conditioning program as reported, this situation is very easy to assess.  Sano failed to live up to his end of the agreement.  He did not lose any weight.  There was no injury reported that prevented him from working out.  Therefore, the most logical conclusion is he did not care enough about the commitment he made to the team.

 

What this has to do with Reusse’s article is that most people who have put forth considerable effort to succeed or simply provide for their family would view getting in shape as a very minor effort. Therefore that particular group would probably view this lack of effort where the potential financial gain is incredible as an immature act demonstrating a lack of commitment.

 

I obviously can’t speak for every individual with the burden of substantial responsibility but I can speak of thousands of interactions with said individuals.  They are likely to see this as very straight forward.  Everyone involved agreed to a plan.  The results are clear.  Sano’s physical condition has very little or no improvement.  We don’t have the results of a physical but the conclusion his conditioning has not improved is a really small reach in terms of the speculation generally applied on this site.  Had Sano put in the work and exercised the requisite dietary disciple this was not a particularly difficult outcome to achieve.  Therefore, Sano’s did not care enough about the commitment he made to the team to put forth the modest effort necessary to succeed.   I would add that the same group is very likely to see this as a lack of commitment to being great.

 

I suppose this is like anything else.  It’s pretty hard to understand what you have never experienced.  Therefore, it would be difficult for individuals that have never worked extremely hard and/or had enormous responsibility to understand where Ruesse is coming from.

[Major League Ready]

 

You are back to saying things that are just patently false. There is not one shred of evidence that supports your claim that he does not care about being great. You know absolutely nothing about how his offseason went.  You know nothing about how often he works out. You know nothing about what he eats.  

 

What we do know, is that he is a monster 22 year old who is still growing... and has a great chance to be one of the best hitters in the American League this year

Did he lose any weight?  The answer is no.  How is that not evidence he did not do what is necessary?

 

Do you think that if a 270 pound athlete work out a demonstrate reasonable dietary discipline he would not lose weight.  Do you think the Sano for some reason an exception because there is obviously countless examples of other athletes, including Kennys Vargas and other members of the team this year.  Phil Hughes already has a big contract as does Nolasco.  They both reported in considerably better shape and they really don't have any financial incentive.

 

Do you the statement made by the FO saying the Twins, had met with Sano and his representation and that they all agreed to an off-season program and plan to lose weight was a lie? 

 

He failed to reach the set goals.  This is crystal clear unless you believe the front office lied about having discussed this with Sano. Even if there was no agreement, I don't know how anyone could suggest that Sano, his career, and the team would be better off if he managed his weight.  As far as evidence and assumption goes, this is an extremely small leap in comparison to many assumptions and conclusions put forth on this site.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

Again 10 pounds is being made out to be a character issue. And it utterly ignores the much bigger character strengths of this young man all to portray him as lazy without the drive to be great.

 

There shouldn't be any Twins fan that lines up to support that kind of nonsense. The freaking kid lost his own child and played his $&* off to come back from injury. I want that kind of heart, screw the 10 pounds. That's cheap hit piece garbage.

 

Go Miguel Sano. I hope he ignores anyone that buys into this claptrap.

[spinowner]

Once John Kruk was asked if he was in good shape. He said, "To run a marathon, no. To play baseball, yes."

[twinsnorth49]

 

 

 

I suppose this is like anything else.  It’s pretty hard to understand what you have never experienced.  Therefore, it would be difficult for individuals that have never worked extremely hard and/or had enormous responsibility to understand where Ruesse is coming from.

The irony of this as it pertains to a dirt poor Dominican kid who fought, worked and persevered all the way to the brink of becoming a MLB star and raise his family out of crushing poverty is so thick I couldn't cut it with a machete.

 

Judgement is such a wonderful trait.

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Reusse is a really talented writer, whether we like what he writes, or not.

 

But for the next couple seasons I think he should stop writing on baseball. No more baseball writing. The Strib already has other baseball writers. The editors should move him to another section until the other baseball writers leave. Perhaps theater critic. It makes a lot of sense. Reusse's a talented writer, right? Knows how to use words, so it shouldn't matter what he writes about. He should do just fine as a theater critic. So what if he's been a very good sports writer his whole career. No more. And no complaining. Your editors were right to do this, so commit yourself. Show people you care. If you don't succeed, it's on you, Patrick. No one else. Also, get on a nutrition program and lose some weight.

[DaveW]

 

The irony of this as it pertains to a dirt poor Dominican kid who fought, worked and persevered all the way to the brink of becoming a MLB star and raise his family out of crushing poverty is so thick I couldn't cut it with a machete.

 

Judgement is such a wonderful trait.

This times 1,000.

 

This isn't exactly an Eli Manning or Johnny Manziel situation where the guy grew up with every single advantage in the world.

Sano was born into a situation/poverty that frankly the majority of people can't understand/relate too. He worked innnnnccredibly hard to get where he has. He has done all the right things thus far, both on and off the field, he has overcome multiple tough situations and hasn't complained once. And yet people are ready to throw that all away because he is according to them "Too lazy to lose 10 pounds", while not even acknowledging that perhaps he really isn't able to lose 10 pounds (since he is still growing) without sacrificing power.

 

Would you rather have a Sano that is 270lbs and hits 40 HR, or a Sano who is 255 lbs, loses a bit of muscle power (30 HR) but maybe is able to leg out one more double?

[Major League Ready]

 

The irony of this as it pertains to a dirt poor Dominican kid who fought, worked and persevered all the way to the brink of becoming a MLB star and raise his family out of crushing poverty is so thick I couldn't cut it with a machete.

 

Judgement is such a wonderful trait.

My first question is extremely simple....  

Did he come to camp in better shape?   I think we can all agree he did not.

 

Therefore, why should we give him a pass?

 

1. Do you think being in better shape is good for an athlete in terms of performance and avoiding injury?

 

2. Do you think the twins, Sano, and his representations had the reported conversation about conditioning in the off-season or did the FO make it up.

 

3. Did he fail to live up to his commitment if #2 occurred?  I think once again this can't be disputed by a reasonable party.

 

4. Is it unreasonable to suggest that it would be beneficial to a professional athlete who obviously has a challenge with the mass of his body and continuing to gain weight to manage his diet and work out in a way that maintains a more ideal physique? 

 

5. For those of us who are not professional athletes, what happens when someone ignores their commitments and shows-up unprepared. 

[jimmer]

 

The irony of this as it pertains to a dirt poor Dominican kid who fought, worked and persevered all the way to the brink of becoming a MLB star and raise his family out of crushing poverty is so thick I couldn't cut it with a machete.

 

Judgement is such a wonderful trait.

Thank you!

 

While I agree he should have gotten in a bit better shape (maybe lose 20 LB, which isn't hard to do in 5 months), some of these comments are over the top.  

On top of that, a lot of this falls on the Twins for asking a guy that big to play OF to begin with (and not do so in the minors for a couple years, but in the majors right away).  Makes me sad how some can be so ruthless with the players who play the game we love (on the team we love), but defend the people who make some curious decisions so much. This may end up being our best player for years and years.  I wish him the best!

[ken]

Miguel Cabrera played only 3 games in the minors then 158 games in the majors at 21 and 134 games at 22 in the outfield.  He was also the same height and same size as Sano when signed.  If he fails because of his size, a lot of that responsibility should fall on Sano.  I don't think the Twins plan was to have him at 270 by the age of 22. 

 

He have the potential to be the next Cabrera, but getting there is not easy and his responsibility.

[spinowner]

I just can't get too worked up about Sano not losing the weight and whatever else Reusse and those who agree with him are concerned about. But I will say there's part of me that wants him to be the first player to hit 800 home runs, and to do that he has to be almost insanely driven in every aspect of his career. But if he can't be that way I'd settle for 700.

[DaveW]

This will be a fun thread to bump every time Sano hits a 450+ foot bomb while maintaining  a 900 OPS+

[Major League Ready]

 

This times 1,000.

 

This isn't exactly an Eli Manning or Johnny Manziel situation where the guy grew up with every single advantage in the world.

Sano was born into a situation/poverty that frankly the majority of people can't understand/relate too. He worked innnnnccredibly hard to get where he has. He has done all the right things thus far, both on and off the field, he has overcome multiple tough situations and hasn't complained once. And yet people are ready to throw that all away because he is according to them "Too lazy to lose 10 pounds", while not even acknowledging that perhaps he really isn't able to lose 10 pounds (since he is still growing) without sacrificing power.

 

Would you rather have a Sano that is 270lbs and hits 40 HR, or a Sano who is 255 lbs, loses a bit of muscle power (30 HR) but maybe is able to leg out one more double?

I think that premise is absolutely ridiculous.  Are you really going to stand behind the idea that if he lost fat he would lose power.  That an unfit athlete is better than a well conditioned athlete.  That's not a stretch.  It is preposterous.  So, before you defend this statement, answer this question.  Was he hitting absolute bombs when he was still 250 or less.  

 

This is a new level of absurd for me. 

[Major League Ready]

 

Thank you!

 

While I agree he should have gotten in a bit better shape (maybe lose 20 LB, which isn't hard to do in 5 months), some of these comments are over the top.  

On top of that, a lot of this falls on the Twins for asking a guy that big to play OF to begin with (and not do so in the minors for a couple years, but in the majors right away).  Makes me sad how some can be so ruthless with the players who play the game we love (on the team we love), but defend the people who make some curious decisions so much. This may end up being our best player for years and years.  I wish him the best!

You and others are completely missing the point.  He will be a great hitter regardless of the weight so that is not the point.  The weight, regardless of playing the OF or 3B is a problem.  It is an absolute waste have a 22 y/o with Sano's level of athleticism and a great arm relegated to DH only. 

 

As you said, losing 20 pounds in 5 months is not a difficult task.  Therefore, not getting the job done is a lack of effort and discipline.  He made a commitment to the team and then did not care enough about that commitment.

 

Don't give the sad back story about growing up in poverty either.  He will make the equivalent of what a hundred average Americans will make in their lifetimes over the course of a 15 year career as a DH.  It's not hard to come to the conclusion he just does not care enough about being a complete player to put in the work and/or manage his diet.

[Major League Ready]

 

You and others are completely missing the point.  He will be a great hitter regardless of the weight so that is not the point.  The weight, regardless of playing the OF or 3B is a problem.  It is an absolute waste have a 22 y/o with Sano's level of athleticism and a great arm relegated to DH only. 

 

As you said, losing 20 pounds in 5 months is not a difficult task.  Therefore, not getting the job done is a lack of effort and discipline.  He made a commitment to the team and then did not care enough about that commitment.

 

Growing up in poverty is not relevant either.  He will make the equivalent of what a hundred average Americans will make in their lifetimes over the course of a 15 year career regardless if he puts in the extra work to be a complete player.   I would think anyone would feel very financially secure in that position regardless of where they came from.  Caring enough about being a complete player to put in the work and/or manage his diet is an entirely different question. 

 

I guess the way it works here is that slamming management = good.  Calling out a great hitter to put in the work to be a great player = bad.

 

[TheLeviathan]

No, the problem is trashing a 22 year old on the basis of a bunch of flimsy nonsense.  With every post you inflate the amount of weight we're talking here.  

 

But by all means, tear the kid down.  I'm sure that will accomplish....something.  What and what value it has I'm completely lost on.

[Squirrel]

No, the problem is trashing a 22 year old on the basis of a bunch of flimsy nonsense.  With every post you inflate the amount of weight we're talking here.  

 

But by all means, tear the kid down.  I'm sure that will accomplish....something.  What and what value it has I'm completely lost on.

Slamming him in the press like that was bad. Just another reason to not read much by Reusse, and I don't. But I don't think it's exactly flimsy nonsense. Not being where he said he'd be doing what he said he'd be doing is symptomatic of needing to mature, IMO. But he's 22. What 22yr old male isn't in the need of some maturity? Just like potential needs to develop, so does this, but writing this kind of a piece is pointless and doesn't and won't change anything or help. Pointless journalism. Mostly, I'm not overly concerned about it for now. It will come.

[DaveW]

From what I know about Sano, maturity isn't an issue at all, he is more mature than most guys a decade older than him. How he handled adversity and tragedy is something we can all learn from.

Class act, all the way. I hope he not only hits 600+ bombs, but makes 400+ million in his career.

[jimmer]

 

You and others are completely missing the point.  He will be a great hitter regardless of the weight so that is not the point.  The weight, regardless of playing the OF or 3B is a problem.  It is an absolute waste have a 22 y/o with Sano's level of athleticism and a great arm relegated to DH only. 

 

As you said, losing 20 pounds in 5 months is not a difficult task.  Therefore, not getting the job done is a lack of effort and discipline.  He made a commitment to the team and then did not care enough about that commitment.

 

Don't give the sad back story about growing up in poverty either.  He will make the equivalent of what a hundred average Americans will make in their lifetimes over the course of a 15 year career as a DH.  It's not hard to come to the conclusion he just does not care enough about being a complete player to put in the work and/or manage his diet.

Yeah, not agreeing with the way a young guy is getting trashed by some media members and fans hardly equates to 'completely missing the point'.

[TheLeviathan]

I agree Chi, as I said earlier, if this truly is an issue it is best left to his friends, manager, and team officials to handle behind closed doors.

 

This serves absolutely no purpose but to rile up concerns over speculation while overlooking glaringly awesome things about what he has overcome.

[jimmer]

 

I agree Chi, as I said earlier, if this truly is an issue it is best left to his friends, manager, and team officials to handle behind closed doors.

This serves absolutely no purpose but to rile up concerns over speculation while overlooking glaringly awesome things about what he has overcome.

Twins make bad decision to put Sano in RF.  He shouldn't be in RF.  So now, instead of focusing on that, we should focus on how he it's really bad he didn't lose weight to try and make that ridiculous decision somewhat better?

 

He should have lost some weight for sure, but the problem is the decision to move a guy his size to the OF to begin with (especially since he's never played there).

 

Also, the AL has a DH (as we all know).  He should DH, regardless of how the team feels about putting a young guy there.  No matter where Sano plays, he'll be a detriment on defense, so let him hit.

[USAFChief]

Twins make bad decision to put Sano in RF. He shouldn't be in RF. So now, instead of focusing on that, we should focus on how he it' really bad he didn't lose weight to try and make that decision somewhat better. He should have lost some weight for sure, but the problem is the decision to move a guy his size to the OF (especially since he's never played there).

Whether or not it's a bad decision to move him to RF is completely separate from whether or not he bears some responsibility for preparing himself physically for a season. If he should have lost some weight, he should have lost weight.

 

Giving me a bad car to drive doesn't mean I don't need to maintain it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

But didn't he actually lose weight? I thought he did.

 

So are we complaining he didn't lose enough weight?

 

All of this seems ridiculous to me.

[jimmer]

 

Whether or not it's a bad decision to move him to RF is completely separate from whether or not he bears some responsibility for preparing himself physically for a season. If he should have lost some weight, he should have lost weight.

Giving me a bad car to drive doesn't mean I don't need to maintain it.

Yeah, I'm not sure you can separate the two because his weight has only just now become a serious point of discussion due to moving to the OF.  He didn't magically get this big.  He didn't put on 40 pounds during the offseason.  He was like this at the end of the season, when we kept being told how much of an athletic beast he is and how it's no problem and moving to OF will be no problem.  Now that reality has set in, now people want to slam him for his weight.  

 

He should lose weight, for sure, but the bile thrown at him for not doing so only really started after having his position switched.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But didn't he actually lose weight? I thought he did.

 

So are we complaining he didn't lose enough weight?

 

All of this seems ridiculous to me.

 

Depending upon the post he's supposedly gained somewhere between 20 and 600 pounds.

 

But, Gleeman sure seemed to think he had lost weight from the end of last year.  

[jimmer]

 

But didn't he actually lose weight? I thought he did.

 

So are we complaining he didn't lose enough weight?

 

All of this seems ridiculous to me.

He said he lost 5 pounds.  From 268 to 263.

[twinsnorth49]

 

.  It's not hard to come to the conclusion he just does not care enough about being a complete player to put in the work and/or manage his diet.

Especially when that conclusion has already been reached beforehand.